Ga$ Price How high will they go?

[traytodd]

It steals your mony more efficiently than any crook.

[sawdust]

I wonder how many Tankers are parked off shore waiting for the price to go UP....

[neuropel]

Originally Posted by opelgt73 Is there anything that the government gets involved with that it does better (cheaper or higher quality) than the private sector?

I suspect we could find one or two, if we open our eyes and stop taking our way of life for granted. I found the list below after a quick search.

1. The FAA. Crashes are a rarity here, thanks to equipment safety tests and massively successful air flight controlling.

2. Medicaid: private sector insurance companies make money by ditching their customers when they get very sick. Medicaid picks up the castoffs. Ask a very sick person which insurance they feel offers higher quality.

3. Social Security: What if Mr. Bush had succeeded in privatizing SS before the markets crashed? Can you imagine how many old people would be working at WalMart, since their SS would have been cut in half? And did you know that before SS, thousands of older Americans simply starved to death?

4. SCHIP: Healthcare insurance for children who would not otherwise have it – enormously preventive of school absence, long-term illness, loss of physical and mental development.

5. The CDC: How do we know that the virulence of H1N1 is less than expected? Who is telling the world that US pork is safe to eat? How do we know whether an illness is H1N1 or not? It’s all the CDC. It's certainly not coming from the private health care industry.

6. School hot lunch programs: For many children, their only serious nutrition all day every day. What industry would do it?

7. The Soil Conservation Service: though bureaucratic, there is no private industry comparable. How vastly different would America be without the wetlands your dad and a thousand like him have created.

8. Head Start: kids from homes that have seriously dysfunctional emotional and learning environments have benefited enormously.

9. The Department of Motor Vehicles: how many mistakes have you had on your car registrations or titles?

10. E911 commissions: how long does it take an ambulance or fire truck to reach you if a child who can call 911 can’t tell the operator an address?

11. ANY State University Hospitals and Clinics – this is where ground-breaking medical research occurs, NOT in the private sector.

12. Open meetings laws for city, county, and state government office – nothing like it at all in the private sector. But if public officials make decisions without notifying us, they can get in big trouble.

13. Free public libraries – which most nations simply don’t have. Not many private industries offer these.

And let us not forget perhaps the best example - the United States Postal Service. How often do they lose your mail? I've lost packages being shipped in the private sector, but NEVER with the USPS.

[opelgt73]

Originally Posted by neuropel post

You're missing the point. I never said the govt doesn't have a legitimate role to play. I'm talking about quality and efficient use of money. The examples you listed are either regulatory in nature (CDC, SCS) or DO have more efficient and better quality competition in the private sector (DMV, Hospitals, SS - would be more efficient**), or are in my mind legitimate because they are needed but there is no profit to be made so they are subsidized by the entire tax base (libraries, school lunch, SCHIP etc.)

**I've probably already turned this too political for these boards.....but just an item for though......

-SS over your lifetime will return 1-3% on your "investment"
-A savings account will return 2-4%
-A well diversified stock portfolio will return 10-12%

Who do you think does a better the Govt or the private sector? Even WITH the recent market crash had you been investing for the last 30-40 years at the same rate you were paying SS I guarantee you would STILL come out on top. The reason people were starving is that the populace isn't disciplined enough to save and invest, and as evident by the credit crunch they are already living above their means. I'm not totally apposed to a mandatory system of investment, however it is apparent that the govt does not provide a very good ROI. I'm also biased because I'm 28 and I know there will be no money to pay for SS when I retire, in fact by most estimates Medicare/Medicaid/Social Security will be over 50 Trillion in debt by the time I retire.

[GTJIM]

Originally Posted by opelgt73 Is there anything that the government gets involved with that it does better (cheaper or higher quality) than the private sector?

Yes! Taxing us all - they have hundreds of years of monopoly experience at that which no private sector even has a look-in at!

Nationalise stuff - then they can suck out 'profits' at the front end and reap taxes at the back end.

Got to be the perfect system to 'harvest' the 'peasants' wealth.

Wonder why it has not been thought of before?

Oh! It has! That was the system Americans fought the British to escape from all those years ago.

