Stupid questions thread.

[MonkeyNutZ]

This is just going to be a place to ask a bunch of stupid questions for the next few months about my 73 Opel GT.

The first being about my engine. I've been trying to identify if it's high or low compression. Since it's in a 1973 body, I first assumed it was low compression, but the engine codes make no sense and it doesn't have an EGR valve. The way the engine code was stamped the "19S" is really deep, but it gets shallower and harder to read the last few digits. My main confusion stems from the apparent lack of the "*" on the left or right side (for a low compression). One of my brothers thinks that the engine may have been replaced at the factory with a generic block without high or low compression markings, is that likely?

According to the OMC they redesigned the head in 73, what exactly changed? If it's low compression, would having it rebuilt with flat pistons raise the compression to high?

Thanks for your time

-Sam,
16 year old Opelitis victim

[First opel 1981]

What your engine is, and what it is supposed to be are two different questions.
The real way to tell is to run a compression check. Someone here, I know, will be able to tell you how much compression the high and low engines should have.

I do know that you can swap a few parts around to change the engine from low to high and vice versa. So it's a crapshoot as to what it really is.

[MonkeyNutZ]

I forgot to mention that the car in in non running condition. The transmission is out and the engine is propped up with a piece of 2x6 by the previous owner.


Just to be clear, there aren't any problems with running flat pistons with a 73 head?


- Sam

[opelnut10]

Originally Posted by MonkeyNutZ This is just going to be a place to ask a bunch of stupid questions for the next few months about my 73 Opel GT. The first being about my engine. I've been trying to identify if it's high or low compression. Since it's in a 1973 body, I first assumed it was low compression, but the engine codes make no sense and it doesn't have an EGR valve. The way the engine code was stamped the "19S" is really deep, but it gets shallower and harder to read the last few digits. My main confusion stems from the apparent lack of the "*" on the left or right side (for a low compression). One of my brothers thinks that the engine may have been replaced at the factory with a generic block without high or low compression markings, is that likely? According to the OMC they redesigned the head in 73, what exactly changed? If it's low compression, would having it rebuilt with flat pistons raise the compression to high? Thanks for your time -Sam, 16 year old Opelitis victim

If it has a 12 bolt head (two extra bolts at the front of the head going into the front cover) then it is more than likely a low compression engine. Unless it is a european model which would have been a high compression engine. The easiest way I know of is to take #1 spark plug out and bring the motor up on Top dead center (piston all the way up to the top of the bore) shine a bright light in the spark plug hole and look at the top of the piston to see if it is dished or flat.

[MonkeyNutZ]

After taking the spark plug out and turning it over, I'm 99% sure they're dished. Then engine should be coming out tomorrow so I'll make sure.

What needs to be removed before taking the engine out the bottom? Just to make sure,
1. jack the car up
2. attach engine hoist
3. unbolt the engine cross member from the car
4. lower the engine to the ground (or floor jack) with an engine hoist (lay the engine on its side?)
5. attach engine hoist to suspension cross member and lift the car higher
6. slide the engine out from under the car.

Right? Should I unbolt the engine from its support and unbolt the support from the car while holding the engine in place with the hoist? Any tips I should know?

Thanks a bunch

- Sam

[namba209]

You can drop the engine/ crossmember as a unit. There's 8 bolts, the 6 15mm head bolts and 2 12mm that hold the hanger straps to each tunnel wall. The crossmember will act as a support for the engine to keep it steady as you slide it out from under the car. HTH.

[First opel 1981]

Originally Posted by namba209 You can drop the engine/ crossmember as a unit. There's 8 bolts, the 6 15mm head bolts and 2 12mm that hold the hanger straps to each tunnel wall. The crossmember will act as a support for the engine to keep it steady as you slide it out from under the car. HTH.

Adding...

disconnect the main power wire from the alternator, and the negative wire from the coil (or unplug the distributor). Your starter should already be out of the car so thats not an issue. Remove the intake/exhaust manifold (15mm bolts) and disconnect the hoses going to the firewall.

And, just to be safe, remove the radiator from the car FIRST. Removing the fan will help give you room also.

