Fuel vent line hoses/fuel smell inside car!!!

[73_Opel_GT_Guy]

Guy's as a former A/C mechanic myself (gave it up, tired of working 3rd shift with Tuesday and Wednesday off). Tygon makes many different types of tubing. High-Performance Engineered Plastics - Home Some of it is rated for use with gasoline most of it is not. The best thing to do is find out which tygon tubing you have it useually has the number runing the length of the tubing along with it's manufacterer Saint Gobain then get the specs off the web site. Alot of people think they have tygon tubing when its nothing more than ordinary clear PVC tubing available everywhere. If it does not have the info above on the tubing it's not tygon and probably not good for use in any applicatition around gasoline.

[2 Fast 4 U]

Originally Posted by baz copper pipe is a no no it vibration work hardens and will split with time Cupronickel like brake line is ok but not pure copper

Here it's used for the LPG fuel lines, and has been under the car for a few decades now and I haven't seen anything wrong with it yet!! [LPG is under 10 bar / 145 psi pressure]
So why not for a gas fuel line??

[baz]

erick i can almost guarantee its cupronickel , it looks and bends like copper but the nickel stops it work hardening

its not a case of pressure splitting it ,its the copper itself ,if you got some copper plate and try beating it with a hammer it soon gets hard and will crack this is why coppersmiths heat it and quench it in water , so it anneals and is workable again . Under a car it vibrates and hardens then one day it cracks and splits

[jerseydave]

OK I'll get the stainless steel tubing from Inline Tube (Fuel Line Replacement Thread) and the clamps from Del CIty Wire both sources from RallyBob! The steel tubing comes in 6' lengths, I guess it is OK to use a stainless coupling to join sections, compression not soldering, correct? Remember I have no mechanical or plumbing background, but I am usually good at following directions.

[2 Fast 4 U]

Originally Posted by baz erick i can almost guarantee its cupronickel , it looks and bends like copper but the nickel stops it work hardening its not a case of pressure splitting it ,its the copper itself ,if you got some copper plate and try beating it with a hammer it soon gets hard and will crack this is why coppersmiths heat it and quench it in water , so it anneals and is workable again . Under a car it vibrates and hardens then one day it cracks and splits

Well I could swear it's copper, I had to bend a piece, several times in the same place, to fit the new LPG evaporator and it started to harden on me, and because the color is exactly the same, thats why I think it's copper

[oldopelguy]

Copper was used at one point on a lot of cars, particularly on LPG systems, and a lot of people had OK luck with it. Some cars even used copper line for brakes, bad idea as that is. Point is still valid, though, that if you use copper line the odds are very good that if there is any movement of the line, anywhere in the system, then it's not a question of if it will break but instead a question of when. Aluminum line has the same ticking time bomb, though it takes aluminum a lot longer to work harden to the failure point than copper.

The point here is that if you're going to do a new install, you simply don't want to use copper line. With Summit and Jegs both selling either stainless or regular steel hard fuel line in rolls of 25' for less than $35, it's not worth the risk to save a few pennies getting copper at the local hardware store. Heck, Summit even has their regular steel 3/8" line, in your choice of several cool colors, on sale right now for $17.50 for a 25' roll.

[baz]

Originally Posted by 2 Fast 4 U Well I could swear it's copper, I had to bend a piece, several times in the same place, to fit the new LPG evaporator and it started to harden on me, and because the color is exactly the same, thats why I think it's copper

it could still be cupronickel and i must say im surprised they could have used it when its not that much more for cupronickel and it saves the problem but some company's will do anything to save a euro/dollar/pound

cupronickel will still work harden btw just takes a lot longer when its only vibrations doing it

[rsefczek]

well, i also noticed a gas smell in the back of my gt and wedged myself in the space to see what was going on. i only have 1 tee connection with the 2 corner vents connected to it and then to the filler hose. i notice the diagram shown in an earlier post has about 3 tee connectors. seems like this arrangement is better with fewer possible leaky connections. is there a reason to have that many tees?

bob

[jvandyke]

Good question. This is my next task. Just this morning I went to look because the gas smell in the garage was so bad. It has been bad inside the car when I fill up, not this bad. Car has been jacked up in front (brake work)and gas is leaking out of somewhere, lower driver's side. No time to investigate yet, not good.

