v6 swap or turbo the original engine

[RallyBob]

ok i know i have to change the suspension and the rearend but what fits the best and what works the best.

Since I don't know of anyone who has a running Opel GT drift car...who really knows what's best?

My advice is to pick something mainstream with tons of aftermarket support that is commonly used in drifting. AE86 Corolla, 3rd Gen RX-7, S13 or S14 Nissan. They have already done the 'homework' on what works and what doesn't work.

Drift setups are VERY different from any other setups. They're entirely different from road racing or autocross. Spring rates are insanely high, damping rates totally different too. Caster angle, steering lock, spindle geometry and ackerman are all tweaked to work well for drifting...nothing else. Better to go with something common so you can borrow their technology rather than spending 3 or 4 years trying to figure it out on your own.

BTW, you will need to flare the Opel GT's fender to fit the wider/taller tires, wider track widths, lower ride height and massively increased steering lock. They will rub the inner fenders something fierce otherwise....

I recommend you do some research on drifting setups. Here's a starter article by Mike Kojima. He's the suspension engineer who works on Dai Yoshihara's drift car. Dai was the 2011 Formula Drift Championship winner.

Basic Drift Chassis Setup Part 1

I want to know what people have done to turbo the original engine.

Do an engine swap. Really, it will cost you $8k to build a proper turbo Opel engine that won't blow up. Drifting is massively abusive on the engine.

I'd stick in a Nissan VQ35 and call it a day. If you blow that up, you get another at a junkyard for $800, and you don't spent another $5-6K rebuilding the Opel engine. Plus they're super-lightweight engines. I can pick one up and carry it around with ease. Lighter than just an Opel shortblock.

[baz]

2 questions for now


whats your budget? whats you mechanical skill level ?

[massiminob]

I'd stick in a Nissan VQ35 and call it a day. If you blow that up, you get another at a junkyard for $800, and you don't spent another $5-6K rebuilding the Opel engine. Plus they're super-lightweight engines. I can pick one up and carry it around with ease. Lighter than just an Opel shortblock.

I wish I could find that motor for that price. I've been looking around here; a low-boost turbo version of that is one of my current options for opel drag/street build. Unfortunately all yards near me want 2-4k for the engine alone.

If you have a lead on a (decent condition) VQ35 engine for <$1k, let me know. I'd snatch that up in a heartbeat!

[RallyBob]

I wish I could find that motor for that price. I've been looking around here; a low-boost turbo version of that is one of my current options for opel drag/street build. Unfortunately all yards near me want 2-4k for the engine alone.

If you have a lead on a (decent condition) VQ35 engine for <$1k, let me know. I'd snatch that up in a heartbeat!

They're expensive when pulled from a 350Z. But the more 'pedestrian' 255-270 hp version found in the Altima, Maxima, and Murano can often be had for cheap. Just gotta keep looking...

I got a used VQ30 (222 hp) for free from a dealership a few years ago. The car burned up the wiring harness but the engine was fully intact. Gave it to a friend of mine who was putting it into an AE86 notchback with a supercharger. Not sure how far he got though.

EDIT: Also found out the 2005 and newer Pathfinders had the VQ40: (270 hp @5600 rpm; 291 ft·lb @4000 rpm)

[massiminob]

They're expensive when pulled from a 350Z. But the more 'pedestrian' 255-270 hp version found in the Altima, Maxima, and Murano can often be had for cheap. Just gotta keep looking...

I got a used VQ30 (222 hp) for free from a dealership a few years ago. The car burned up the wiring harness but the engine was fully intact. Gave it to a friend of mine who was putting it into an AE86 notchback with a supercharger. Not sure how far he got though.

EDIT: Also found out the 2005 and newer Pathfinders had the VQ40: (270 hp @5600 rpm; 291 ft·lb @4000 rpm)

Luckily, I have time on my side, and can look around for a bit. Any idea what kind of power the VQ30 made with the supercharger added? I'm assuming his supercharger was running low boost (~8psi), and the stock pistons/compression ratio.

[RallyBob]

Luckily, I have time on my side, and can look around for a bit. Any idea what kind of power the VQ30 made with the supercharger added? I'm assuming his supercharger was running low boost (~8psi), and the stock pistons/compression ratio.

