Chevy lovers may want to look away...

[rrossjr]

I am amazed by the damage sustained by the '59 compared to the new car. That Bel probably outweighs a GT by >1000lbs (gulp ) Careful out there!
Ron in Indy

YouTube - Crash test: 1959 Chevy Bel Air

YouTube - Crash test: 1959 Chevy Bel Air

[Phoenix]

The entire windshield came out of the 59. I wouldn't doubt that the drivers neck was snapped in the impact, even if they weren't completely cruched between the bench seat and the dash.

[bellamy]

Wow it sure makes the cars of today loose the style or "artistry" of the older cars but they are so much safer.

[opeler69]

ouch!

[RallyBob]

It's truly amazing how fast the airbag deploys...it almost seems to go off before the cars collide!

[DennisGardiner]

Hence,... "why" I want a full 12 point cage for my 1980 Buick Regal.

Then, make it extend all the way to the radiator.

[RallyBob]

Originally Posted by DennisGardiner Hence,... "why" I want a full 12 point cage for my 1980 Buick Regal. Then, make it extend all the way to the radiator.

Tsk, tsk, bad idea for a street car! 'Too' stiff may keep the car intact, but may kill the driver. On my race Manta I removed all the front tubes the previous owner had added (NASCAR style hoops) since I'd rather lose the car than break my neck! You still need crush zones....

I think the only reason I'm still alive after last month's accident is because my car folded up and absorbed all the energy that would have otherwise been directed into my body. It was my sacrificial anode! Both the EMT and my doctor said that if I had been in a heavier vehicle that didn't 'yield' I'd have probably broken my neck. Oh, and my car got punted over 200 feet after this impact.

End result of a 5500 lb SUV traveling at 50 mph hitting a 2400 lb car sitting at a stop light without slowing down.

[itzcoatlmedina]

RallyBob
If this happened to you recently, hope you are OK, neck injuries are no laughing matter.. if not, still hope you came out OK..

[jordan]

Originally Posted by DennisGardiner Hence,... "why" I want a full 12 point cage for my 1980 Buick Regal. Then, make it extend all the way to the radiator.

Just adding to what Bob said, prolonging the crash sequence is really what will make an accident survivable. If the the duration of the collision decreases an infinitesimal amount it will cause the acceleration the occupants see by a VERY large amount. And every bit the car compacts during an accident greatly lessens the negative acceleration the occupants will experience. This also needs to balance with structural deformation because hard contact with objects in or of the car will make it ugly. From the looks of the dummy's head in the bel air contacting the steering column especially, and the roof...had this been a real person you would probably be looking at a decap. Be safe out there everyone

[wrench459]

Originally Posted by jordan prolonging the crash sequence is really what will make an accident survivable. If the the duration of the collision decreases an infinitesimal amount it will cause the acceleration the occupants see by a VERY large amount. And every bit the car compacts during an accident

So would I be correct in saying "speed does not kill it's the sudden stop"

Glad your all right Bob after the crash. BTW would the hood still open?

[jlthunder]

That was a beautiful '59. It looked like it just rolled out of the factory. I wonder why they couldn't get poorer example of a "59? I'm sure structural integrity was part of the decision.

[Aardvaark]

Everybody dies eventually. Why is it necessary to postpone a relatively
few deaths at such a great expense to the price of the vehicles and to everyone who will never benefit from the cost?

Just using seatbelts which are very cost effective and can be installed on old cars as I have on mine are all I believe makes sense. But no. A whole government bureaucracy and so called safety industry has been created just to postpone a few deaths.

I, may be alone here in not celebrating this so called safety nonsense,
but I've had to spend thousands of extra dollars on what I consider a waste of money and have no option but to drive old vehicles all the time. Which I do much of the time weather permitting. End of vent/rant!

[RallyBob]

Originally Posted by Aardvaark Everybody dies eventually. Why is it necessary to postpone a relatively few deaths at such a great expense to the price of the vehicles and to everyone who will never benefit from the cost?

I think it's really because of injuries rather than death. Far more people are hurt rather than killed in crashes. And injuries are arguably more expensive than death in many cases, not to mention you won't have to worry about pain from injuries if you're dead!