[MonkeyNutZ]

When I got the car it was mostly disassembled to begin with. Right now, the radiator is out, transmission, alternator are removed and all of the cables and hoses are disconnected. The starter, distributor and header are still attached, I assume they'll have to come off?

[First opel 1981]

Originally Posted by MonkeyNutZ When I got the car it was mostly disassembled to begin with. Right now, the radiator is out, transmission, alternator are removed and all of the cables and hoses are disconnected. The starter, distributor and header are still attached, I assume they'll have to come off?

Distributor can stay in the engine but the starter should have come out when the transmission was pulled. Take it out. Also, the "header" is part of the "Intake/exhaust manifold" that does need to be disconnected. You may have to remove the carb to remove the intake. It's also helpful to get a 15mm box end wrench and bend it about 20 degrees to the side. You can either buy one that is bent or bend it by heating up the shaft to red hot with a propane torch and reefing on it.

[MonkeyNutZ]

Well, the engine will have to wait a few days to come out, Ohio decided to become winter over night (6-9 inches.) In the mean time I'll just keep stripping out the interior and sound dampening.

[yellaopelgt]

When you drop the engine down onto the floor....I prefer to drop it onto a creeper with wheels(a piece of 3/4" plywood on the creeper will distribute the weight better). OR.....simply a sheet of plywood....it will make it easier to get out from underneath the car. I like to pull the dizzy out....just because if the motor tips over, the dizzy wont take a beating. Another tip, get the rear wheels up as high as you can safely...it will make the drop go easier. HTH
Joe

[MonkeyNutZ]

We've got two creepers and a handy little wheeled "engine" creeper made out of some plywood which I'll most likely end up using. I removed the intake/exhaust manifold about 10 minutes ago. I haven't "started" removing the starter yet, it looks impossible

[yellaopelgt]

Really no reason to remove it until you drop the motor..... It should be plenty out of the way.But when you do need to get it off,it should be 2 large bolts,and possibly 2 smaller bolts that attach the support bracket. Pretty easy when the motor is out.....

[opelwasp]

How about this,

Drop the engine on a creeper with a cherry picker. Then wrap a strap or chain around the front suspension and raise the car above the engine.

[hrcollinsjr]

From the instructions given from everyone it looks like there are a lot of personal preferences. Radiator should be removed as you very likely will damage it if you don't. It's only one bolt so no big deal. After that I would at least remove the fan. Removing the water pump gives you just a little more room as the engine will need to go back slightly as you lower it. This is also where a lot of crank pulleys probably get bent. I'd definitely remove it. Remove alternator. I unbolt the intake/exhaust manifold and tie them out of the way unless the head pipe is short enough to allow you to completely remove it. You are almost guaranteed to shear one or more of the six head pipe flange bolts.Remove the oil sending unit under the manifolds, they are expensive to replace! I usually only remove the distributor cap and rotor button. Figure out where you are going to hook your chain and then start unbolting the cross member.

Starter bolts usually have a 15mm head but I've run across a few with 17mm heads.

The best luck I've had getting all six head pipe flange bolts out is to cut the heads off and remove the head pipe. At this point I either soak them with some type of penetrating oil over a period of time and use vice grips to wiggle them back and forth or use a torch on the manifold and vice grips. Remember sometimes they can be tightened slightly when they can't be loosened. Once you get them moving in whatever direction then you can slowly work them out.

Harold

[First opel 1981]

Originally Posted by hrcollinsjr The best luck I've had getting all six head pipe flange bolts out is to cut the heads off and remove the head pipe. At this point I either soak them with some type of penetrating oil over a period of time and use vice grips to wiggle them back and forth or use a torch on the manifold and vice grips. Remember sometimes they can be tightened slightly when they can't be loosened. Once you get them moving in whatever direction then you can slowly work them out. Harold

When I was removing the heads on my old Ford Ranchero back around 1985, I broke all but 2 exhaust manifold bolts. After swearing a ton, the old guy next door came out and told me a little trick on the exhaust bolts. I thought he was crazy but it has worked every time.

1) Spray all the bolts with WD-40 the day before you are going to actually remove the bolts.
2) Give them a little tightening (just a tiny bit does it) before you start loosening them
3) Remove the bolts.