Like I said, not sure how far he got with the project. I suspect it would be easy to make 300/300 with that combo, with instantaneous throttle response. Plus the VQ30 has one of the highest rod length/stroke ratios of any production engine, so you can rev it to 7500 rpms all day long.

I also gave him the supercharger from a VG33 Nissan Frontier engine. It's an Eaton M62. It needed a new urethane drive coupler and front bearings, otherwise it was in perfect shape. Once again, free from the dealership!

[wrench459]

The QV30DE was in the 95-00 Maxima's
93x73.299 10.0:1 CR 2.01 R/S ratio
Cool, sounds like a sleeper just waiting to be awakened.

[Mike Lambiase]

if you are going to turbo the stock engine, first thing you need to do is get it flowing better. search for some of the head porting tutorials, do that, and then you can start to worry about a turbo. if your heads dont flow well, boosting your motor is going to get you no where...

then you have to figure out fuel delivery. that means either blow through carb or fuel injection. neither of these came on the GT, but you can get the FI from later CIH (cam-in-head) opel engines. if you go blow through, you are either going to have to find a carb set up for it that bolts up (and if you do, tell me about it), or get a custom intake made, and blow through will be finicky at best. Fuel injection will need all of the wiring from the other car, and a MAF sensor, and an O2 sensor on the exhaust after the turbo. It is also going to need a new computer to control the fuel, because the original fuel maps are for a stock whatever liter it came off of, naturally aspirated. a computer and harness runs $900 minimum.

after you get that all sorted out, you will need a turbo. Something along the lines of a gt28r or gt30r, they are smaller turbos, you might be able to get 250 - 300 hp out of them with an agressive cam and big valves. the smaller turbos are internally wastegated, so you will need a special flange leading into a special shaped downpipe that will have to be custom built. the exhaust is going to have to go through a custom set of headers to go through the turbo. the pipe should be thick enough to get cherry red and still support its own weight and the weigth of the turbo before deforming. at least schedual 20.

then you are going to need an intercooler. since the CIH engines have exhaust and intake on the same side of the head, your intercooler has to have both ports on the same side, not a common thing. you are going to have to find a place to put the IC that makes sense and while you are at it, you might want a beefier more efficient radiator.

if you source all of this out, and get all used kinda parts, you might get it done for 2500, if you do all the work yourself. That is after you spend the money to get the 1.9 built to handle the turbo. (forged rods, high comp pistons (9:1), bigger valves and seats, intake and exhaust porting\polishing, cam, lifters, ect...) others have already priced that all out.

there is alot more to it all than "just doing all that" and you will run into all kinds of problems. if you are serious about boosting the CIH engine, you need to read a bunch of stuff before you try anything.

that is only just barely scratching the surface of what it will take to make a gt into a drift car.

I am all for modifying cars intelligently, I think that the GT looks like it should go fast, but in stock condition it really doesnt, and that is dissapointing. It was not built for drifting, it cannot be easily modified for drifting, and it cannot be easily repaired after drifting.

all that said, if I was going to put another engine in a gt, I would K.I.S.S.. if I could take a stock engine out of something else, with the stock harness, the stock computer, and the stock perifferals, and just build new motor mounts and drive shaft to make it work, that is what I would do.

I think I saw a fairly stock turbo II 13b stuffed in a gt that looked good. thats good for about 200 WHP, and 9000 RPMs.

the NA rotary from the rx8 makes about 220 WHP, and it is not very big.

I think a Nissan CA motor would fit pretty well.

I read about the SR20 going into a gt, but there were some modifications.

there was a really good build in europe it was with a volvo T6 turbo motor.
Opel GT T6 -69 - zatzy.com

the volvo 4 bangers are pretty stout also.

then there are 60 degree v6 motors.

just keep in mind that you want the weight in the middle of the car. 50% on the front 2 wheels, 50% on the rear.

the car is already nose heavy, so dont go putting some cast iron slug up front...

Mike Lambiase

[Viny Charb]

Ya man, what they said!
Absolutely 100% custom one off project with no experience from anyone else to gather from.
So you have to do your own research and development, by that I mean invest, build, potentially destroy a few prototype. Sounds like an awfully risky project to get involved in unless you have some serious experience and/or back ground in it............................or your just rich!

