Ascona Fuel Sender Micro-Surgery

[tekenaar]

"Little gold Kadette's . . . no longer looks so fine . . . got a bit of a rod knock . . . in her one-point-nine" . . . with apologies to Ronny and the Daytonas, Jan and Dean, The Beach Boys, et al!

All jocularity aside, I need to look at that problem - #1 cylinder rod knock - and need to move cars around for room to do it and thought I might as well fix two minor irritations - non-functional fuel gauge (no reading at all) and fuel pump starvation - in my '75 Ascona first.

Usual routine . . . drain tank, then remove fuel sender/float/fuel pickup assembly and repair. Well, not as simple as it first appeared . . . aren't things always like that! When I removed the hose from the fuel pickup, I noticed that one of the three E-pump bracket rubber damper mounts was broken and the other two were not in that great a shape either.

When I removed the sender assembly from the tank, I saw immediately that the float would also likely have to be replaced . . . crap! Of course, as I pulled the assembly from the tank, the cork sealing gasket tore in two places . . . so that makes three. Aren't things always supposed to happen in threes . . . especially bad things?!

I tested the resistive element of the sender next and came up with a "constant open" . . . not even a hint of a ground connection to be had! I decided then and there to fix and fabricate until it met MY satisfaction.

I've decided to remove the in-tank micro-mesh pickup screen function to the outside of the tank by using an external filter before the pump. To make it easy to change that filter when it clogs, I'll fabricate an elbow fitting and ball-valve between the tank and external pump pre-filter.

To be able to see why the sender's resistive element wasn't grounded, I had to take the metal housing for the element and slider apart. Cleaned (lot of rust dust . . . not you, George!) the housing, slider pivots, arm and resistor VERY carefully and then inspected the resistor under a lighted hobby magnifying glass.

Discovered the nichrome wire was broken at the resistor's "ground" end and also that there was no connection between ground and the remaining broken piece! Instead of one solder joint, I now would have to repair two . . . very, VERY carefully!

In spite of having all the right tools to do something like this, it still took me a bit over an hour to finish it. Just to make sure those tiny, micro-solder joints will stay in place, I placed a small drop of super-glue on the wires and circuit board close to the connections:



Now I need some help sourcing two other items: the float - cork, tubular, 1.375" dia x 1.5" long - and 3 of those rubber E-pump mounting gizmo's - rubber tubular center with a bolt sticking out of each end. They just need to be similar in size and function . . . anybody know of any other (than Opel) sources? I was thinking maybe BMW or Volvo for the FI E-pump mounting gizmos and maybe a later nylon/plastic (or whatever) float.

Any and all ideas welcome!!

[oldopelguy]

The rubber mounts you can get brand new from McMaster-Carr, pgs. 1349-1352 in their online catalog. Usually <$5 each.

Cork is on pg. 3670. You may want to go a bit over-sized on the cork, then apply a coat of sealant to the outside which will bring it to about the same buoyancy. I'd use Seal-All myself, seems pretty much impervious to gas, seals well, and goes on thick enough to get good coverage but dries thin enough to not add a lot of bulk. Also should work to re-adhere the cork to the arm.

[deaner]

BMW and VW have them. I'f you have no luck I have a few new sets of the rubber mounting bolts that you can have if you pay shipping. Can't be much. in shipping.

[Aardvaark]

Many hardware stores and home improvement places sell corks in various
sizes. They also carry rubber mounts in various sizes. You may want to check them out.

[tekenaar]

Originally Posted by deaner BMW and VW have them. I'f you have no luck I have a few new sets of the rubber mounting bolts that you can have if you pay shipping. Can't be much. in shipping.

PMed deaner (Chuck) about those E-pump mounting "bolts", and it looks like that's taken care of . . . woohoo!

Remembered my son replaced an in-tank FI pump assembly for a friend of his last year and had brought me the bad one from which to scavenge parts . . . long story, short - used the plastic float from that unit . . . uh, discovery - float arms are apparently a standardized diameter!



