swap 1.9 for a 2.2

[jayhawkjesse33]

Well, the bug has finally gotten to me. I'm ready to make my GT go like it looks like it should...or at least closer than what it is now! I'm about to upgrade my GT from the stock 1.9 to a 2.2. I have called OGTS about a 2.2 and what all I will need to get to make this happen. I'm curious to know if anyone has gotten one from OGTS and how it went? how it runs? any additional advice?

Also, it appears that I'll have to get a new radiator to handle the extra heat from the 2.2. The one they have is 550 bucks....and if there is a different option out there that would work and be cheaper, then I'm all for hearing it.

[opelnut10]

OGTS has sold quite a few of those engines and I don't know of anyone that has had a problem (that they did not take care of) If you go that route, you are going to need more than a radiator. Such as a clutch to handle the extra torque and a 5 speed would be nice also. Look in the search for radiator swaps, someone used a Honda production one that worked out good and you can also buy a racing radiator for less than $500.

[jayhawkjesse33]

Well, I had a conversation or two with Gil from OGTS and I know that I'll need adapters for the intake and for the thermostat. I won't need the trans and clutch because I have an automatic.The radiator is the real issue for me. - have ran a couple of searches but didn't find much that didn't entail some fab work or that was much cheaper than the new aluminum one that I mentioned before.

I'm really just trying to gather as much info as possible before taking this on, both labor and financially speaking.

[gvy]

Hi,

I have a 2.2i in my GT and it even has a hot cam ( it is tuned)
I have always used my original radiator. I do not use the car very often, but there were never problems with this car running hot.
You can consider an electrical fan. Till now I didnt need it and the only reason i would consider it is the fact that an electrical fan only runs when needed.....

For sure it depends on the climate.

The 2.2 has a lot more torque so a bigger clutch is no luxe item.
Ones, when driving and spinning a bit wild and crazy, I wrecked the original clutch, infact the pressure plate .
It came out of balance and it cut my Getrag 5 speed housing almost in half, so the havy vibrations wrecked my startermotor to and so on........

Now i have a 240mm clutch and pressureplate from an Opel rekord 2.2i

I also did install the getrag 240 5 speed.
In my opinion this is not a must but a nice thing to have, because the 2.2i has lots of torque so it is nice to drive it at low RPM's.
The 4th gear ratio on the getrag is 1:1 so the same as the 4th gear of the original gearbox, but you have the fift gear (ratio 0.804) as some sort of overdrive ,ideal for easy cruising.

You should consider installing bigger brakes.
In front ,I mounted the original (double) ventilated discs 246mm and the calipers from an opel rekord 2.2i.
In the back i didnt change anything.
I did install the master cilinder of the opel rekord 2.2i



greets

Geert

[First opel 1981]

Originally Posted by jayhawkjesse33 Well, I had a conversation or two with Gil from OGTS and I know that I'll need adapters for the intake and for the thermostat. I won't need the trans and clutch because I have an automatic.The radiator is the real issue for me. - have ran a couple of searches but didn't find much that didn't entail some fab work or that was much cheaper than the new aluminum one that I mentioned before. I'm really just trying to gather as much info as possible before taking this on, both labor and financially speaking.

I was reading a few months back and remember that there was a radiator that fits pretty good. I t was aluminum and found new one on Ebay (aftermarket) for less than $150.
You might try searching for the thread here on OpelGT.com
The radiator was said to cool 30% better than a factory radiator, as I recall.

[Gumby]

Originally Posted by First opel 1981 I was reading a few months back and remember that there was a radiator that fits pretty good. I t was aluminum and found new one on Ebay (aftermarket) for less than $150. You might try searching for the thread here on OpelGT.com The radiator was said to cool 30% better than a factory radiator, as I recall.

There is a honda radiator that fits, just needs custom brackets to hold it in place (not complicated, nothing you couldn't make with some sheet metal, a vice, and a drill).

[CDN OpelNut]

Why not drive it with the original radiator for a while and see if you have an issue? I have a stock rad in my 2.4 and haven't had the slightest problem.

[GTJIM]

Since you have an auto trans fit a thermostatic bypass oil cooler on to the auto trans. It is important that the trans fluid still goes through the cooling coil in the bottom of the radiator (It warms the trans fluid up to operating temp!) but have a separate oil cooler that the trans fluid is shunted through by a thermostatic valve if it gets too hot - thus cutting down on the heat pumped into the water of the engine cooling radiator and keeping the auto trans fluid at operating temperature.

The 2.2 motors sometimes were fitted with a 4-speed Over Drive Nisin-Warner auto trans in the cars they were fitted to originally. I am trying to adapt an Isuzu Piazza auto trans of the same type to my 2.2 motor (2.0 with 2.2 crank) as the increased torque should drive the OD gear nicely!

[jayhawkjesse33]

Thats some great info and a helluva good outside the box thought! I just thought that the radiator would [I]have[I] to go since the motor was going in. I sometimes forget the OGTS is a business and may try the occasional up-sell...and as a business guy myself, I totally get it. And according to Gil at OGTS the auto trans is apparently a good fit/set-up for the 2.2....does anyone have any experience with that set-up?

