Ga$ Price How high will they go?

[opelgtworld]

Originally Posted by 2 Fast 4 U Don't be so pissed about your gas prices in the US, take a look at this and take a look at place #4

A comparison between the Netherlands and the US is very difficult due to the infrastructure. But some facts from the report are noteworthy:


"Oil use in the United Kingdom has basically stayed flat from 1980 to now, while in France it's dropped 17%, according to figures from the Energy Information Administration. In the U.S., meanwhile, oil use is up 21% over the same period.

On a per capita basis, Americans use three times more oil than Europeans. That means Americans are more exposed to rising gas prices than their counterparts across the Atlantic.

Americans have taken advantage of cheap gas prices to do other things - like buy bigger cars and bigger houses."

[blauwmarc]

This line can be found on the site which 2FAST4U linked us to:

Americans are feeling the pain of spiking prices at the gas pump more acutely than citizens in other countries because they've become acustomed to cheap fuel and large cars, experts say.

[traytodd]

Sacramento CA area $3.89 - $3.99 regular.

Benncojr is correct in his assessment of the many reasons why gas has gone up here. It is a combination of supply, demand, political unrest, weak $, designer blends, lack of US refining capacity, etc.

In general, I do not assume a conspiracy unless there is strong evidence to back it up. Exxon execs are notoriously inept at public relations. While correct often in what they say, they should not be so blunt in public. Example, Lee Raymond said his presence in Alaska during the Valdez cleanup would hinder the process. We was correct, big wigs divert attention and resources to serve them instead of solving the immediate emergency. However, that is not what the public wanted to hear. He got vilified in the press for that statement. In this case The Exxon CEO commented on the current political situation. His comments can and probably are construed by the press and many as evidence of a conspiracy to drive up prices to achieve a desired political result. I would be more inclined to interpret it as frustration over the inability of the US government to generate a coherent common sense energy policy for the last 30 years. President Bush commented this week in Arabia that the very people screaming the loudest about energy costs are the very ones blocking exploration, refinery construction, and nuclear plants.

As for the comment about Europeans feeling the price increases less, the distances there are much shorter, they tend to drive more efficient cars, they have better mass transit, and the strength of the Euro is reducing some of the increase. However. a $2 increase from $8 as compared to a $2 increase from $4 is equally hard on the pocket book. The pain is not relative, it is absolute.

Terry

[Lasse H]

Note that Europe also has countries like Finland where population density is very low. Great distances, poorly "designed" cities which spread to nearby countrside making implementation of good public transportation nearly impossible task. Car base is also rather old. At the moment cheapest gas (NOT good for GT) in my city costs slightly over 8,5 US$/US gallon.

A while ago car tax system was renewed to favor "eco friendly" cars, but from environmental point of view this really lacked effort. It was more like a luxury tax to rise prices of Ferraris and similar exotic (and very seldom sold...) cars to even more astronomical figures.

No reason to moan about gas prices for a long time, as long as there isn't any good alternative you can buy and use easily!
Oil is strange commodity anyway. As an primary energy it really isn't "produced" at all, just existing supplies pumped from earth. Also demand doesn't dimish when price goes up because so many systems are critically dependent on it.

[RallyBob]

Same station I pass every day, new prices today.

87 octane: $4.09
89 octane: $4.19
93 octane: $4.29

Ridiculous...

[MICAH1]

I have said this before and I continue to express it in political conversation..... Our government, big oil, and OPEC will always tell the public what they think we need to hear!!!!! Throw the dog a bone to pacified him!!! Look, I know that we consume a huge amount of petroleum and by-produces in this country alone, but to give their reasons for high price increases as, no new refineries, political unrest in oil producing countries, no drilling in protected areas, and here is one of my favorites.... possible hurricane threating off shore oil rigs. The storms moves away from the rig and takes another direction...... but their increased per barrel price does not come down...PLEASE!!!!