[markandson]

I would not drive the car until you find it, and fix it, sounds like it should be real easy to find.

[David McCollam]

Once upon a time I had a 1978 280Z with the same problem. The garage was full of fuel vapor after the car would sit overnight. The solution was the replacement of the fuel tank vent lines. This also solved the issues with the fuel odor in the cockpit.

This thread is full of conversation about this and that type of fuel line, clamps, etc. This is a low pressure application, but one where sealing is paramount. The most straight-forward approach is to use good quality fuel line (rubber is fine) and good hose clamps. There is a place, Forge Motorsport, in FL selling the nicest stainless steel clamps you've seen, but you don't need them for the fuel tank lines ($2.50 ea). A good Ideal hose clamp is fine.

Put on the new vent hoses and get the fuel tank vents configured back to the vapor canister in the nose if you still have one. That is one reason it was there, to help eliminate the vapor in the tank by pulling it into the canister.

Good luck,

Dave

[jvandyke]

Yep, I've read up on this and downloaded the diagrams and all that, 5/16" fuel line, clamps. Don't recall about how many feet it takes now, anyone remember? Also, at some point to get through the body 5/16 was tight, maybe splice a little section of someting a bit narrow there? I have to go look through all my stuff again. I suspect as soon as I lower the car I'm okay for the moment. Probably pouring out the top left line, gas is way too expensive for this loss!

http://clubs.hemmings.com/clubsites/...h/TankVent.pdf

from another thread

[namba209]

Originally Posted by rsefczek well, i also noticed a gas smell in the back of my gt and wedged myself in the space to see what was going on. i only have 1 tee connection with the 2 corner vents connected to it and then to the filler hose. i notice the diagram shown in an earlier post has about 3 tee connectors. seems like this arrangement is better with fewer possible leaky connections. is there a reason to have that many tees? bob

Actually, there's only 2 "T"s in the fuel tank vent lines, one hooks up the two corner lines and the other hooks up one "T" to the other, the fuel filler neck and the line going to the charcoal cannister. If you only have one "T" hooked up to the filler neck and the corners, how does the vent line go forward?

[David McCollam]

It's either 6mm or 8mm, I can't remember. I used 5/16" fuel line for the replacement vent line in a 1975 Manta with fuel injection. The closest I can remember is about 12-14 ft. in the Manta. T

he problem with using the fuel line is that the wall of the plastic was thinner, thus smaller O.D. for the whole tube. As long as you're not against a sharp edge in the metal, a little silicone grease or spray lube should solve the pass-through issue.

Dave

[jvandyke]

Originally Posted by jvandyke Good question. This is my next task. Just this morning I went to look because the gas smell in the garage was so bad. It has been bad inside the car when I fill up, not this bad. Car has been jacked up in front (brake work)and gas is leaking out of somewhere, lower driver's side. No time to investigate yet, not good.

can't pin down the source of the leak sure is leaking, not done with brakes but lowered car back down to hopefully stem the flow as it really reeks in the garage, not good

[rsefczek]

now i'm thoroughly confused. i pulled the diagram from my opel repair manual and it shows the gt as having a top, near center vent line between the filler pipe and the fuel sensor. but the .jpg from ealier in this thread doesn't show anything like that. i looked at my set up again and there is no center vent nor can i find a vent to the charcoal cannister. looking at the jpg it looks like one of the tee fittings goes out to the cannister but, since i'm lacking that fitting, i don't have that line. my thoughts are:
1. put in another tee fitting and connect according to the .jpg
2. run a line from that out to the cannister (assuming i can find that!)
the line to the cannister may be a long one, correct? where does the vent line leave the body? since it is currently non-existent, i don't know where it goes and the diagram isn't too helpful. crawling under the car i can see where the fuel line exits and there may be another opening further to the rear of that. is that the vent line opening?
are the manual diagrams often wrong?

bob

[yellaopelgt]

Its been a few years since Ive done my vent lines but... not all GT's have a canister... if you did it would be up in the nose by the battery.I think...mine did not have one so...and its a early 1970.I re-did mine with fuel line and worm gear clamps and it took me about 2 hours. BTW...the FSM was no help whatso-ever and luckily my old cracked lines were still in place. It cleared up the gas smell immediatly,thank god!!! That was terrible. I'm taking a stab in the dark but memory tells me it was 16-18 feet of line to repair.
Joe