Never failed yet.


We all have our little tricks. Just thought I would share mine.

[hrcollinsjr]

Originally Posted by First opel 1981 1) Spray all the bolts with WD-40 the day before you are going to actually remove the bolts. 2) Give them a little tightening (just a tiny bit does it) before you start loosening them 3) Remove the bolts. Never failed yet. We all have our little tricks. Just thought I would share mine.

I've told people before working on their suspensions to spray penetrating oil on the bolts days in advance. It does seem to help when you use a little forethought.

Hasn't failed YET. You need to quit now while you are ahead.

Your tip is a good one. I learned the tighten first thing from an old farm mechanic. I was trying really hard to loosen something and he told me to go in the WRONG direction. Being the smart young fellow I was, I recognized this and asked WHY. It moved relatively easy in the WRONG direction and then I was able to reverse direction and loosen it. You can usually learn something from older folks if you'll pay attention.

Harold

[grslightng02]

HRCOLLINSJR.... Was all that advice to pull the engine UP with a cherry picker or to drop it down?

I pulled a motor recently by raising the car up and lowering the engine down below like OPELWASP suggested. SOOOO much easier.

[hrcollinsjr]

Originally Posted by grslightng02 HRCOLLINSJR.... Was all that advice to pull the engine UP with a cherry picker or to drop it down? I pulled a motor recently by raising the car up and lowering the engine down below like OPELWASP suggested. SOOOO much easier.

I'm clear as mud some days! Out the bottom. Lower the engine and raise the car if need be to get the engine out from underneath it. GT engines do NOT like to come out the top! Can it be done, sure, but it ain't the brightest thing you'll ever do! I pulled ONE out the top from a junk car. My dad had to lift the car with a tractor front end loader way higher than I expected. The head had already been removed and it was still a pain.

Harold

[namba209]

Soo much easier this way, and you don't have to jack up the rear, except to disconnect the driveshaft.

One Out - Opel Photo Gallery

[First opel 1981]

Originally Posted by namba209 Soo much easier this way, and you don't have to jack up the rear, except to disconnect the driveshaft. One Out - Opel Photo Gallery

Thats a lotta lift to get that motor out.
A word for anyone who hasn't ried it yet, the car doesn't need to be lifted quite that high. Don't be scared.

[yellaopelgt]

Hence why I suggested raising the rear wheels.....Kinda like this. A set of 15x8 rims are under the back wheels.
motor_going_in_car_003 - Opel Photo Gallery

[hrcollinsjr]

Originally Posted by First opel 1981 Thats a lotta lift to get that motor out. A word for anyone who hasn't ried it yet, the car doesn't need to be lifted quite that high. Don't be scared.

You are correct, he could have lowered it several inches. Notice where the legs of the hoist are. When you pull the engine behind them, you don't have a lot of extra clearance unless you want to lay the engine over. All the engines I've ever extracted I've done like what Ron posted the link to. Oops, except for that one that I brought out the top.

Harold

[First opel 1981]

Originally Posted by hrcollinsjr You are correct he could have lowered it several inches. Notice where the legs of the hoist are. When you pull the engine behind them, you don't have a lot of extra clearance unless you want to lay the engine over. All the engines I've ever extracted I've done like what Ron posted the link to. Oops, except for that one that I brought out the top. Harold

Oh yeah, I forgot my trick when using a cherry picker.
I put the cherry picker in from the side straddling a tire so the engine can be removed through the front. Also, you can snake the engine out through the tire well if you want to keep the car lower to the ground. It doesn't have to be as high when you snake it out as it does coming out the front.

I admit to being very poor back when I worked on Opels regularly. I rarely had access to a cherry picker and used jacks only. For the life of me I can't remember how I did it either. It sounds so difficult now that I think about it.

[yellaopelgt]

Granted.... Ron also did that on a hill!!! You are a bigger man than me sir...... He couldnt put that motor on a creeper....it would have rolled down the hill!
The way I do it, the motor goes in from the side. I just "feel" safer doing it this way. I usually do it by my lonesome. (its Joe time.....)
Joe