Given the choice of living out my years with massive head trauma and leg decapitation vs. death, I'll take the dirt nap please!

[RallyBob]

Originally Posted by wrench459 Glad your all right Bob after the crash. BTW would the hood still open?

Yup, the hood opens, side doors had to be pried open (rocker panels and roof buckled from the impact). Driver's seat collapsed rearward. My head was less than 18" from the SUV's front bumper when that happened.

[opelwasp]

Originally Posted by RallyBob I think it's really because of injuries rather than death. Far more people are hurt rather than killed in crashes. And injuries are arguably more expensive than death in many cases, not to mention you won't have to worry about pain from injuries if you're dead! Given the choice of living out my years with massive head trauma and leg decapitation vs. death, I'll take the dirt nap please!

Yes Bob you have hit it on the head. Because of todays cars construction, thousands of people are "surviving" fatal crashes. Is that a good thing? I don't know. If I survive a F'ed up and debilitated and drooling on my self all day long, I don't call that much of a survival. I couldn't handle putting my family through the agony of having to waste their lives and emotional health caring for an invalid. Just let me die so they can move on. I vote for dying in a bad crash instead of surviving as a mangled mess.

[jlthunder]

Interesting topic.

Just to add to it, there were more head injuries in WWII compared to WWI due to the newer helmets. People survived with head injuries instead of being killed.

Some of us might not be here since our fathers or grandfathers survived their injury instead of being killed.

The '59 Impala used an X frame instead of the ladder frame we all know about. The X frame collapses upon impact. If you tried this accident with something like a '75 Impala, I think the results would be a little different

[jordan]

It seems that half the picture is being ignored. At the same time many more people are surviving would be fatal accidents because of modern safety equipment, there is a proportional number of people who are walking away from would be massive injury accidents unscathed or with minor injurys. There will always be people killed in car accidents, get injured, or walk away. The scale just shifted with the use of modern safety equipment.

And from a vanity perspective I would rather have the current industry standard be a collapsible steering column and air bag as an alternative to biting the steering wheel.

[Redskinsjbs]

First of all, Bob, I hope that you weren't too banged up! Everyone should understand that Bob went through a crash at the equivilent speed that you all witness in the video above (30mph v 30mph = 60mph v 0mph).

Personally, I think that the best way to make our roads safer is to require that everyone drive a normal manual car. One with a clutch pedal and a gear shift. I think that people on the road are too distracted my everything going on in their cars and are not focused at the task at hand. Being 18, I have witnessed many of my friends not only dial a phone number while driving, but send full and legible text messages while driving. If you had to operate a gearshift and a steering wheel, you wouldn't have a hand free to type the message into a cell phone.

JMO,

Jay

[Aardvaark]

Originally Posted by jlthunder Interesting topic. The '59 Impala used an X frame instead of the ladder frame we all know about. The X frame collapses upon impact. If you tried this accident with something like a '75 Impala, I think the results would be a little different

My thinking exactly. If a unibody car like Chrysler products or some Ford cars of the time were used instead of an X frame car like the '59 Chevy, the results would have been very different. But that wouldn't have been as dramatic for the video or their message.

[Aardvaark]

Originally Posted by Redskinsjbs Personally, I think that the best way to make our roads safer is to require that everyone drive a normal manual car. One with a clutch pedal and a gear shift. I think that people on the road are too distracted my everything going on in their cars and are not focused at the task at hand. Being 18, I have witnessed many of my friends not only dial a phone number while driving, but send full and legible text messages while driving. If you had to operate a gearshift and a steering wheel, you wouldn't have a hand free to type the message into a cell phone. JMO, Jay

I would hate to see the government get more involved in my life by eliminating my choice of transmissions.

How about simply requiring all new cell phones and such devises contain
gps motion sensers that shuts them off over say 5mph. Or install some sort of static interference generator that would go off over 5mph on the vehicles.

Complete you conversations before placing the car in motion.