[jvandyke]

I had a chance to look under my leaking tank, I pulled a tail light too. Very strange no wetness by the vent line on the left/driver's side as I suspected as I just fueled up and jacked the right front for caliper repair, thus pushing the gas to the left side of tank, that's where I thought I'd see leakage, the vent line in gas due to tilt.
But dry. bottom of car is soaked in extreme driver's rear corner, dripping into a puddle (now just a wet spot).
Maybe filler tube is getting gas contact where it normally wouldn't (due to raised front) causing an actual fluid leak and that filler tube leak was the source of my fumagation after filling up too. Sound plausible?

I work too much. Spend hours at "work" mentally imagining problems and fixes to problems that would probably take minutes to investigate and solve if I actually had the car.
Solution: quit my job and pay myself to fix my car

[namba209]

Bob, charcoal cannisters are available at your local auto parts store. I got one for Willit? because I needed it for the computer system on the car. Here's some pics of where it is supposed to be mounted, and where the vent line comes out by the fuel feed line. I ran my electrical fuel pump lead through that hole and put a couple more in behind that for my fuel return and vent lines. I had to modify the attaching bracket/clamp on my new cannister, it was a bit larger than the original, I just cut it in half and used it like a clamp to hold the new can in place. HTH.

[markandson]

Another bad possibility is that you have a hole in the tank where the outlet is. The original fitting is brazed in, so you have dissimiliar metals in the area which causes a little galvanic action. When I did my tank I had to cut the area out and put in a patch. You can see it in the thread I referred to earlier in this thread. If you have a hole, the only way to fix it is to remove the tank.....big job.

[rsefczek]

thanks for the pics, ron, it really helped. looks like the p.o. removed the cannister and clamp since they do not exist where your picture shows 'em. i guess it's time for a trip to the auto parts store for a cannister and some kind of clamping arrangement. nothing like spending a little more money....

bob

[namba209]

Originally Posted by rsefczek thanks for the pics, ron, it really helped. looks like the p.o. removed the cannister and clamp since they do not exist where your picture shows 'em. i guess it's time for a trip to the auto parts store for a cannister and some kind of clamping arrangement. nothing like spending a little more money.... bob

Bob, a quick and dirty method to mount it, would be to fab up a bracket, you can use sheetmetal screws to hold it horizontally to the front structure, then run a large hose clamp or two under the bracket, and around the cannister. Until I found and modified the original clamp, that's what I was contemplating doing.

[jvandyke]

Originally Posted by jvandyke can't pin down the source of the leak sure is leaking, not done with brakes but lowered car back down to hopefully stem the flow as it really reeks in the garage, not good

Replaced all stock vent lines (which didn't look bad) with 5/16" fuel line. It was a pain fishing the line through the floor under the tank and back up to vent T. In the end I ground down the outside of the 5/16 line (about a foot's worth, so diameter was less) on my grinder wheel shoved it down from the top (with my hand through the brake light opening) and watched the hole under the car, saw the end through the hole, grabbed with a needle hose and hauled some through. No canister up front on mine so at the moment it's open to the air by the pumpkin (previously it was cut off right where it came out of the car by the fuel line).
There was one piece of hose spliced on the plastic line from filler neck, must have broken there in the past. This seemed a bit damp.
Gas actually poured out of the passenger side vent hose when I pulled it off the tank.
I guess if you really fill this tank up, you fill up the vent lines too, as you can fill the filler neck, you could have gas in the vent lines quite high (probably why the lines are clipped to the roof of the compartment, to keep them high.
I hope that solves my gas smell. Hard to tell, too much has been soaked and seeped for the last few days. How long before that dissipates I wonder?

[Mike Preble]

Light a match. That will help get rid of it. HAHAHA

Mike

[OriginalOpelGTOwner]

I replaced my fuel tank vent hoses last spring with 5/16 ID fuel line. To route line through hole in the floor pan there is a clearance depression in the crossmember located just inboard of the left side market lamp for the vent line. Did you try routing the line pass the crossmember at the depression?