Pontiac to be "Killed Off"!

[rrossjr]

I haven't owned a Pontiac for many years (since a rusty little Fiero that I got from my "friend" back in the late 80's) They are certainly responsible for some iconic cars in the past-most notably (in my opinion) the GTO. Sad to see ANOTHER American landmark vanish overnight... Farewell, Pontiac | Philly | 04/27/2009
Ron in Indy

[blackonblack89]

Originally Posted by newman27 Look at the top 20 cars list in this article. There isn't one car on that list I would get excited about and want to drive. How can a performance / excitement division like Pontiac survive when an appliance vehicle like the Camry (I hear it makes great toast) is the best selling car?!?

ummm there are 5 cars I would take. 1. fusion (hybrid/sport) 2 civic si 3. F-150 (bad-ass truck...can u say raptor) 4. and mix up between the nissan and malibu. cough-cough SS. Did u see the 1434 mile to the TANK ford fusion hybrid. (81MPG's!!!! 100% stock). Ford really waking up, IMO, big time. Taurus SHO!!!! (im a SHO guy) fusion line up, f-150, stang. FINALLY getting an HP grade soon.

Of course I mentiond the top models / performance models. The nice/cool one brings the crowds ($$$$) in but the base models sell. I am ford person but love all cars . GM messed up and has to change things. pontiac was on the bottom of the list. IMO hummer should've been 1st and ATLEAST 1 year ago. I think it suxes it had to close the real performacne lines....V line and IIRC SS line. cobalt SS=best 26-28k u can spend!!!!!

Pontiac meh w/e IMO it was a chevy car with different sheetmetal. It is/was not a perormanc division. No way. It had a few but was no performance divison. Thats why this happened to much copying with very few actual changes. sans G8 GXP It too bad sswweeeet car!!!!

[baz]

looks like Chrysler is going this week

Chrysler to file for bankruptcy* - Yahoo! News UK

[Opel Fan]

Sorry -- here come my opinions...

I am very sad... I LOVE Pontiacs. I think the '69 Grand Prix was a landmark muscle/luxury car, and they have had so many other desirable performance cars before and after, leading up to what I assume was a great sports car -- the Solstice.

But when you sell a glorified Citation/Phoenix as a Pontiac (I'm referring now to ninety percent of the fwd cars they have sold since), and that Sunbird/Grand Am/G6 etc. is a fragile piece of crap, then what can you expect? And what was WITH those Pontiac dealers having the gall to GOUGE prospective buyers of Solstices, while they were virtually helping themselves go out of business...!!!?????

EVERY person I have worked with or been friends with who bought a Pontiac or Buick in the past eighteen years (about five people -- all the rest are buying foreign cars...) had a major engine component failure in the first 10,000 miles --- bad camshafts and bad oil pumps mostly, as I remember it. That's not a great record, especially if you've ever experienced a Toyota....

...and yet I still --- more than ever --- want to pick up a well-kept rare 4th-gen Firebird Formula convertible, even though I KNOW they are junky.... bad distributors, water-pumps, cooling systems, transmissions, suspensions, etc.

That's us Americans --- romantic to the end...!

[Gumby]

Originally Posted by baz looks like Chrysler is going this week Chrysler to file for bankruptcy* - Yahoo! News UK

Bankruptcy does not mean the company is going away. Chapter 11 is meant to restructure the business, usually by shedding unwanted debt or obligation. If they were filing for Chapter 7, total liquidation of the business, then they'd be closing down. In all honesty bankruptcy is probably one of the best things Chrysler can do right now if they want to survive.

Originally Posted by Opel Fan Sorry -- here come my opinions... I am very sad... I LOVE Pontiacs. I think the '69 Grand Prix was a landmark muscle/luxury car, and they have had so many other desirable performance cars before and after, leading up to what I assume was a great sports car -- the Solstice. But when you sell a glorified Citation/Phoenix as a Pontiac (I'm referring now to ninety percent of the fwd cars they have sold since), and that Sunbird/Grand Am/G6 etc. is a fragile piece of crap, then what can you expect? And what was WITH those Pontiac dealers having the gall to GOUGE prospective buyers of Solstices, while they were virtually helping themselves go out of business...!!!????? EVERY person I have worked with or been friends with who bought a Pontiac or Buick in the past eighteen years (about five people -- all the rest are buying foreign cars...) had a major engine component failure in the first 10,000 miles --- bad camshafts and bad oil pumps mostly, as I remember it. That's not a great record, especially if you've ever experienced a Toyota.... ...and yet I still --- more than ever --- want to pick up a well-kept rare 4th-gen Firebird Formula convertible, even though I KNOW they are junky.... bad distributors, water-pumps, cooling systems, transmissions, suspensions, etc. That's us Americans --- romantic to the end...!