Just need to attach elbow and ball valve to the exterior fuel nipple on mine and buy an external filter to complete things. Been thinking about some sort of clear (see-thru), "take-apart" filter with a changeable element for this (it's low pressure - gravity) . . . will let you know!

[tomking]

Otto, I had a bad float on my Manta and so I took a good brass float from a carb and soldered it onto the arm. Works great.

[alpharm]

Why don't you [do not] request [ing for] the gasket by itself at [to] the parts store?
It is better than to try to cut another one.

[tekenaar]

Woohoo! . . . FI pump mounts are here, thanks to deaner, and that's one more thing out of the way . . .

[tekenaar]

Originally Posted by tekenaar . . . thought I might as well fix two minor irritations - non-functional fuel gauge (no reading at all) and fuel pump starvation - in my '75 Ascona first. Usual routine . . . drain tank, etc. . . . to fix and fabricate . . . I've decided to remove the in-tank micro-mesh pickup screen function to the outside of the tank by using an external filter before the pump. To make it easy to change that filter when it clogs, I'll fabricate an elbow fitting and ball-valve between the tank and external pump pre-filter. . . .

Quick update on the external pre-filter mods . . . well, got to thinking that it might be better to do this with an in-line QD coupling (quick diconnect, dry-break) instead . . . no luck finding anything yet in the size, material or price range . . . these things all appear to be spec-ed for very high pressures and are high-$! May have to settle for some sort of ball valve after all . . . and taking way too much time!

[namba209]

Otto, how about the quick disconnects for a GM FI fuel rail. IDK if they shutoff the fuel flow when disconnected, but may be worth a check. I've got a 1/2" and a 3/8" line on the fuel rail of Willit?, shouldn't be too hard to find and check out at your local recycler, just need a tubing cutter to remove them. Some need a tool to split the coupling, others have them integrated with them. HTH.

[tekenaar]

Originally Posted by namba209 Otto, how about the quick disconnects for a GM FI fuel rail. IDK if they shutoff the fuel flow when disconnected, but may be worth a check. I've got a 1/2" and a 3/8" line on the fuel rail of Willit?, shouldn't be too hard to find and check out at your local recycler, just need a tubing cutter to remove them. Some need a tool to split the coupling, others have them integrated with them. HTH.

. . . would you take pics and post here? . . . uh, THANKS! . . . for the idea, etc.

[Aardvaark]

I recently replaced the pump suction line from the pickup on my '75
and only a small amount of gas came out when it was disconnected.
The level in the tank was below 1/2 though.
Do you really need a valve? Couldn't you just pinch the hose off
when replacing the new prefilter?

[tekenaar]

Originally Posted by Aardvaark I recently replaced the pump suction line from the pickup on my '75 and only a small amount of gas came out when it was disconnected. The level in the tank was below 1/2 though. Do you really need a valve? Couldn't you just pinch the hose off when replacing the new prefilter?

Could I do it that way . . . certainly!

Not very elegant though . . . just a matter of personal "taste"!

[namba209]

Originally Posted by tekenaar . . . would you take pics and post here? . . . uh, THANKS! . . . for the idea, etc.

Well, I took these pics Otto, but, sad to say, they don't have check valves in them, so they won't do what you want as far as no-flow QDs. Pic 1 is the QDs hooked up and Pic 2 is disconnected. Note, if you do use this type, you'll need about 2" of the tube to put a hose on the ends and still have room for the QDs to snap over the tubes. HTH.

[oldopelguy]

McMaster-Carr has what looks like it would work for quick-connects with valves built in, Otto. Pg 186 in their catalog has the ones I would use myself, and might just have to get now that you have me thinking about it.

For a more local solution you could check with your local boating supply store; the pressurized fuel tanks used with outboard motors have quick connect feeds on them that might do the trick.

[tekenaar]

Geeze . . . been four weeks already! Tried various brass body ball-valve approaches and none of them were very satisfactory, sad to say.

Had to do something about getting my Kadett in place of the Ascona to start work on the engine in the meantime. Put enough fuel in it to move it around and swapped car positions . . . not without problems with the Ascona however. Because of the low fuel level perhaps and a stuck clutch (moisture), the engine quit and wouldn't start again . . . stirred up a lot of junk from the bottom of the tank, which completely blocked fuel to the FI pump. Good thing I had temporary strainer in there . . .

