Opel's Future?

[grslightng02]

With the current worldwide economic slump and recent reports of U.S.A.'s big three (Chrysler, Ford, and General Motors) being in desperate need of governmental assistance after sales have plummetted nearly 30% or more; it brought to mind a question. With General Motors owning 55% ? of OPEL, what would happen to OPEL if GM goes under?

Television news this even reported Chrysler's Chairman as saying they have less than 1 month left of liquid assetts. With auto sales down, the demand for the electronics that go into cars has plummetted as well, forcing Japan into a recession.

Let's all hope and prey things go well.

[wrench459]

Mr. Adam asked for help from the German goverment in the last week.
As for Chrysler it will be split up and sold off.

[newman27]

If Opel is a profitable business that could stand on its own - it may get sold off by GM to save the rest of the company. I saw a really good show once about the Packard car company and how they survived the great depression (they were making only luxury vehicles at the start of the depression). They made some quick and drastic changes in production mix and introduced a more affordable model to whether the storm. A valuable lesson for today's manufacturers.

[69opelgtfvr]

The GM/Opel heritage survived WWII, it should outlast this ecomomic slump we're in now.

[jordan]

Originally Posted by 69opelgtfvr The GM/Opel heritage survived WWII, it should outlast this ecomomic slump we're in now.

WWII may have been the reason why opel is still around, war tends to stimulate the economy, there were lots of opel vehicles and commissioned parts being made all through out the war.

[GTJIM]

As I understand it Opel is a 100% owned subsidiary of GM and is one of the few GM divisions that has consistently been profitable.

Opel designed motors are widely used throughout the GM brands - from Chevrolet to Daewoo and many of the newer GM 'platforms' were developed by Opel on their Russelheim test facility.

There was talk of 'selling off Opel' a couple of years ago ... then someone realised that selling off your profitable divisions is an invitation to disaster as they then become a full competitor in the market.

[Phoenix]

I don't think that GM would get rid of Opel. Not with it foothold on the Eurpean market and it's ties to Saturn. There are a number of other places that they'd go first, namely Buick and Pointiac. If this continues they will have to.

Chysler CEO could give back some of the 30 million dollars in bonuses that they got.

I read an article that made an interesting point about the current auto manufacturer bailout. After 9/11 airlines were struggling but made it through without this sort of handout.

Besides, in a bad economy, is a new car what everyone really needs?

[baz]

makes more sense to sell off the bad and keep the good

just think in two years time you might have opel dealers all over the states , no chevy , gmc, buick, saturn ( when pennies count why make saturn badges to put on an opel ), etc., etc.

with luck opel could become a major US brand again

[Rionart]

I like your thinking Baz....now if only Detroit could see it your way....

[OpelNewb]

I for one feel that the car manufacturer's need to stop asking for a handout and start looking into way to actually fix the problems they are facing. Whatever happened to good ol' American Ingenuity? We (thi9s country) have made it thru far worse times and didn't hear a peep outta most people. No handouts were giving the Gov't didn't loan billions of dollars to big businesses to help pull them up. We and the businesses figured out a way to make it on our own! Many people today are doing just the same. With doing this we are raising a future society of ultra Dependant people. This country was not made on the idea of dependence but INDEPENDENCE! Ok I have vented. My .02 cents

[Aardvaark]

If Generous Motors goes bankrupt and has to reorganize, say goodbye to Hummer and maybe Saab, but I don't see profitable Opel going anywhere.

Rumor has it Hummer has already been sold and the announcement is pending.
As has Chrysler's Viper production to a new owner, soon to be announced.

[officertyo]

GM and others do not need a hand out from the government, they need to restructure. They need new management, and in gm's case, and they really need to cut all the fat and bull crap with the UAW and others.

Here's a little story from six or seven years ago. I made a trip to the F150 plant via a class i was taking. There was one guy on the line that caught my attention. This guy was wearing sandals, shorts and a Hawaiian shirt. His only job was too install the third brake light lens and two screws every 4 to 5 minutes. It took him only a couple of seconds to install them. Yet this guy was getting paid over 30 dollars an hour to preform this job. And yes he was also in the UAW. If this one guy was getting paid that just to do this, i would hate to have found out what others on the line were getting paid for "harder" work. I wonder why cars cost so much.