This isn't a matter of romantics. We used to build some of the best/most durable machinery and equipment in the world... what do we build now? garbage. If I am going to spend my hard earned dollars I am going to get the best thing I can possibly afford... "that best" has never been an American made car in my lifetime. The auto industry got fat and lazy, produced cheaper and cheaper products. World production capacity greatly outnumbers the number of cars that can be sold each year. This is called natural selection, the market needs to be thinned and I have no qualms to see if Pontiac, Saturn, or any other car make go away. In the end someone else in the end will step up to fill the holes they will leave.

[Ooooner]

Originally Posted by Opel Fan had a major engine component failure in the first 10,000 miles --- bad camshafts and bad oil pumps mostly, as I remember it.

I bought a brand new 97 Firebird and before the warranty ran out, I had to replace the transmission! The strange thing about it was, the dealer tried to tell me it was the exhaust system and not the transmission! The warranty was within 200 miles of running out so I guess he was hoping I would just drive off and wait until it rolled over 36,000 miles. Then I would have been stuck with buying a new transmission out of my own pocket. I was born at night, but not last night!

[opel kid]

first off wow it's been a while since i've posted a comment! anyhow it brings chills to me when i'm seeing car manufacturing companies dieing and going under. this is probably a stupid question but would you think Gm would sell pontiac to a private buyer then rather letting it go under for good?
ps i own a 1978 firebird.

[First opel 1981]

Originally Posted by opel kid first off wow it's been a while science i've posted a comment! anyhow it brings chills to me when i'm seeing car manufacturing companies dieing and going under. this is probably a stupid question but would you think Gm would sell pontiac to a private buyer then rather letting it go under for good? ps i own a 1978 firebird.

Sell it, get money. Dump it for good and get no money.

That was an easy question.

[opelbits]

I'm no great fan of GM (US, that is) or Pontiac, but I have been defending GM in conversations about how the car companies have 'failed'. Compared to 20 years ago, GM/Ford/Chrysler have made huge improvements in quality and engineering. All this talk about how they don't build cars we need is just plain crap. They are in the business of building what we want, not what we need.
As someone pointed out, look at all the Grand Ams running around. I see far more of them than I do Buicks. But as was also pointed out, there are more old people available to buy old people cars than there are young people to buy that Pontiac excitement. It's a good point...except that this nice little financial meltdown (the real reason we are even talking about auto industry bailouts and bankrupties), how many of those baby boomers have lost a good chunk of their retirement funds are going to be looking at buying any car, much less a Buick?
In this country, Buick is almost defunct. Keep building them in China if they sell that many there, but Pontiac should stay. So should Saturn.
Those too companies represent GM's best chances at fighting the imports.
And GM selling Opel? Virtually everything GM has that is any good at competing with the Japanese originates at Opel, whether it is whole cars or just the engineering.

I guess now I can stop defending the 'turnaround' GM had made...

As for Chrysler, aside from their trucks and Jeep, everything new from the time of the K-car, has been based on foreign (European) engineering. The whole cab-forward thing in 93-94 was based on the Renault platform and the current stuff is M-B based, so FIAT would be no real change.

[GTJIM]

Years ago there was a 1967/8 Pontiac Firebird down the street - an 'entry level' six-cylinder model with the 4bbl. 215hp OHC motor; painted yellow.

Has to be one of the few cars I would consider swapping my GT for .......

[manta73wi]

I'm sad to see Pontiac discontinued. My brother's first two cars were '72 LeMans GT's, which was a great looking car. We had a '89 Pontiac 6000LE wagon with the 2.8 V6. It was a great 3 seat family car with decent performance and milage in the low to upper 20's...really decent for a car that size. We sold it with 160,000 miles when we wanted the space of a van. My buddy and has family have had a string of Pontiacs which they've really liked as well. We had a few Buicks which treated us well. We've actually had great experiences with all the Big 3. Our Chevy Astro AWD van lasted up to 112K until my daughter totalled it in an ice storm. We put 210,000 on a '89 Dodge Grand Caravan before selling that, and we currently have 159,000 on a '93 Ford Escort and 82,000 on our '03 Chrysler Town & County Limited. The Chrysler really is a great vehicle...quiet, comfortable even on long trips, great power, nice features, and good milage for the room it has. However, it doesn't handle like the Mantas, so when the weather is dry and I don't need the space of the van, I'm in a Manta!
-Jeff W.