Free for 200 years - got to be one of the longest periods in all history that 'peasants' actually took charge of their own affairs.

Welcome back to subjugation my American friends!

[neuropel]

Originally Posted by opelgt73 You're missing the point. I never said the govt doesn't have a legitimate role to play. I'm talking about quality and efficient use of money. The examples you listed are either regulatory in nature (CDC, SCS) or DO have more efficient and better quality competition in the private sector (DMV, Hospitals, SS - would be more efficient**), or are in my mind legitimate because they are needed but there is no profit to be made so they are subsidized by the entire tax base (libraries, school lunch, SCHIP etc.) **I've probably already turned this too political for these boards.....but just an item for though...... -SS over your lifetime will return 1-3% on your "investment" -A savings account will return 2-4% -A well diversified stock portfolio will return 10-12% Who do you think does a better the Govt or the private sector? Even WITH the recent market crash had you been investing for the last 30-40 years at the same rate you were paying SS I guarantee you would STILL come out on top. The reason people were starving is that the populace isn't disciplined enough to save and invest, and as evident by the credit crunch they are already living above their means. I'm not totally apposed to a mandatory system of investment, however it is apparent that the govt does not provide a very good ROI. I'm also biased because I'm 28 and I know there will be no money to pay for SS when I retire, in fact by most estimates Medicare/Medicaid/Social Security will be over 50 Trillion in debt by the time I retire.

I don't think I'm missing the point at all really. I too was talking about quality and "ROIC", but I'll stop there as this is dangerously close to spiraling into a political morass - hopefully we can get this thread back on track, especially now that oil prices have started heading up again at an alarming rate. After all, the topic of this thread is supposed to be about gas prices.

Actually, I'm trying to figure out when diesel prices are going to be back at the top of the heap?

[jlthunder]

Originally Posted by neuropel Actually, I'm trying to figure out when diesel prices are going to be back at the top of the heap?

In about 3 months when heating oil demand pickes up.

[Aardvaark]

Originally Posted by Aardvaark Any chance a nationalized oil industry would be able to drill in ANWAR and off shore? It seems to me if CA allowed drilling off shore, the revenue could go aways to helping their budget problems. And the increased supply would help smooth out the supply/demand.

Wow! Has this question caused a political debate!
I really only wondered if the government controlled the oil suppy it would mean an upcoming administration could order off shore drilling and drilling in ANWAR thereby getting around the selfish environmentalists who now prevent it.
I didn't mean to start an argument.

[First opel 1981]

The price of fuel has nothing to do with drilling offshore. It has nothing to do with the government. It has nothing to do with tankers parked offshore.

The price of fuel (oil) has everything to do with speculators. They are the ones that set the price, nobody else.

The best (and only) thing we, as the public, can do is to cut back on use. When the speculators lose tons of money thinking the public will buy every drop at $100 per barrel then the price will never get to $100. If they know we will pay $100, they will try 101....and so on.

The reason oil prices took a dive (aside from the US president election) is that many speculators had tons of money in the oil and there was an all of a sudden surplus. They needed to unload oil at all costs so the price dropped. Now as it edges up, the speculators are getting back into testing the waters.
If everyone dropped their oil use by 10% then the price would drop again.

Supply and demand, folks..... They will charge as much as we are willing to pay unless we can show them they need to sell their product for less.

[opeletti75]

we should just get own oil out of alaska were the land is baron and i saw it my self its a wast land no cows no deer nothing ecept oil and lots of it and think of this the rest the world is useing oil so how do we think we are going to save the planet by not useing it yea we will go poor and this rest of the world will get rich like our enemies and our country will get weaker and the enemy is just waiting to strike at the right time we need to be self aficient and by drilling it will also put people to work and then it becomes a win win situation sorry fro the bad spelling

[traytodd]