[jordan]

Originally Posted by Aardvaark I would hate to see the government get more involved in my life by eliminating my choice of transmissions. How about simply requiring all new cell phones and such devises contain gps motion sensers that shuts them off over say 5mph. Or install some sort of static interference generator that would go off over 5mph on the vehicles. Complete you conversations before placing the car in motion.

What distinguishes a driver with a cell phone from a passenger with a cell phone? I am not stating this to condemn the idea as I myself never drive while using my phone so therefor I am not biased. In some states it is illegal to use a cell phone while driving, New York for one is that type of state.

But the bottom line it's not safe to use a cell phone or anything else distracting while driving and in some instances it is illegal. Though in parallel drunk driving is obviously not safe and is highly illegal though people still do it. Why not require a Breathalyzer installed in every modern vehicle tied to the immobilizer system? Many would cry that it is unconstitutional! Though for what reason would it ever be unjust unless it was directly preventing someone from breaking the law?

[RallyBob]

Originally Posted by Aardvaark My thinking exactly. If a unibody car like Chrysler products or some Ford cars of the time were used instead of an X frame car like the '59 Chevy, the results would have been very different. But that wouldn't have been as dramatic for the video or their message.

True that is. However I think GM was showcasing the fact that they have improved the safety standards of their own cars by a substantial amount by modern design and construction techniques. The heavier Bel Air (3850 lbs) took a harder hit than the lighter, newer car. Not by virtue of weaker or thinner metal construction, but by a general lack of design knowledge regarding crashworthiness, which was typical of that era. Metal dashboards and no seatbelts (or lap belts only) are not kind to the facial complexion!

The big three were slow to catch on in this regard, initial reactions to crash testing were to simply make things bigger. Remember the bumpers they used to make in the mid-late '70's? Some weighed almost 175lbs! But this doesn't come without penalties, more mass means more inertia...fine for you if you ram into a smaller/lighter vehicle, but when a heavy car meets an equally heavy car they tend to cancel each others' energy in a VERY short distance!

Again, the reason I think I didn't get killed in my own crash was the fact my car absorbed impact initially via the body crushing, then got pushed forward (again more energy being dispersed). If I had been in my Pathfinder (3900 lbs) and the same 5500 lb vehicle hit me, A) My vehicle would not have collapsed as easily, so I'd have more of the initial impact directed into my body, B) My vehicle would have been a heck of a lot harder to get moving from a standstill from the impact, again transferring more energy into me and also the other driver, and C) The other driver's vehicle would have crumpled far worse.

I'm still thankful that 15 minutes prior to my accident I changed my mind to ride my bike home, and took the car instead. On my bike I'd be dead, plain and simple.

As it is, I heard that all the other car's airbag's deployed (something like ten of them) and the front end was heavily damaged, which effectively totalled the $75,000 vehicle (Range Rover HSE). Airbags alone can cost $1500- $2k each! Add in some HID headlights, pricey grill, alloy hood, and the various radiators, A/C condensor, etc and I'm sure it's not a cheap fix.

[wrench459]

Originally Posted by RallyBob As it is, I heard that all the other car's airbag's deployed (something like ten of them) and the front end was heavily damaged, which effectively totalled the $75,000 vehicle (Range Rover HSE). Airbags alone can cost $1500- $2k each! Add in some HID headlights, pricey grill, alloy hood, and the various radiators, A/C condensor, etc and I'm sure it's not a cheap fix.

Depending on the year of the Range Rover.

I believe you can also add into the bill seat belt retractors. Ford placed some springs into the units that are one shot deals.

[myopels]

I'm glad that yur OK Bob. A rear ender really sucks, as you have no control over the moron that nails you. I've had a few close calls from dopes in front of me. It's good toknow the full stopping power and distance it takes. I have driven around a lot ofpotential crashes instead of locking the brakes and thinking God will save me. I know my stop distance, and steer beside the guy that I may hit. We look at each other, but no paint is exchanged and we drive away We need to do more slallom and performance competitions to get to know our cars better. It's amazing what they will do. Be safe, and always think evertone else is an idiot, and you won't be wrong.

[Aardvaark]

Originally Posted by myopels Be safe, and always think evertone else is an idiot, and you won't be wrong.

Amen to that!