[GoinManta]

Bought a 2004 GTO.. loved it so much I replaced it with a 2006 GTO.

Last April I was at Carlilse Spring and bought a basket case of a 1966 Lemans/GTO clone convertible.. and just finished it up.

The list of classic Pontiacs is long.. even the Fiero was a good car (Ok admittedly the last year mainly).. They had style..

Current lineup isnt bad either..

The current G8 is an AWESOME car.. and I am PISSED the G8 ST was cancelled..

Pontiac G8 ST: officially cancelled

The Solstice, G6 and Vibe are good cars as well...

But they AXE Pontiac and save BUICK ???? Name a Buick you would want to buy ?? EVER !! (Other than the Buick Grand National)

Fritz Henderson is a idiot

He saves Buick to sell wealthy Chinese, and we will get to buy Chery

http://www.cheryinternational.com/

YEA....

[First opel 1981]

Originally Posted by GoinManta Name a Buick you would want to buy ?? EVER !! (Other than the Buick Grand National)

I got about 30 more years before I am a potential Buick owner (as if I would ever buy GM)

[tomking]

Originally Posted by GoinManta Bought a 2004 GTO.. loved it so much I replaced it with a 2006 GTO. Last April I was at Carlilse Spring and bought a basket case of a 1966 Lemans/GTO clone convertible.. and just finished it up. The list of classic Pontiacs is long.. even the Fiero was a good car (Ok admittedly the last year mainly).. They had style.. Current lineup isnt bad either.. The current G8 is an AWESOME car.. and I am PISSED the G8 ST was cancelled.. Pontiac G8 ST: officially cancelled The Solstice, G6 and Vibe are good cars as well... But they AXE Pontiac and save BUICK ???? Name a Buick you would want to buy ?? EVER !! (Other than the Buick Grand National) Fritz Henderson is a idiot He saves Buick to sell wealthy Chinese, and we will get to buy Chery Chery International YEA....

CHARLES! Two posts in one day after such a long absence. Everyone was beginning to worry that you had dropped off the face of the earth. Welcome back.

[GoinManta]

Been preoccupied with my 66 GTO

That and my business.. havent had time to be bored...

My 66 GTO is done, and weather is bad and thus.. here I am

Now I would love to get another project.. but the GTO busted me good.. it came with virtually no parts and needed everything. eBay fees have been killing all sense of profit for my business. So.. closest thing to a project I have right now is trying to get the Kadett motor running again. I am hoping its a lose torque convertor bolt otherwise it needs a new motor.

Who knows.. maybe someone will call wanting to get rid of an Opel soon and I will have something to play with. I do have a 14 year old and its about that time to start on his project..

[opelnut10]

Originally Posted by First opel 1981 I got about 30 more years before I am a potential Buick owner (as if I would ever buy GM)

The Buick Division of GM has been the consistent builder of quality cars and has the best quality control of all the GM divisions, including Cadillac. Buick's motto for a long time was "When better cars are built, Buick will build them" they have had 3 of the most durably engines ever built straight 8 from 1930 to 1953, nail head V8 from 1953 to 1966 and 3.8 V6 (both carburated and injected) supercharged and Turbocharged. As for styling they have been the leader in it for a long time and continue excel in inovation. The main reason for Chevrolet & Pintiac being the bread & butter brands in GM is PRICE. Buick & Cadillac are not priced for the average Joe to own. I have owned 2 Buicks (new) a 1966 Wildcat sport coupe and a 1970 GSX and while not cheap they were without a doubt the 2 most troulbe free cars I have owned in my lifetime. That is why you will see Buick live in the GM family.IMHO

[officertyo]

Originally Posted by tekenaar . . . will Pontiac actually build the Solstice GXP Coupe then?! . . . it appears somewhat contraindicative from all things about/from them lately, wouldn't you say! Haven't really heard from them that they're NOT . . . but haven't heard that they ARE either!!!

I do not know if it was a GXP but i did see a Solstice coupe in blue driving around in Tampa yesterday. And yes i am 100% positive it was a Solstice coupe.