We can talk about new more efficient vehicles, but check out the mpg on new rides, not so impressive.... you think!!! If the industry wanted to produce a cleaner, higher milage car, truck, van, or military tank, they could. Why bite the hand that feeds you??? Without the American auto (mostly), OPEC would be knocking on our United Nations doors, and not President Bush going to Sadi Arabia for the second time to hear not just no from the King about increasing oil output but ...... HELLLLLL NO!!!
The oil industry wants every dang dollar they can get. And until folks all over this rotating globe called EARTH, stand up and say to governments and technology, .....HELL NO, WE WILL NOT TAKE IT ANY MORE, the price of gas, our way of living, our children's future will all go up in soot and smoke.

In closing, I always remember going to the doctor as a kid and reading this poster on the wall.... A CHECK UP AND A CHECK. That was for cancer research. My step-mother and my brother died from cancer. Cancer is still killing, and congress, oil companies, and OPEC are still sucking in our money with no truth in site. Yeah, I'm pissed. Pissed at this oil crisis, and pissed that I could not make my one road trip to Carlisle this year!!!!

[2 Fast 4 U]

You're right MICAH1, but one thing surprises me, the exchange rate between the $ and the €. the $ is sinking but the gas prices here in Holland are still going up, and our goverment wants to raise taxes, next month, on gas, diesel and LPG.

The one thing that is hurting everyone here in Holland, is when the Euro was introduced, wages and prices were cut in half, and now everything costs as much in Euro's as then in Guilders, but the wages are still the same!!!!

[PROPEL]

Originally Posted by MICAH1 I have said this before and I continue to express it in political conversation..... Our government, big oil, and OPEC will always tell the public what they think we need to hear!!!!! Throw the dog a bone to pacified him!!! Look, I know that we consume a huge amount of petroleum and by-produces in this country alone, but to give their reasons for high price increases as, no new refineries, political unrest in oil producing countries, no drilling in protected areas, and here is one of my favorites.... possible hurricane threating off shore oil rigs. The storms moves away from the rig and takes another direction...... but their increased per barrel price does not come down...PLEASE!!!!

Right on! But you forgot to add the bankers to your list. Remember, the old robber barons never really went away... their descendants still control the world's oil supply (the same way the De Beers monopoly keeps the price of diamonds artificially inflated). The controlled media can tell you what it wants, but there's only one thing that adds up for sure: PRICE OF OIL = U.S. DOLLAR.

Originally Posted by 2 Fast 4 U You're right MICAH1, but one thing surprises me, the exchange rate between the $ and the €. the $ is sinking but the gas prices here in Holland are still going up,

Yes, because Holland is still buying their oil with U.S. dollars (thanks to OPEC) and still buying American debt. Granted, the Euro allows you to buy more oil/U.S. dollars. So prices aren't rising as fast.

[West Coast GT]

Of course we would all prefer to pay $3 per gallon rather than today's price. But there's no sense belly-aching about it. 'Cause it isn't going to happen. And even at $4.00 per gallon, gasoline in the United States is still the best bargain we'll find in this lifetime.

I've got no patience for people driving Yukons, Suburbans, and Hummers in high-density urban areas such as Los Angeles and San Francisco; they get horrible fuel mileage and are a joke when used for status, rather than utilized for a specific job requirement. I see them constantly speeding. They often complain about the price of fuel. We've been through a series price hikes. Did these people actually believe fuel costs would remain static or drop when they bought a vehicle that gets 9 miles to the gallon?

To be fair, there are areas in this country and jobs that require operating one of these guzzling vehicles. I do sympathize with their situation.

So I like to pull into the gas station next to one of these SUVs, pump $20 of fuel in my wife's Miata, and loudly complain, "Damn! I just put $20 in this car two weeks ago!" It's especially satisfying when the other driver is drinking a $3.50 coffee drink from Starbucks.