[baz]

as i have often said "remember the GT is just a 64 kadett with a party frock on " and an 1.1 litre one at that

[skateboader11]

Ive got my uncle to help as i am only 17. HE is a master fabricator. he can make anything work and has the parts laying around his garage.

[massiminob]

You might want to check with your uncle to see what he's willing to do.

Let's assume you get the major parts (engine, transmission, & rear axle) for free (big assumption, since a reasonable price tag on decent high-HP drivetrain will fetch nearly $10k itself); it's still going to take lot of money to get everything to work together. To make a SAFE "drift monster" would take (my guess) $10K+ in frame upgrades, one-off suspension builds, engine mounts, cooling systems, electrical, seats, safety equipment, wheels, tires, brakes, exhaust, turbo flanges (if applicable), intake, fuel delivery, etc. Stock Opels can hardly take a light bump in the rear without getting structurally tweaked, let alone slammed sideways into a wall at 70+ mph.

Let's also not forget the hundreds of hours of custom design and fab work that will be required.

I love my nephews, but if one of them asked me to eat $10K in parts + hundreds of hours of my time so they (or rather, I) can build a car that will likely be crashed 2 days after completion, I'd tell them to take a hike. Maybe I'm just a jerk, though...

My .02 - you're young, learn how to get the car running, and keep the car running and in-tune. In these Opels, that's often enough to keep many people busy for a long time. Learn how to drive the car at its stock power levels - it's plenty of power to learn how to accelerate, brake, corner, and overtake properly. This should be enough to get you through your teens, at which point you'll likely have more money to blow on the car (this assumes you're a "normal" teen, and not some trust fund baby, in which case you can disregard all of my financial advice).

Lastly, don't waste your money on the Ebay "universal" turbo kits. There's a reason why REAL turbos (e.g. garrett brand) fetch over $1000 just for the compressor. I've seen the universal Ebay kits; the turbo will die a very early death, run way too hot from a weak cooling system, likely damage everything in its vicinity during operation, and ultimately cost you more in repairs than the kit originally cost. Look at Mike's build - that's a good model to follow for a high-hp race build.

That'll be my only long-winded post on this; I'll stay out of the pipe dreaming from here on.

[wrench459]

Ive got my uncle to help as i am only 17...

This is getting very interesting...only 17
How many years of experience behind a steering wheel? Your starting to sounding like a "ringer"
with years of driving on dirt. A very good base for a drifter BTW.

[skateboader11]

I dont really understand i guess why you guys seem to think its going to cost 10k or more. I have a rust free running and driving opel gt. it came from california. I paid 400 dollars for it. when we got it it didnt run. a little pb blaster and a battery got it running in an hour. I went and bought an extra engine an tranny for 200. I think he said something about a vega rearend for it. and some breaks from that or a pinto but idk if they will fit. He said he could fab them to make them work. im just wondering how to make the intake and exaust manifold for the turbo and if it has to be injected or if it can be carburated.

[opelwasp]

I dont really understand i guess why you guys seem to think its going to cost 10k or more.

Because we are not 17 going on 18 and think we know what we are doing better than others on this site who have been driving/working/building/fabricating/customizing/racing these cars for more than 40 years. We have something called experience. It is not given or bought nor magically appears. It is earned through time, blood, sweat, and tears.

We've built our motors, customized our cars, and spent retarded amounts of time/money. Building a racing or high performance anything is going to cost a lot. Throwing together a $400 car to try to make it a "drift" car is not going to work. You are just going to have a $400 turd that is ugly, uncompetitive, and worst of all unsafe.

Heed the years of experience on this site. It's not like we are trying to keep you from making the most super awesome build. Just realize there are just some builds that are not possible, unless you are Jay Leno.

[RallyBob]

I dont really understand i guess why you guys seem to think its going to cost 10k or more. I have a rust free running and driving opel gt. it came from california. I paid 400 dollars for it. when we got it it didnt run. a little pb blaster and a battery got it running in an hour. I went and bought an extra engine an tranny for 200. I think he said something about a vega rearend for it. and some breaks from that or a pinto but idk if they will fit. He said he could fab them to make them work. im just wondering how to make the intake and exaust manifold for the turbo and if it has to be injected or if it can be carburated.