[opeljohn]

I think I have an answer to one question on this thread. S&k Pontiac here in good ole springpatch has a brand new Solstice GXP Coupe in black sitting on the lot. Looks Damn Good! I think about 34 K on sticker. Not sure they would sell it for that though. If they do that coupe in a Sky I may have to spring for it. Connie just sprung for a new G8. May regret it later but it is a nice ride.

[manyopels]

No hesitation at all...the 2009 Buick Lacrosse Super.

With a 5.3L V8, 300 hp, 0-60 in less than six seconds and top end purported to be near 140 mph.

Of course, it's just an old person's car after all...

[tekenaar]

Originally Posted by opeljohn I think I have an answer to one question on this thread. S&k Pontiac here in good ole springpatch has a brand new Solstice GXP Coupe in black sitting on the lot. Looks Damn Good! I think about 34 K on sticker. Not sure they would sell it for that though. If they do that coupe in a Sky I may have to spring for it. Connie just sprung for a new G8. May regret it later but it is a nice ride.

Will not happen . . . GM has said from the onset that the Coupe was to be a Solstice ONLY model . . . no Sky Coupe, no "new Opel GT" Coupe!

Before GM's latest financial woes, they may have eventually offered the Coupe in Sky and Opel GT models, but we should be thankful that they went ahead with it in a Solstice. Pontiac's scheduled shutdown is over the next ~two years, so the Solstice GXP Coupe may turn out to be a very low volume "collectible" . . .

[Rainer Manthey]

I love Pontiac, because this brand was also an design-guide to Opel. Here is my 67 GTO after it´s been restored to an original condition.

Rainer

[DennisGardiner]

Originally Posted by manyopels No hesitation at all...the 2009 Buick Lacrosse Super. With a 5.3L V8, 300 hp, 0-60 in less than six seconds and top end purported to be near 140 mph. Of course, it's just an old person's car after all...

Works for me. Viewed a hot rod LaCrosse at SEMA two years back.
I'd buy!

As for Buick, its quality is excellent. Just check JD Powers for the last decade regarding customer satisfaction. They often were in the top three, just behind Lexus.

That and I drive a virtually trouble free 1980 Regal that has been in the family since day one.

[newman27]

Originally Posted by tekenaar Will not happen . . . GM has said from the onset that the Coupe was to be a Solstice ONLY model . . . no Sky Coupe, no "new Opel GT" Coupe! Before GM's latest financial woes, they may have eventually offered the Coupe in Sky and Opel GT models, but we should be thankful that they went ahead with it in a Solstice. Pontiac's scheduled shutdown is over the next ~two years, so the Solstice GXP Coupe may turn out to be a very low volume "collectible" . . .

The last Kappa platform car (a Solstice) has already rolled off the assembly line (June 12 was the date I believe, although I have since read that 30 special 2010 cars will be made). I recall reading that less than 2,000 Solstice Coupes were made. FYI - here is a rough estimate of total production since inception of the three Kappa platforms (not my numbers - taken from a thread on Solsticeforum.com):

Opel GT: 7,517
Saturn Sky: 34,227
Pontiac Solstice: 64,403

Matt

[newman27]

...bought a '09 G8 GT today as the new family sedan (the Olds is needed by my son for school in a couple months). She's Panther Black with Onyx and Red leather interior. If you are in the market for a new sport sedan, this car kicks butt: 6.0L V8 with 360+ HP, 0-60 in just over 5 seconds, 140+ MPH top speed. I couldn't let Pontiac go without getting one more. We named her "Jet" as in "Jet Black". The Opel will still be my preference though - there's no replacing Sara...

[tekenaar]

Originally Posted by newman27 The last Kappa platform car (a Solstice) has already rolled off the assembly line (June 12 was the date I believe, although I have since read that 30 special 2010 cars will be made). I recall reading that less than 2,000 Solstice Coupes were made. FYI - here is a rough estimate of total production since inception of the three Kappa platforms (not my numbers - taken from a thread on Solsticeforum.com): Opel GT: 7,517 Saturn Sky: 34,227 Pontiac Solstice: 64,403 Matt

. . . well, that sucks! . . . this means that you can't "order" a Solstice GXP Coupe built to your specs! I went out yesterday and verified this info at a Pontiac dealer.

I had wanted a 5-speed standard GXP with the "Club Sport Package" (coil-over "race" suspension) and climate control (A/C, it's extra!!) . . . couldn't find a single Coupe with that in 500-mile radius!

This REALLY sucks as I had everything in place to do this . . . doubt there is even a single coupe, in any color, with this combo on it . . . guess plans will have to change . . .