Electric Fuel Pump for carbureted (carburetted) CIH engines

[tekenaar]

A little background first.

The electric, pulse-type pump (diaphragm, solenoid, points) from an '81 Honda Accord which I've been using on my "Hooters Orange", '72 SSD GT has become somewhat temperamental of late and is not completely reliable any more.

CAN'T really complain about it though, since it ran trouble free for over 240K miles on the Accord and performed without problems for the last 3 years on my GT . . . well, that is until a few weeks ago. Had to go look for a replacement as the timing cover is from an FI engine (no mechanical pump provision).

We all know about the "low pressure/high volume" requirements of the stock Solex and replacement Weber/DellOrto carburetors, but I think it's worth a quick recap to help understand my choice (and recommendation) of a replacement electric pump.

I chose (and can recommend without qualms) a Carter (Federal Mogul) P60504 Gerotor, self-priming, positive displacement pump and mounted it in the well behind the left rear tire. It's small, quiet and will keep the entire fuel line to the carb pressurized to alleviate any potential "vapor lock" problems. The Honda pump was mounted there as well, incidently.

It's a 12V, 2.5-4.5PSI, 30GPH pump, so let's talk about these specs for a moment to allay any fears there may be about it's ability to do the job. Solex, Weber and DellOrto recommend no more than 3-3.5PSI pressure as long as sufficient volume is maintained. They are Low Pressure-High Volume devices.

You might wonder if 30GPH is going to cut it for volume requirements. Let me pose a quick question to put this in complete perspective for you.

Will your engine ever require more than half a gallon per minute? 120MPH is 2 miles per minute and your mileage (engine fuel consumption and pump volume required) would have to be worse than 4MPG for it not to meet these fuel requirements! I DON'T THINK SO!

[tekenaar]

Picture worth a thousand words? . . .

[opeldean]

with our gas tanks sloshing in the back and in the unlikely event of a rear collision and a gas tank rupture of my potentially thin,rusty,welded tank...what is going to stop the potential pumping of gas when i am upside down and my fire extinguisher runs out...(and i do always carry a fire extiguisher).... a mechanical pump stops with the engine..what can we do? someone said here that modern plastic cars have a provision for this..to cut the electrical power...welll what is best way to wire this?

ps: I also wear shoulder seatbelts too...but they can be hard to get out of.

[tekenaar]

Originally posted by bucky with our gas tanks sloshing in the back and in the unlikely event of a rear collision and a gas tank rupture of my potentially thin,rusty,welded tank...what is going to stop the potential pumping of gas when i am upside down and my fire extinguisher runs out...(and i do always carry a fire extiguisher).... a mechanical pump stops with the engine..what can we do? someone said here that modern plastic cars have a provision for this..to cut the electrical power...welll what is best way to wire this? ps: I also wear shoulder seatbelts too...but they can be hard to get out of.

Well, if you're upside down you won't be pumping anything but air . . . fuel having gone to the top of the tank!


Seriously though, I have wired both an inertia switch and an oil pressure (actually lack of pressure) switch into the plus side of the fuel pump circuit.

[namba209]

Otto, Just out of curiosity, do you have a prime switch in your circuit for when the oil pressure takes a while to build up during starting?

Ron

[baz]

ron it should not need 1 on a carb setup as the float bowl will hold enough for about 300 yards of driving

[namba209]

That's not the problem, Baz. On my monza with the fuel pump in the tank, the pump will not work until the oil pressure light in the dash is out, even during starting. After 2 days of not running the engine, the fuel evaporates out of the carb bowl and it takes a long time cranking the engine to get the fuel pump started to pump gas to the carb. When fuel is in the carb bowl, the engine gets 1/2 turn before it starts and runs. So the questions was if there is a bypass to prime the carb to eliminate the oil/inertia switches during the start cycle.

Ron

[pvcar]

i have a qustion were do u all buy these carter fuel pumps i cant find um any where in the south bay area here in cali so if any one could point me in the direction to find one such as a website or phone number and name of a place that would be very helpfull.

[baz]

ron theres no reason not to have a push button primer as it would be an open curcuit whan not in use
BTW whats that avitar

pvcar
for carter pumps try
http://www.global4autoparts.com/default.htm

[tekenaar]

Originally posted by pvcar i have a qustion were do u all buy these carter fuel pumps i cant find um any where in the south bay area here in cali so if any one could point me in the direction to find one such as a website or phone number and name of a place that would be very helpfull.

Bought mine at Pep Boys, which is a CA chain, if memory serves.

[namba209]

Baz, That avitar on your reply is the exact tail number aircraft I was crew chief on in the 60s, 974, also known as "ICHI BAN". That pic was taken over Northern California by a T-38 chase plane. I have an original poster size of that USAF authorized pic, along with some others that were done of "MY" bird.

Otto, Your memory, as usual, is impeccable, Pep Boys are located all over SoCal. They should be able to get the pump from the warehouse if it is not in stock.

Ron

[Sven]

someone said here that modern plastic cars have a provision for this..to cut the electrical power...welll what is best way to wire this?

There is usualy a little metal ball that pops out and cuts the power in a crash. Manufacturers like to hide it so normal mechanics wouldn't be able to put it back it when the car is fixed.

how exactly this ball thing works, i don't know. But you shouldn't worry so much, theres millions of different chances something kills you every second, probably won't be the fuel pump.

[baz]

ron its on nasa 's site wallpaper downloads at the present

[tekenaar]

Originally posted by namba209 . . . . Otto, Your memory, as usual, is impeccable, Pep Boys are located all over SoCal. They should be able to get the pump from the warehouse if it is not in stock. Ron

Pep Boys here in TX had it in stock, AAMOF.

Lived in Norwalk and Mission Viejo (when it was nothing but a single development on the next exit south of El Toro exit!) in '71 to '73, when CA company asked me to move to TX for them. That's when Pep Boys was still strictly a CA chain. Didn't get to TX until a few years ago.

[namba209]

Otto, Just an update on the geography since you've left, there is a toll road #73 3-4 lanes each direction that goes from I-5 to I-405 through Mission Viejo and cuts off about 40 miles if you don't use it and go to the interchange. Use it quite a bit going to doggy stuff.

Baz, I've seen the NASA website and I don't understand why they change the tail numbers on the birds they got from us. BTW that one pic was taken way before they got our birds for tri-sonic testing.

Ron

[jlthunder]

Originally posted by tekenaar Pep Boys here in TX had it in stock, AAMOF. That's when Pep Boys was still strictly a CA chain. Didn't get to TX until a few years ago.

I'd hate to burst your bubble, but I believe Pep Boys originated in the Philadelphia area

[namba209]

Well, I know for sure Manny, Moe, and Jack were here inSANe DIEGO in the early 50s. Used to watch their commercials on black/white TV.

Ron

[pvcar]

well bmws i believe if u look on any 90 to 98 or so bmw under the hood there is usally either one or two crash sensors dontno how they work but look very hard to dis-assemble and they have to be mounted in a certain direction at a certain angle, i have also seen others under the back seat and in trunk area i would assume they are all linked toghter so if one trips it will cut the power. just something if any one wanted to take a look at one of those.

[tekenaar]

Originally posted by jlthunder I'd hate to burst your bubble, but I believe Pep Boys originated in the Philadelphia area

And you would be absolutely correct . . .

Pep Boys History

There you have it!