[MICAH1]

You're completely correct WestCoast about the gas guzzlers, and people purchasing a vehicle for status versus usage but......... that is their business. The bottom line is the automotive industry is the creator and we the consumer are the end users. Research and technology must do its part to improve the product. A Bose sound system, great interior, and a GPS system, does absolutely crap for the engine horsepower/MPG or the exhaust gases pushed into the environment.

[samdog]

I agree, I hate suvs. I agree that we should be more energy resonsble. I live on Nantucket Island ,Ma and the gas prices are $4.59 for 87 and $4.75 for 93. The price of gas is regulated by OPEC, they control the supply. They obviously raised the price that we pay for gas. The bottom line is the American consumer is now paying for BOTH sides of the war.

[West Coast GT]

We (United States consumers) are in the same place we were in the late 1960s. It's the muscle car all over again. Our car advertisements tout horsepower and 0 to 60 times, presenting these characteristics as the measurement of a man's studilness.

We apparently didn't learn from the '74 embargo & resulting fuel shortages. Quite frankly, I'd prefer higher gas prices to waiting in line to fuel on specified fuel-up days again.

Meanwhile, my wife and I have 4 automobiles, the newest of which is 10 years old. The worse fuel mileage of the four is the Bonneville, which still gets 26 to 28 mpg on the freeway (it's primary use). My wife's Miata gets great mileage, of course, and is her daily driver.

My daily driver is a 16-year old Chrysler Le Baron convertible with Mitsubishi's 3.0L V6. 30 mpg freeway and 23 mpg around town.

And the Opel GT; still getting good mileage, consistently over 30 mpg combined city/highway (it very rarely sees the freeway).

This is all dated technology. If we really wanted to get serious about good fuel mileage we could. But we're buying to our desires and allowing ourselves to fall for the same old marketing ploys.

And here's the thing: besides enjoying relatively inexpensive fuel costs, I have no loan payments. Maintenance costs me next to nothing. And I still have a long range touring car with decent luxury level, two sports cars, and two convertibles. A car for every occasion/function except for hauling materials.

(When the guzzlers are sold for pennies on the dollar I'll probably purchase one, then park it. Several times each year I'll use it when I need to haul something.)

And even when fuel prices reach $5.00 per gallon, transportation costs will still represent a minor portion of the family budget.

So, to sum it up, we can reduce our transportation costs dramatically even when faced with increasing fuel costs. We do not have to buy new hybrids to enjoy low transportation costs.

And when it comes time to buy that new car, we need to evaluate better what we want from our car, and work to maximise the objectives.

[MICAH1]

Originally Posted by West Coast GT We (United States consumers) are in the same place we were in the late 1960s. It's the muscle car all over again. Our car advertisements tout horsepower and 0 to 60 times, presenting these characteristics as the measurement of a man's studilness. We apparently didn't learn from the '74 embargo & resulting fuel shortages. Quite frankly, I'd prefer higher gas prices to waiting in line to fuel on specified fuel-up days again. But we're buying to our desires and allowing ourselves to fall for the same old marketing ploys. And even when fuel prices reach $5.00 per gallon, transportation costs will still represent a minor portion of the family budget. So, to sum it up, we can reduce our transportation costs dramatically even when faced with increasing fuel costs. We do not have to buy new hybrids to enjoy low transportation costs. And when it comes time to buy that new car, we need to evaluate better what we want from our car, and work to maximise the objectives.

You have spoken the truth, WestCoast......

We do need to evaluate our daily driving needs, but our government and the auto industry both need to TRULY dig in with their tech units to solve the environmental, and engine performance issues. They, the industries, and we the end user consumers are both on the fence. We must do something or surely we both will tilt, fall, crash and then burn...

[jlthunder]

The part that bothers me is that the U.S. car companies are still trying to get you to buy their SUV's instead of the more fuel efficient cars. All of their ads are for big SUV's or $2.99/gallon gas for 2 years offers. It seems like no one remembers '75 anymore. UGH

[PROPEL]

I agree. I actually sold my Jeep CJ-8 last year in anticipation of the foreseeable gas "crisis". The Scrambler was extremely utilitarian both for winter driving and hauling, but it absolutely sucked on gas. A bio-diesel conversion would have been the only compromise for the Jeep, but then I wouldn't have any time to work on my Opels! As it is, we are all VERY fortunate to have fun, little cars that are relatively economical and easy (cheap) to maintain.