[newman27]

Originally Posted by OpelNewb I for one feel that the car manufacturer's need to stop asking for a handout and start looking into way to actually fix the problems they are facing. Whatever happened to good ol' American Ingenuity? We (thi9s country) have made it thru far worse times and didn't hear a peep outta most people. No handouts were giving the Gov't didn't loan billions of dollars to big businesses to help pull them up. We and the businesses figured out a way to make it on our own! Many people today are doing just the same. With doing this we are raising a future society of ultra Dependant people. This country was not made on the idea of dependence but INDEPENDENCE! Ok I have vented. My .02 cents

Unfortunately this is the wave of the future and it's only going to get worse. Bought more house than you can afford? Made some bad investments? Drove your company into the ground with poor decisions? Here's a handout to fix your problems. Meanwhile, people / businesses that manage their own affairs properly get nothing except the satisfaction of paying for these bailouts (now you have me venting ). The good news for Opel is that it appears they will be fine regardless of the path taken by GM since they are in a good position with the right products for their markets.

[neuropel]

I wonder if anyone at GM now regrets killing the electric car program (The EV-1) and buying Hummer? The documentary Who Killed the Electric Car is a real eye-opener in light of the recent financial crisis GM is facing. Granted they have the significant burden of having to pay for the healthcare and pensions of thousands of retirees, unlike other foreign car companies that manufacture autos in the US, but it also appears they've lobbied heavily (with "big oil") to stave off fuel efficiency requirements and ignore environmental concerns. Arguably, they've also helped to significantly shape the perception that US customers like big gas guzzling cars. If that's all you see advertised, that's what you like!

Some hens coming home to roost...

Todd

[grslightng02]

We definately have several points of view and heated feelings when it comes to the financial woes that the US and worldwide nations are enduring right now.

I'm certainly not for "handouts" as many are calling it. However while your ship is sinking, is not the best time to point the blame at who didn't see the iceberg! If the government is to give the big 3 money to help them from going under, I think the auto makers should be subject to an overview of plans by government (before the non blank check is written). I also think the auto makers should later have to pay the government back, or the US government profit shares and then reinvests that money into our roads, bridges, alternate fuel programs.

Consider our options if all three US auto makers go under... all new cars bought will be foreign! Some might cheer to this, but the reality is all car would be imported and we would be subject to whatever price increases supply and demand brings about!

Any way you feel about the position, it is undeniable the iceberg has hit. Now is the time to keep the ship from sinking, and look back later and learn from our mistakes!

[OpelNewb]

I hear your point grslightng02, However you have to plan for the pitfalls in life. Or atleast you should plan for them. If more people did they wouldn't be in the situation they are in. I am not saying that it's the fault of one individual that lead us down this path and that right there may be the exact problem too many hands got in the jar at once now look they are all stuck in the jar and can't get anything. The only way to fix the problem is to "Break the Jar". You have to let things level off on there own. I planned for anything that could happen and I have no issues. People were encouraged to get that home loan by the bankers giving them and fudged a few financial details so they could get there home and then banks come crying when those same people ran out of money to pay for the loan they were so generously givin. I am not saying this is the case for everyone but it lead to a bigger problem now that same bank had to lay off "joe" down the street cause they got into this mess well wouldn't you know now "Joe" can't pay his loan either. Domino effect takes over.

I am worried if today we take from peter(the tax payer) cause that's where all this is coming from and pay Paul(all the big companies that are crashing). Where will all of us Peters be when Paul gets it all together again. Are we the taxpayers going feeling the burden from all of this still? My guess is YES. Just a Theory.

BTW I am sure everything overseas will survive. Opel just as many car makers overseas will have a good back up plan I heard Mercedes had done something months ago to insure that they would not run out of funds. I am sure BMW and other followed suit.

Going bankrupt for these huge automakers isn't that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things. They will still be around. It's funny how you can move numbers around to get a desired response.

[OpelGT-de]

...The good news for Opel is that it appears they will be fine regardless of the path taken by GM since they are in a good position with the right products for their markets.

correct,

see

Car of the Year

[mschmalenberg]

"Going bankrupt for these huge automakers isn't that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things. They will still be around. It's funny how you can move numbers around to get a desired response."


Well being from Detroit makes me a little bias, but if one of the auto makers file for bankruptcy thy all will, they will have to also to even the playing field, the big danger is what will happen to all the parts suppliers, many are struggling now and if they start to fail nobody will be building cars in the U.S., you can't sell to many cars if your gas tank suppler is out of business and you can't get any gas tanks. A little story years ago Ford wanted to increase production of the Explorer, Ford went to the company they got there frames from and wanted the frames at price X, the frame company came back with price Y which was higher, because of all the price cutting Ford was forcing on there suppliers all the other frame makers had went out of business and Ford had to pay the higher price. If imported cars are all that is available the price might go up. Just my 2 cents.

[OpelNewb]

Well I agree about the trickle down. I am not saying either option is a good one but I feel that it isn't the taxpayers responsability to take care of the car companies we already do that by buying their cars.

[opeletti75]

you all make great points and we should not have to bail out iresponsible people in our government or anyone else.

[Aardvaark]

I didn't realize this thread would take a turn to if the car makers should be baled out or not. Since it has, I'll speak my peace too.