Is there anything else that I should start preparing for or expecting, as far as changes go? I really wanna have all my ducks in a row before I do this and get in to it unprepared or too naive.

[First opel 1981]

Originally Posted by jayhawkjesse33 Thats some great info and a helluva good outside the box thought! I just thought that the radiator would [I]have[I] to go since the motor was going in. I sometimes forget the OGTS is a business and may try the occasional up-sell...and as a business guy myself, I totally get it. And according to Gil at OGTS the auto trans is apparently a good fit/set-up for the 2.2....does anyone have any experience with that set-up? Is there anything else that I should start preparing for or expecting, as far as changes go? I really wanna have all my ducks in a row before I do this and get in to it unprepared or too naive.

Doesn't the 2.2 have the same external dimensions as the 1.9? If so then the swap will be a piece of cake. Even if it isn't, the differences are minimal. I can't see any difficulties.

I would do the swap in a heartbeat if I had access to the cash to buy the motor and had a car worth putting it in. The one I have deserves body work before an engine upgrade.

[Anonymous D]

Because of the lower radiator fluid tank, the GT automatic transmission causes the car to run about 10-20 degrees hotter than comparable manual transmission installations. When additional cooling is needed for a performance application, its easiest to just install a denser 3-row core into the existing radiator housing, than to try to match a non-Opel radiator design to the GT's mounts. Typically, this can be done by a local radiator shop, although prices can vary widely (at the peak of the copper price bubble last year, some asking prices topped $500, which made an aluminum option comparably more feasible).

[michaedo]

Yeah, that's what I did. Go to a radiator shop and discuss
your needs. I got a three row core installed between the
stock tanks for something like 300 a couple years ago.

[opelenvy]

I also took a stock radiator recored to 4 core for $200.

[tekenaar]

Originally Posted by opelenvy Originally Posted by michaedo Yeah, that's what I did. Go to a radiator shop and discuss your needs. I got a three row core installed between the stock tanks for something like 300 a couple years ago. I also took a stock radiator recored to 4 core for $200.

. . . CA - $300, TX - $200 . . . sounds about right!

[jayhawkjesse33]

I already have an additional cooler mounted below my radiator for the trans fluid, so I think that I'll be fine with the stock radiator. At least I feel like I, and some others on here, feel like I would be. Now I hope nothing else pops up on the car before I get a chance to do this! The timing has been giving me a fit as of the past few weeks, but thats minor and I can deal with that. I've got electronic ignition on it, but the timing seems to vary after a few days/week of driving. I can really notice the difference when at idle when the car is in gear. I replaced the vacuum hose yesterday from the distributor to the carb and I could tell a difference with the amount of vacuum I am getting now compared to the past. But it still doesn't wanna seem to get timed right....and this is a problem that will hopefully only have to be dealt with until I purchase the new motor...

[tekenaar]

Originally Posted by jayhawkjesse33 I already have an additional cooler mounted below my radiator for the trans fluid, so I think that I'll be fine with the stock radiator. At least I feel like I, and some others on here, feel like I would be. Now I hope nothing else pops up on the car before I get a chance to do this! The timing has been giving me a fit as of the past few weeks, but thats minor and I can deal with that. I've got electronic ignition on it, but the timing seems to vary after a few days/week of driving. I can really notice the difference when at idle when the car is in gear. I replaced the vacuum hose yesterday from the distributor to the carb and I could tell a difference with the amount of vacuum I am getting now compared to the past. But it still doesn't wanna seem to get timed right....and this is a problem that will hopefully only have to be dealt with until I purchase the new motor...

Have you checked the vacuum advance/retard canister for leaks (ruptured diaphragms)?

[jayhawkjesse33]

Well, I did it. I called OGTS and ordered the 2.2 along with a few other things. Such as the new oil pan assembly, the heavy duty torque tubes to stop the knocking on take-off, a new electric fuel pump, new motor mounts and of course all the adapters and gaskets needed for this. It is scheduled to ship next week and the transplant date is set for July 11th. Couldn't be more pumped up for it.

If there is any suggestions from people that have done this swap, please feel free to offer some advice.

Thanks as always

Eric

[opelspyder]

I purchased a 2.2 this year for a project from GTSource. The engine came well crated. I also bought a 5 speed. I decided to take the engine apart to take a look, it all looked good, except the coolant passage from the head to the timing cover was almost fully plugged, I decided to go further. I was later told that the 2.2 didn't rely on that head port for coolant flow. Number 2 cylinder was border line on the wear, so I am having pistons made. Now don't get me wrong, the engine would have been fine, but I have to back it up as well, so I had to make sure everything was going to be right. A few options on the induction. Run factory fuel injection, order sidedraft manifolds and run dual carbs, or modify the 1.9 intake to fit the raised port head, which doesn't look to be a big deal. I would purchase another one, or find a 2.2 crank and stroke a 1.9

[RallyBob]

Originally Posted by opelspyder I decided to take the engine apart to take a look, it all looked good, except the coolant passage from the head to the timing cover was almost fully plugged, I decided to go further. I was later told that the 2.2 didn't rely on that head port for coolant flow.

