Family 1 Ecotec (1.4T, 1.6T, 1.8) in a GT?

[clayfive]

Hi all, Has anyone swapped for a "small block" Ecotec engine? The new series with DCVCP and/or turbo are pushing from 140 to 180 HP in what must be a pretty small package. Have searched out a lot of info on the larger block (2.0, 2.2, 2.4) swaps but found nada on these. It'd be great to get power, reliability, economy, and parts availability without losing rails, footwells, and firewalls.
Looking for any advice, experience, measurements, pics, bel/trany options, etc. Think they use the same block as the Z16XE and Z18XE motors. They've been in some of the Opels (FWD) in the Europe and Asia markets for a couple years but not due here until mid-2010 or 2011. Could get parts at the chevy dealer (ouch!) after that though.

[blancojp]

Originally Posted by clayfive Hi all, Has anyone swapped for a "small block" Ecotec engine? The new series with DCVCP and/or turbo are pushing from 140 to 180 HP in what must be a pretty small package. Have searched out a lot of info on the larger block (2.0, 2.2, 2.4) swaps but found nada on these. It'd be great to get power, reliability, economy, and parts availability without losing rails, footwells, and firewalls. Looking for any advice, experience, measurements, pics, bel/trany options, etc. Think they use the same block as the Z16XE and Z18XE motors. They've been in some of the Opels (FWD) in the Europe and Asia markets for a couple years but not due here until mid-2010 or 2011. Could get parts at the chevy dealer (ouch!) after that though.

This is a nice compact powerfull engine but it does have a very wide bellhousing. Major work on a GT, not too bad on a Manta.

[ghcoe]

Found this info linked off a UK forum.

Redtop engines

There are 2 types of this C20XE engine available - the very early 'Coscast' head ones which apparently don't suffer from the porous head problems that the later ones can suffer from. These engines are 150bhp standard.

Of course there are the C20LET turbo versions (approx 210bhp) as well as the not so good Ecotec engines which have a measly 136bhp.

The Coscast head versions of the C20XE engine can be distinguished as the non-cosworth head has a core plug in the back (in a manta) and the cossie ones have a big casting rib here with no core plug, also on the head to block flange on the exhaust side on an overhanging part of the machined surface there’s the word 'Coscast' stamped.

Too bad we do not have access to the C20XE and C20LET.

Here is a link to instructions on installing one into a Manta B. Not sure how close the the engine bay is to a A model but, the suspensions are similar.

Opelmanta

George.

[heimue]

Originally Posted by ghcoe Too bad we do not have access to the C20XE and C20LET.

Anything is possible...

[clayfive]

Aren’t ya’ll talking about the “big block” ECOTEC engines though? Same thing for the cool swap pics, right? The C20XE, X20XE, 22’s, 24’s, and X18XE are all Family 2 blocks. The Z14, Z16, Z18, and (maybe) the X18XE1 are Family 1 “small blocks”. I know the Fam2 ones can be swapped (from pics, threads) with lots of cutting, cussing, and cash. I want to use a Fam1, hopefully the Z16LET. So, are the Family 2 (86-88mm bores) and Family 1 (79mm) engines cast with the same flange width and are just as hard to fit? Please, tell me it isn’t so!

The only Fam1 ECOTEC I know of in the states so far is in the 2009 Aveo. The Ion, Cobalt, Malibu, etc all use the Fam2 the racers love. So I measured the Aveo on the showroom floor (yes, got some strange looks): about 14” across the trans flange just like the Miata 1.6 and 1.8’s. Don’t they fit in the GT pretty easily except or the trans tailhousing length?

The Aveo only puts out 105hp as is, but a turbo model from the Euro market gets you 140-180 hp depending on the cc’s.
Showroom Aveo measurements:
Bottom of pan to top of cover—25”
Tab to tab (bell housing) at the flange – 14”
Front of timing cover to rear of cam sensor—22”
These are also pretty close to the 1.6L Vortec diagram in a marine power link someone posted once.

Can anyone lay hands on a complete measured diagram for the Z16LET or Aveo engine? The GM codes are LLU for the 1.6L Turbo, and LXV for the non-turbo if it helps.

[ghcoe]

Not sure, but are these rear wheel drive or front wheel drive vehicles you are talking about?

[RallyBob]

Originally Posted by ghcoe Not sure, but are these rear wheel drive or front wheel drive vehicles you are talking about?

All FWD originally.

[ghcoe]

Don't you have to change out the cranks if you go from one to the other. Different harmonics?

[RallyBob]

Originally Posted by ghcoe Don't you have to change out the cranks if you go from one to the other. Different harmonics?

There's nothing to change out to, since they are only FWD application. However the crankshafts are not an issue anyway.

The issue at hand is usually engine mounts, RWD transmission adaptation, and of course electronics, especially with OBD-2 stuff. Lots of integration involved with the gauges, sending units, emissions, etc.

[clayfive]

My big concern is fitting the engine in without cutting too much (or any?) material out (body strength, foot/pedal room). Number two is knowing that there's a plate/bellhousing/trany that would work for the RWD transmission adaptation.
I've done an ECU integration before; not real fun, but easy enough with my background, the harness schematics, and sensors/senders from salvage. Ditto on the fuel pump and pressure lines. No emissions testing here, but want it to run clean and smooth.

[ghcoe]

I just kinda skimmed through this post, but I noticed that he was putting a EX in a Manta B. Might be interesting for Manta A owners since the B undercarriage is very similar to the A. It looks as though he is planing a 4 Carb setup and looks like he has converted to points ignition! Anyway you might inquire about your swap idea on this form because it seems they like to convert things there. Looks like the getrag trans bolted up to the engine fine. I do not see a converter there.

I thought we had rust. These guys have brought cars back from the dead that we would have scrapped here.

George.

Bendy's XE power 400 project - Opel Manta Owners Club

[clayfive]

Well, the word is in. While the Family 1 flange is the same size as the Family 2, the bolt pattern is different, and no telling what bellhousing, clutch, tranny, etc. might work. Time to punt.
There are a couple of auctions coming up soon, so will see what kind of domestic donor vehicles pop-up. Still plan to get the whole car so all the extras come with it. Will probably post a slew of questions when the mock-up starts.

[blancojp]

Originally Posted by clayfive Well, the word is in. While the Family 1 flange is the same size as the Family 2, the bolt pattern is different, and no telling what bellhousing, clutch, tranny, etc. might work. Time to punt. There are a couple of auctions coming up soon, so will see what kind of domestic donor vehicles pop-up. Still plan to get the whole car so all the extras come with it. Will probably post a slew of questions when the mock-up starts.

The 1.6 or FAM1 engine is made by Daewoo and it is also used on small trucks in Korea. The bellhousing is detachable from the transaxle base but it is only a half shell design.

You can do an old trick if you like, if you are using an Opel bellhousing just cut the Opel flange out and weld the Daewoo unit flange in place. You will then have a RWD bellhousing that bolts up to the Fam1 engine. Some mods will be required but the end result is a RWD bellhousing on a FWD engine. We have done this trick a few times with excellent results.