I know you must think we're 'beating up on you' and picking on you by now, but that is not the case. We're trying to be realistic. Parts cost money, even if the labor is free.

You still haven't stated your power goals. How much do you expect to get? 200 hp? 250 hp, 300 hp? The Opel rear axle won't take that power (neither will the Vega one), neither will the 4-speed tranny....you'll need to adapt a stronger tranny from some other car. The stock clutch won't take it either. And the stock flywheel is a time-bomb at those power levels too.

So we're already talking about a custom billet flywheel ($300 if you know a machinist who works for beer, $500 if you don't). Custom clutches cost money. In order to drift you need to have a clutch strong enough to be able to 'kick it' ....meaning clutching and de-clutching at high rpms to break the tires loose. You'll also need a hydraulic hand brake to break the tires loose...most drifters use 4 rear calipers...2 for normal brakes and 2 additional ones that are tied into a hydraulic handbrake. They get some serious abuse.

If you want to have good throttle response and torque (and not melt the engine), you need to go EFI with the turbo system. Even if you go el-cheapo with a Megasquirt EFI system, you still need high flow injectors, fuel pump, fuel rail, fuel pressure regulator, high pressure fuel lines, etc. Figure a minimum of $800 if you get lucky at the junkyards...but realistically a lot of the stuff needs to be new, so it's closer to $1500. Just for the EFI and fuel system, not including the intake manifold. And dyno time to tune it. If you tune it wrong, you burn up the engine, and you get to start all over again.

Back to the engine. Price out these parts:
*new custom forged turbo pistons
*new piston rings
*billet connecting rods
*block machine work
*head porting
*big valves and valvetrain parts
*machine work to head
*custom camshaft, new lifters

You're looking at $3500 here, bare minimum. I don't see how you can do it cheaper. The stock engine won't take the abuse you want to put it through. It's 40 years old, and was never designed for boost.

You need to make a detailed plan, and price everything out. And figure the labor while you're at it. It will probably be a staggering amount of time and money. If you have the money and time, then go for it. But if you can't see the end of that rainbow, time to rethink the plan.

Read this thread. It cost the owner $10,000 to build an engine that makes 180 hp and 206 ft lbs of torque. Just the engine and the systems to make it run...EFI, manifolds, and turbo system.
http://www.opelgt.com/forums/perform...-turbo-gt.html

This thread shows some of the step-by-step process' required to build a turbo engine from scratch, but at least this was for a Manta...a GT has about 1/3rd the space under the hood to fit everything. There's $5000 in parts alone here.
http://www.opelgt.com/forums/opel-en...-rallybob.html

This shows just the parts to do the turbo system and EFI:
http://www.opelgt.com/forums/opel-en...html#post26867

[blancojp]

Let us not forget the fact that you will need a complete chassis and other components. Might be easier just to drop the body on an S-10 chassis and put whatever motor you want on it.

I have been building cars for some time now and there is no way you are going to build the car you want with $500.

[ggl]

Let us not forget the fact that you will need a complete chassis and other components. Might be easier just to drop the body on an S-10 chassis and put whatever motor you want on it.

I have been building cars for some time now and there is no way you are going to build the car you want with $500.

Exactly, just the work involved in finding and adapting a complete new front end will be massive for someone not used to this kind of work

Zach, if people here thought it was a good idea to use an Opel as a drift car you would have gotten all sorts of technical advice, the problem is, we see a TON of problems heading your way with a project like this and all we're trying to do is save you some grief. Find yourself a better starting point and your entry into the drifting scene will be so much smoother and keep the GT as a road car instead, with your enthusiasm and your uncle's skills and knowledge you should be able to turn it into something really special

[massiminob]

I don't think you're going to get the answers on this forum that you are looking for; the people here care too much (and know too much) about doing things "right" on these small/light cars.

My best advice, if you're still dead-set on going fast on a minimal budget, check out the grassroots racing forum. There are guys there that know all about going fast on the cheap. Just keep in mind, many of the people on that forum tend to skimp on quality of workmanship, reliability, or safety in order to minimize expenditures.

[opelnut_1]

I think the quickest way would be to find drift car and graft the opel gt body onto it.

maybe google bringatrailer an see if you can find a car someone has setup to drift and then take your gt body an graft it on to the drift car...

that would be my approach.