I'm really enjoying tinkering with 1.1Ls now, and that fun transcends all the new-car, corporate-marketing hype.

As somebody already mentioned, "Who Killed the Electric Car" is a must-see documentary.

REUTERS: Oil price defies swelling supplies
Members of the Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC) have repeatedly said supplies are plentiful. "There is more oil in the market than consumers want," Iraqi Oil Minister Hussain al-Shahristani told Reuters on Monday."What is driving up prices is an increase in speculative funds. An increase in production by OPEC countries would not really change the scenario -- it would not affect the price."...As the U.S. currency has weakened, making dollar-denominated commodities relatively cheap, and other markets appear unlikely to deliver high returns, financial players have increased their positions in commodities.

[West Coast GT]

I was amused to read that some of the local gas stations have fuel pumps that were designed with a maximum price of $3.99 per gallon. They're old pumps and no one envisioned prices going so high within their useful life.

As I said, I was amused; until I realized I'll be paying to replace the pumps so that I can be charged a higher price. That just feels like insult added to injury.

[traytodd]

I think we are all looking at this wrong. Just think of all the asymmetrical weight we are losing from our backside. It will do wonders for our spines.

[tomking]

Originally Posted by West Coast GT I was amused to read that some of the local gas stations have fuel pumps that were designed with a maximum price of $3.99 per gallon. They're old pumps and no one envisioned prices going so high within their useful life. As I said, I was amused; until I realized I'll be paying to replace the pumps so that I can be charged a higher price. That just feels like insult added to injury.

I seem to recall a similar situation when the price went over .99 per gallon. Several pumps couldnt handle that. Yeah I am older than many on this site.
I remember meeting Bob Legere a few years ago and thinking to myself: this guy looks awfully young to know so much about Opels, racing and engine building etc.!

[sawdust]

Originally Posted by tomking I seem to recall a similar situation when the price went over .99 per gallon. Several pumps couldnt handle that.....!

Yep that was when they started to sell by the 1/2 gallon.

[tomking]

Gee Hans, you must be older than me as I dont remember that.

[jeff denton]

As I recall it, when the pumps couldn't go over a dollar a gallon, they set the price at half the actual cost, then when you paid the bill they doubled it. So when I was filling up my dirt bike it seemed like the price of gas was from the good old days. Then you get inside and "welcome to reality."
So, why don't they just start selling gas for a dollar a quart? Sounds awful, doesn't it? But what's the difference...
Surely they don't have to replace the whole damn pump. There must be a little adjustment they can make, like change out a little circuit board.

[jlthunder]

Originally Posted by sawdust Yep that was when they started to sell by the 1/2 gallon.

I remember that too and I'm only 45

[traytodd]

Paid $4.07 yesterday for 87 octane in Sacramento area.

[GTJIM]

Originally Posted by jeff denton Surely they don't have to replace the whole damn pump. There must be a little adjustment they can make, like change out a little circuit board.

Jeff - the older pumps are analog ... not digital!
The entire 'guts' is a mechanical measuring device with flip-over numbers driven by fuel flow => they run out of numbers at 3.99 as the first ('dollar') position was only ever fitted with 1,2,3
Guess they used so many (three!) to get over the old "what happens when gas costs over .99 cents a gallon" problem.

At least, with the newer digital pumps they can go to $999.99 a gallon!


The 'best' way to bring gas prices down is to stop buying it ..... here some people do not buy from the first Gas company to raise prices for a whole month.

[Hiro]

1.5 euro per liter in France this week,
time to switch to E85 or at least to a 50/50 mixture...
Hiro
ps: chart shows the price increase in the last 12 months; upper curve is RON98, lower curve is RON95.