Keith, this is in fact the case. The coolant passage between the thermostat and the timing cover is dead-ended on the 2.2 head. Since there's no flow through this area, coolant stagnates here. In standard form all the bypassing occurs in the thermostat housing, so if you should decide to utilize an adapted 1.9 thermostat housing on the 2.2 head, the blocked passage in the head should be drilled out in order to allow for some coolant bypass when the engine is warming up (and the thermostat is still closed).

HTH,
Bob

[tekenaar]

Originally Posted by RallyBob Keith, this is in fact the case. The coolant passage between the thermostat and the timing cover is dead-ended on the 2.2 head. Since there's no flow through this area, coolant stagnates here. In standard form all the bypassing occurs in the thermostat housing, so if you should decide to utilize an adapted 1.9 thermostat housing on the 2.2 head, the blocked passage in the head should be drilled out in order to allow for some coolant bypass when the engine is warming up (and the thermostat is still closed). HTH, Bob

. . . same thing with all '75 FI 1.9 engines imported here, only it's done at the "double action T-stat", 3-hose thermostat housing. When I rebuilt my '69 1.9 sprint engine using the '75 FI T-stat housing, I tapped that hole in the head and "flush" installed an allen plug to prevent any possibility of leaks at the FI T-stat block off area forward of the front mounting bolt!

The later 2.4 water pump that came with my 2.4 long block does not have this relief hole drilled either, BTW.

[jayhawkjesse33]

I've been doing some serious reading through some old threads and I started wondering if getting a new cam for this motor would be a good idea as well. I've seen this one on OGTS:

CAMSHAFT
HP "Combination" .430" lift, 268 duration, solid or hydraulic grind. 1.9L-2.4L. Good for street and autocross applications.

Is this something that would be smart to put on as well? What type of benefits could I see from this? And fyi, I plan on keeping the 32/36 weber carb and my automatic transmission.

[RallyBob]

Originally Posted by jayhawkjesse33 I've been doing some serious reading through some old threads and I started wondering if getting a new cam for this motor would be a good idea as well. I've seen this one on OGTS: CAMSHAFT HP "Combination" .430" lift, 268 duration, solid or hydraulic grind. 1.9L-2.4L. Good for street and autocross applications. Is this something that would be smart to put on as well? What type of benefits could I see from this? And fyi, I plan on keeping the 32/36 weber carb and my automatic transmission.

FWIW, I would strongly recommend a custom cam grind if you are going to replace it at all. First of all, 2.2's can use more valve lift (if you are using the 2.2 head I mean) since they flow at higher valve lifts than the 1.9 head. The stock 2.2 valve springs are also not limited to .430" or so, but rather they only begin to bind at about .475", so you might as well take advantage of that fact.

Here's the clincher though....all the Isky cams for Opels are ground with a 110° lobe separation angle. A 2.2 prefers a 112° for street use, and with an automatic, this is especially the case! Otherwise the car will 'creep' at idle with a stock torque converter. I'd even consider 114° LSA for an automatic-equipped 2.2.

[jayhawkjesse33]

Bob,

I appreciate the info, however, it was way over my head. I am a pretty big novice when it comes to the inner workings of the motor and the cam specs are nearly a foreign language for me.

So, to make it more clear for me.

What should I expect from the complete stock 2.2 going in, coupled with my aforementioned Weber and the auto trans? Will this "creep" as you put it? And could you define "creeping at idle"? And is a new cam on my set-up a necessity in your opinion?

I really appreciate the help. I want to do this right the first time...and be thrilled with the difference in my car that I'm hoping to get from this swap. I really am not sure what to expect at this point in all honesty!

[RallyBob]

Originally Posted by jayhawkjesse33 What should I expect from the complete stock 2.2 going in, coupled with my aforementioned Weber and the auto trans? Will this "creep" as you put it? And could you define "creeping at idle"? And is a new cam on my set-up a necessity in your opinion?

Virtually any cam bigger than stock will cause some slight issues with creeping when used with an automatic tranny. I'm sure you've experienced a high idle (cold engine, on choke) before, and putting a tranny in gear...the resulting 'thunk' is hard on the driveline, and you have to keep your foot on the brakes otherwise the high idle speed alone is enough for the car to drive down the road!

With any 'bigger' camshaft the idle speed will need to be set higher, so the result will be the same. My recommendations would alleviate much of this problem.

[gvy]

Some things to consider:

first.
I would use the original cam . I have a "hot" cam on my 2.2i. My car has more power and does higher revs easily, but I don't have the smoothness of a stock 2.2i
If you stay with the automatic transmission don't even consider a "hotter" cam

second.
The cih 2.2i is originally only build with an LE jetronic injection. It runs good with that.
Is the head of your 2.2 the original one or is it a modified 2.0 head?
You should know that the in and outlet ports on the original 2.2i head are not positioned the same as on the 2.0 or 1.9 head!!!!

for example : the jetronic induction manifold of a 2.0 injection does not fit an 2.2i and vice versa.
May be you should ask OGTS if the intakemanifold of your carb will fit the 2.2 head.

Geert