Until the government backs off of unreasonable safety and emissions regulations on the auto industry, the unions back off on their gold plated union worker contracts and dealerships stop trying to screw buyers over, I'm against any bailouts for the auto industry.

I say let them go bankrupt and force them all to reorganize and become more responsible, including the government and it's ridiculous demands for car design.

And don't tell me it can't be done, because the Japanese and some European makers are already doing it, even WITH stupid government regulations and crooked dealers to deal with. My 2 cents.

[namba209]

You folks are close to hitting a nerve here. I've been around for a day or two and seen some things that just don't make sense. Well it does if you consider one word, "GREED". Here's a couple of little tidbits. Back in 71, I bought a brand new 12 passenger Dodge van, total cost was $4792.55. Fast forward 10 years and the same van was over $17,000. That's over 300% increase in price. Now I know for sure my wages didn't go up by that much in the same 10 years. Also, in the same year I bought a brand new 4 bedroom house with a double car attached garage here inSANe DIEGO, at a selling price of $27,500. After 30 years total cost was around $90,000, thanx to fixed mortgage rates. There's that 300% again. My wages back then were right at $1000 a month and when I retired in 2002 or 2003, were just a shade over $2000 a month. Do you see a little disparity there? Due to the mortgage crunch my house went from $500,000 assesed value to below $350,000. Do I care? Not at all. When my ex-wife leaves for the pearly gates, and vacates the house, my kids will have something to fall back on and maybe have the better life than I. Getting back to the "GREED" thing, I'm trying to figure out why anyone needs to make over a $1,000,000 a year, they surely can't spend that much year after year, forever. The trickle down thing called "Reagonomics", was supposedly setup so the large companies would get tax breaks and use that money to improve the factories and workers benifits, bringing down the product costs, so everyone could afford them. Well, it worked, but only down to the top five levels of management. Nothing was done to improve facilities or workers beneifts, but instead increased the costs all across the board. So folks couldn't afford the products and clamored for increased wages, which jacked up the cost even more. To offset the cost of the work force more and more products and services are shipped outside the country to take advantage of cheaper labor forces, which, naturally, makes the label "Made In The USA" a farce as far as superior quality and workmanship. There are no more watch repairers any more, it's cheaper to replace than to repair. Pride in workmanship has gone along with the good ol work ethic. Young folks are coming out of our colleges and universities, demanding a 6 figure income, just because they have a sheepskin. What ever happend to "working" for a living? O.K. I'm off the soapbox.

[neuropel]

Greed indeed...this one really makes my heart bleed for those auto execs. It's definitely a cultural problem.

Big Three auto CEOs flew private jets to ask for taxpayer money - CNN.com

Todd

[tomking]

I am with you Mark. Let them file chapeter 11 and reorganize. They will still be in business, but not like they have been which should be better.

Originally Posted by Aardvaark I didn't realize this thread would take a turn to if the car makers should be baled out or not. Since it has, I'll speak my peace too. Until the government backs off of unreasonable safety and emissions regulations on the auto industry, the unions back off on their gold plated union worker contracts and dealerships stop trying to screw buyers over, I'm against any bailouts for the auto industry. I say let them go bankrupt and force them all to reorganize and become more responsible, including the government and it's ridiculous demands for car design. And don't tell me it can't be done, because the Japanese and some European makers are already doing it, even WITH stupid government regulations and crooked dealers to deal with. My 2 cents.

[opelnut10]

Originally Posted by officertyo GM and others do not need a hand out from the government, they need to restructure. They need new management, and in gm's case, and they really need to cut all the fat and bull crap with the UAW and others. Here's a little story from six or seven years ago. I made a trip to the F150 plant via a class i was taking. There was one guy on the line that caught my attention. This guy was wearing sandals, shorts and a Hawaiian shirt. His only job was too install the third brake light lens and two screws every 4 to 5 minutes. It took him only a couple of seconds to install them. Yet this guy was getting paid over 30 dollars an hour to preform this job. And yes he was also in the UAW. If this one guy was getting paid that just to do this, i would hate to have found out what others on the line were getting paid for "harder" work. I wonder why cars cost so much.

Well it takes a lot of money to find that guy that installs the same two screws 8 hours a day 5 days a week I bet OSHA didn't know he was wearing sandals in the work area of an assembly line. While you were there you should have checked on the hourly wage of the guy pushing the broom and cleaning up around the line. I bet he wasn't making less than $28 per hour. We had the best rated F series assembly plant ( F150,250 & 350) as far a quality control and safety in the country, it is gone like a fart in a tornado and just sitting there not being used for anything The Norfolk Plant had been in operation since the 1920's and it took them less than 6 months from the time they said they were "considering" closing it until everyone was gone.