2.4L power

[wrench459]

So what's the true Rear Wheel H/P(SAE+-5%) of a plain jane 1969 1.9S with a manual trans(fluids warm),sea level,ambient 75 degrees F, baro 29.90,205-60-13 tires inflated@30 psi, good state of tune...
Me thinks Mr. Adam fudged just a tad bit

And just for grins whats the H/P loss from a Getrag trans?

Come on guy's the only power that matters is the one planted to the ground.

Just my opinion

[RallyBob]

Originally Posted by wrench459 So what's the true Rear Wheel H/P(SAE+-5%) of a plain jane 1969 1.9S with a manual trans(fluids warm),sea level,ambient 75 degrees F, baro 29.90,205-60-13 tires inflated@30 psi, good state of tune...

Anywhere from 58-75 rear wheel HP, depending on the engine's condition and state of tune. Big range for sure, but that's why some cars can barely break 100 mph and others can go right past 115.

And just for grins whats the H/P loss from a Getrag trans?

I've had a couple of Opels on a Mustang dyno and both had Getrags. There was a 14-14.5% driveline loss according to the operator.

[wrench459]

Originally Posted by RallyBob I've had a couple of Opels on a Mustang dyno and both had Getrags. There was a 14-14.5% driveline loss according to the operator.

As you know the loss is not linear at all..
Interesting I'll need to dig into the differences between the dynojet and the mustang.

[Redskinsjbs]

Well, if you ever gain the ability to magically create 10 times the power that can currently be made out of a 2.4L NA engine, give me a call.

A guy I am friends with owns an engine shop where he is currently building a 1500+ hp engine dyno. I'm helping, and when I say that I mean he stand behind me and tells me to screw in what things and connect what wires. It uses a hydraulic brake and a force gauge along with some maths to figure out the engine's torque.

Oh Oh Oh, I am writing him a flash actionscript to take all of the raw data and display it in pretty dials and graphs and whatnot.

[wrench459]

Jay
If it's a dynojet there's a software upgrade to 2K H/P.
I think it's 7.5.2 WinPEP7.

[Redskinsjbs]

Cool, I'll look in to that. I say 1500 Hp because that was the biggest engine that I had seen at the shop. I know that he has built some pure nitrous and kerosene engines for dragsters that may be higher than that.

What I think is most impressive is the room that was built for it. It has it's own temperature and huidity control, and it can exchange all of the air in the room in under 6 seconds. Also, the walls are sound absorbing, so the dB level with the door closed and everything off is ~26 dB. When you think that the sound of atoms moving about makes the quiestest possible sound ~23 db, it is pretty darn quiet in that room.

[yellowstorm.racing]

Originally Posted by wrench459 Come on guy's the only power that matters is the one planted to the ground. Just my opinion

Yes , of course! But this will be different, each day, each hour or run. So for the papers it is usualy to take the enginepower under reproductable (is this word existing???) conditions.

regards Jörg

[RallyBob]

Originally Posted by wrench459 As you know the loss is not linear at all.. Interesting I'll need to dig into the differences between the dynojet and the mustang.

I concur with that. One engine tested was 108 whp, the other was 114 whp. I suspect the higher hp number showed the higher percentage loss...I can't recall however. Heat and friction changes (increases) when the power goes up!

[opelgtmaster3]

is the 2.4l from opelgtsoucre the same as the 2.4 manta 400 ralley phase 2? are they the same blocks?

thanks guys

[opelwasp]

Uh, no. They are from Opel Omega A's and Frontera's.

[ant0ny]

I am after some suggestions to solve a problem I have building a replica. In the mid '80's Opel build 4 Opel Kadett 4x4 rally cars also know as the Vaxhall Astra 4S. These cars where then shelved due to the Group S being scrapped.

As far as I can tell they ran one car with the Manta 400 engine with a Supercharger and 2 cars without and a 4th with a Ford engine build by Zakspeed that was turbo.

I would like to build the Supercharged Manta 400 engine but I assume to build the original it would be impossible now.

After reading many forums and threads I think there seems to be only more confusion.

From what I have read the clossest I could get to building this engine from bits.
This would be a Opel 2.0S CIH block (bored out) with a 3.0L 24v Omega head cut down (Risse do this for about 1000 Euro).

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.j...h_16v_head.htm

Risse Motorsport: Aktive Erfahrung aus dem Motorsport für Ihren Opel!

Risse Motorsport: Aktive Erfahrung aus dem Motorsport fr Ihren Opel!

I am hoping the C24NE block might take the 3.0L 24v Omega head cut down.

Does anyone have any knowlege of this... any ideas or thoughts?

[wrench459]

Have you looked at this site? opeltuners

[RallyBob]

Originally Posted by ant0ny I am after some suggestions to solve a problem I have building a replica. In the mid '80's Opel build 4 Opel Kadett 4x4 rally cars also know as the Vaxhall Astra 4S. These cars where then shelved due to the Group S being scrapped. As far as I can tell they ran one car with the Manta 400 engine with a Supercharger and 2 cars without and a 4th with a Ford engine build by Zakspeed that was turbo. I would like to build the Supercharged Manta 400 engine but I assume to build the original it would be impossible now.