Drained tank again, fuel sender works now, BTW, and decided to drop tank to get it steam cleaned, "etched" and coated and just be done with the "rust particle" problem once and for all. Funny thing is, the tank looks brand new on the outside with almost no rust whatsoever! Now I just have to wait until the weekend to get my tank back.

When I temporarily mounted the fuel sender/pickup back in the tank to move the car, I did it using a gasket made from 1/16" thick cork sheet. This thickness may be fine for a top mounted sender like the GT, but it presented some "weepage" problems on my Ascona/Manta FI tank. Found some 1/8" thick "cork-rubber" sheet (Felpro 3019-85565) at O'Reillys and fabricated my current seal from it. Should work much better than the thinner cork (only) sheet I used before . . . thicker, and composite cork-rubber material!

[Aardvaark]

It looks like my '75 Manta's sender will need to be pulled as the gauge isn't
all that accurate. Probably the float isn't completely floating.
Could someone do me a favor if it isn't too much trouble and post the cork gasket dims., OD, ID and bolt circle dia, (5 holes @ 72 deg) for the flange? Bolt hole dia would be nice too.
It will allow me to make up a couple of gaskets ahead of time. OGTS is out of them at the moment.
Thanks.

[alpharm]

Originally Posted by alpharm Why don't you [do not] request [ing for] the gasket by itself at [to] the parts store? It is better than to try to cut another one.

thanks!!!!!!

[neuropel]

Originally Posted by Aardvaark It looks like my '75 Manta's sender will need to be pulled as the gauge isn't all that accurate. Probably the float isn't completely floating.

I wonder if that may be part of my problem as well, but sometimes I wonder if it's the gauge. The interesting thing I see is that at first start up my gauge will read fairly accurate, then while I'm driving the gauge often goes to near empty, then the next morning it'll read more accurately again. I've ruled out that the low reading is related to fuel sloshing in the tank - once it goes low it stays low, even sitting at idle. The gauge has NEVER showed the tank to be full. I almost wonder if the temperature of the fuel in the tank increases while driving, and upon getting warm the float sinks? The fact that the gauge has never shown full leads me to think it's the float.

Todd

[alpharm]

Check voltage stabilizer!

[tekenaar]

Originally Posted by Aardvaark It looks like my '75 Manta's sender will need to be pulled as the gauge isn't all that accurate. Probably the float isn't completely floating. Could someone do me a favor if it isn't too much trouble and post the cork gasket dims., OD, ID and bolt circle dia, (5 holes @ 72 deg) for the flange? Bolt hole dia would be nice too. It will allow me to make up a couple of gaskets ahead of time. OGTS is out of them at the moment. Thanks.

[Aardvaark]

Big thanks, Otto!!!

[neuropel]

Originally Posted by alpharm Check voltage stabilizer!

I assume you mean this piece?
How do I check to see if this is working correctly? I don't want to put 12V on the wrong post.

Thanks,
Todd K.

[tekenaar]

Originally Posted by Aardvaark It looks like my '75 Manta's sender will need to be pulled as the gauge isn't all that accurate. Probably the float isn't completely floating. Could someone do me a favor if it isn't too much trouble and post the cork gasket dims., OD, ID and bolt circle dia, (5 holes @ 72 deg) for the flange? Bolt hole dia would be nice too. It will allow me to make up a couple of gaskets ahead of time. OGTS is out of them at the moment. Thanks.

. . . didn't see that the first time. The bolts are M5x0.9 with 8mm head (wrench), so I'd say the bolt holes are 6mm (~15/64") . . . hey, it's German . . . everything's metric!

[David McCollam]

Todd,

Do you have any fluctuation in the engine temperature gauge? Does it show "hot" even when the engine has been running only a short time? If not, the voltage stabilizer is probably not the culprit unless your stabilizer is failing due to gradual heating over time.

I have a few of those stabilizers (new and used) if you need one.

Dave