Most major market upsets are a combination of things. Last year's was high demand, expected unrest in the middle east, and a weak dollar all compounded by significant speculation and unrealistic predictions of $200+/bbl oil. The bubble bust when demand subsided and the expected unrest turned out to be not too bad. This year is different with demand down due to the recession. I have already heard predictions of $250/bbl but these are more likely attempts to push the market up for the speculators. The primary push this year may be a weaker dollar with fears of future inflation as we print more money to cover this debt.
It is intersting to note that gasoline and diesel comsumption in CA has been declining for over 2 years. It is one of the contributers to the states fiscal problems. The price spike last year provided some relief but it did not last as we are driving less and downsizing or hybridizing the fleet. So some of the lost demand will not return. With the recession, people will drive less and buy more efficient cars anyway. Many companies are going to 4 day work weeks, like mine, so that will reduce driving even more. My commute this morning (Friday) was extremely light.
Arnold is now calling for drilling in CA. Imagine that. He needs the $s. Had we drilled in 2002 when Bush wanted to, we would have the oil now. Think of the irony, we may have to borrow money from China and the Middle East to drill for our own oil or maybe even sign over the deeds to them in lieu of paying off T-bills.

Terry

[Aardvaark]

Originally Posted by traytodd Arnold is now calling for drilling in CA. Imagine that. He needs the $s. Had we drilled in 2002 when Bush wanted to, we would have the oil now. Think of the irony, we may have to borrow money from China and the Middle East to drill for our own oil or maybe even sign over the deeds to them in lieu of paying off T-bills. Terry

Good to learn Arnold is finally getting it. Now if the rest of the environmental flat earth society will wise up.

[traytodd]

I thought I would bring this one back to the top. Gas topped out here (NorCal) at $2.99 (87 octane) last week. It is now $2.89. I just read that the sales of gasoline and diesel in CA have declined for 12 quarters or 3 years as tracked by tax reciepts. So the demand in CA is not climbing. Is CA unique or are other states experiencing the same. If so, where is the demand? Overseas?

Terry

[Redskinsjbs]

The station at my corner here in DC hit $3.04 last week. I think that it is close to the most expensive in the city because out in the 'burbs I could still get gas for $2.69

[bert73]

Originally Posted by spdkilz02 another thing that doesnt help, is the fact that most oil places in the south are closed because of the hurricane.

Three days after Hurricane Katrina done a devastating blow here in our place. All oil places also are closed 'cause a lot of crude production has been shut down because of the storm.
_____________________________
Computer science is no more about computers than astronomy is about telescopes.
Miata Parts

[myopels]

Originally Posted by benncojr I am one of the lucky ones...I filled up this morning when gas was $2.47/gal. Driving home after work it was between $2.89 and $3.05/gal . That is a 25% increase in 8hr. Boy would I love that type of increase in my salary in one day!! I would then be could get my Opel to be like I want!! Baz, and you other folks not on this side of the pond are saying "Welcome to our world!!!". However, I think some of the biggest Oil Companies are actual on your side of the pond (BP, Shell). The reason your gas prices are so high on your side of the pond are the taxes that are charged by your Goverments not the price to the companies. I sorry for venting but this is unducking belevable!!

The best way to fight back is install an overdrive trans and use less gas. I am going for a chevette/s-10 t-5 combo withabout a .70 final gear. Or you can go with the getrag setup. I am also looking into adding a hydrogen setup to my motor as a supplament for now. see you tube, hydrogen garage, plus all the links that they have on the site. See also scorpion hydrogen car for a running sample of the technology. How does 200mph, twin turbo, 2 seater with 40MPG sound. Look into it, when you run your car on water, they can kiss your little red wagon, and they can keep their oil. Oh, by the way, the scorpion uses condensate from the AC to use as a fuel supply.

[Tru-Craft]

Why such a big difference in prices?
Are the high prices around the country from your state adding taxes?
Here in west central Florida it's $2.27 to $2.39 and dropping every other day.
?
Lyle

[baz]

still $6.48 / us gall here so $7.74/imp gallons or $1.70/ litre


have found some one who has a boat full of "euro diesel " what ever that is who will swop gal for gal with our red agricultural diesel so 50 imp gal(60 us gal) of red = $107 bargain

[charlie1966]

It's not just demand that effects price. Demand is falling but so is production. Production is falling faster so in effect the demand is higher because there is less gas/petrol produced. Also there is a good chance that local taxes are being increased to supplement other forms of revenue that are falling.