Not impossible to find, but pricey. Original Cosworth-headed DOHC 16V Opel engines still exist out there, but they are expensive to buy, and more expensive to modify. About 400 were built for the Ascona 400, and from what I understand another 1200 were built for the Manta 400, plus spares.

However the cut-down 3.0 litre 24V-headed conversion to a CN24 block would certainly be able to produce the power levels you need, and then some.

For those forum members who don't know what the car looked like, here's a few pics. I've also wanted to build a replica since the cars were new, but finding a longitudinal-mount true AWD system in the US is nearly impossible without selling an arm and a leg.

Basically the car is a wide-body Opel Kadett GSE with a fore-aft mounted Manta 400 engine (plans were to utilize a turbo eventually, but a supercharger was used for testing and for a Dakar rally attempt), and all wheel drive. Same basic body as the Korean-built 1988-1993 Pontiac Lemans. It would have been one of the most high-tech Group B rally cars out there if it had been completed.

[ant0ny]

Originally Posted by RallyBob ... However the cut-down 3.0 litre 24V-headed conversion to a CN24 block would certainly be able to produce the power levels you need, and then some...

Did you mean the C24NE block?

Have you seen any documentation regarding this combination or anyone know of someone who has built one?

Antony

[RallyBob]

Originally Posted by ant0ny Did you mean the C24NE block?

That's the one.

Have you seen any documentation regarding this combination or anyone know of someone who has built one? Antony

None I know of in the US, but the swap is fairly common in Europe. As mentioned Risse sells complete engine packages, as do other companies.

I've heard of power claims in the area of 330 hp for a competition engine (no forced induction), so ironically they are making nearly the same power as the Kadett 400 supercharged prototypes!

The Opeltuners site is a good start, and as well the German Hecktriebler forum might be a good place too...but since I don't speak German I would not have good luck finding out myself!

[ant0ny]

Thanks rallybob I am trying to tick off boxes before I build this car and you may have found yourself trying to sperate fact from fiction on the net can be such a minefield.

Yeah speaking German should be the first thing for any person who decides to modify an Opel.

FYI: here is my other Opel project finished.

http://www.thor.pointclark.net/Dirtsprint_08.jpg
http://www.thor.pointclark.net/Kadett_side.jpg
http://thor.pointclark.net/inlet_manifold_5.jpg
http://www.thor.pointclark.net/Kadett_side.jpg
http://www.thor.pointclark.net/Kadett_inside_d.jpg
http://www.thor.pointclark.net/Kadett_rear_inside.jpg



Current specs

C20XE 16v Calibra engine.

Standard bottom end with ARP Conrod bolts.
Standard head and cams.
Handmade Induction Manifold
4mm oversize Throttle body
4 to 1 Extractors Ceramic Coated
LINK Ecu G3
Aftermarket fuel regulator
Power Cap

155HP at wheels

Gearbox

F16

Hewland close ratio gearset
4.8:1 Crown wheel & pinion
Quaife ATB diff

[RallyBob]

Originally Posted by ant0ny FYI: here is my other Opel project finished. http://www.thor.pointclark.net/Dirtsprint_08.jpg

Neat stuff! Looks like a 'Kadett Cup' rallycar from back in the day.

How's the Quaife in the gravel? I've heard mixed reviews, most folks prefer a plate-type diff for loose surfaces.

I used to crew for a Golf rally car w/Quaife dogbox and diff and it had horrible grip. A switch to a proper plate diff cured that, as well when a halfshaft broke it was still driveable from the stages. With the Quaife a broken halfshaft leaves you stranded!

[wrench459]

I noticed your using an aftermarket fuel regulator.
Guessing Bosch injectors. What size are you using?

[ant0ny]

Originally Posted by RallyBob Neat stuff! Looks like a 'Kadett Cup' rallycar from back in the day. How's the Quaife in the gravel? I've heard mixed reviews, most folks prefer a plate-type diff for loose surfaces. I used to crew for a Golf rally car w/Quaife dogbox and diff and it had horrible grip. A switch to a proper plate diff cured that, as well when a halfshaft broke it was still driveable from the stages. With the Quaife a broken halfshaft leaves you stranded!

Yeah it's ment to be a replica of the '86 on WRC car.

I find the ATB quite good for grip and I was led to believe most of the autocross cars use the ATB for superior drive... be interested if someone actually knows or it's hype.

Definetly less aggresive than a plate diff.

Originally Posted by wrench459 I noticed your using an aftermarket fuel regulator. Guessing Bosch injectors. What size are you using?

I am using the original C20XE injectors and with the G3 LINK Ecu we havn't topped them out yet.

Antony