A SolstOpel Story
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    Just Some Dude in Jersey My location The Scifi Guy's Avatar
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    A SolstOpel Story

    You guys might find this problem interesting to read and follow. My SolstOpel wouldn't engage the starter and I ended up having to get it towed. It's been at the shop for almost a week as they puzzle out the computer network in it. The exerpts below are from several threads I started on the Solstice Forum website:


    Me:
    <<<I drove to work today and stopped at a convenience store to fetch my breakfast and when I came out my Coupe wouldn't let me start it. Dash lit up like a christmas tree, no response from the starter, can't move the gear selector, radio won't come on, only the word SOLSTICE showed up on the right side gauge. Yet most everything else seemed to have plenty of power and work fine. Headlights, electric windows, door locks, all seemed to work just fine. I hitch a ride with someone to my job. Two hours later my boss is driving me back to my house to fetch my Ford Escape and we stop by the convenience store to try to get the Coupe going. I check that the back window is closed and I open and close the passenger door(I had started the car in the morning via the passenger side to warm it up and I thought maybe the door was ajar). I hop in the driver's seat and the car starts right up! We drive back to work, I figure the door must have been ajar. Three hours later I go sit in my car in the parking lot to eat my lunch and I figure that I'll start the car to make sure it goes. The problem is back. Turn the key, all sorts of lights light up in the Run position, but no starter activity. After 5-10 seconds in the Run position a yellow exclamation mark inside a horseshoe starts blinking. Amongst all the lit up stuff I see an indicator that I don't recall ever seeing before: A car with a padlock over it. Me and the boys start looking online for the warning light info and it seems that light means something to do with the security system. But my key fob on the key ring has been dead for a year, it doesn't do squat. Could I somehow have activated the security system with my dead remote? Like, if you lock the car with the remote, but then open the car with the key, does that piss off the security system? I used a guy's code reader to see if the car's computer had anything to say about the car not starting, but everything came up okay.

    Rather than have it towed, I left the car at work and got a ride home. I plan on bringing my other working key fob and all my keys to work to see if maybe the working one will fix things. I haven't had any issues with this car. The battery is reading 13.4V and is one year old. Maybe my gas is a little low, I added a gallon while at work to no effect.

    I'm stumped. Can anyone suggest what my problem might be? >>>

    Me:
    <<<I had the car towed to my excellent repair shop.

    I brought all my keys, tools, jumper cables, etc. to work and when I got out I set to work on the car in the parking lot. Wouldn't start with the keys or with supplemental juice from my Ford at various locations. I checked and tightened power connections, but no go. I work at a Post Office main processing plant and an endless procession of motorheads and dudes from the Postal vehicle repair department came by to offer help(I fix the letter sorting machines). One of the Postal vehicle techs was a former Pontiac repairman and he said it's the key codes. Everything I've read and observed with the car was pointing towards the security lockout function. It was all getting way beyond my knowledge/skill/experience/interest level and I decide to let the pros take care of it. The tow guy was VERY careful and gentle with the car, so I'm happy.

    I'll let you guys know what the cause(s) turned out to be.>>>

    I started a new thread at this point to ask for a schematic of the car's communication system:

    Me:
    <<<My Coupe seems to be suffering from a problem in the car's computer communication network. The car is still being worked on, so I have no definitive answer yet as to what the ultimate problem is that's causing my difficulty, but much of what was discovered has to do with how various "computer" sub-systems interact with the main "computer". I'm sorry if that sounds like a poor description, but that's why I started this thread. I'm hoping that someone could find a wiring diagram or block diagram or some other flow chart that shows how the communication system in the car is laid out.

    I work as a mail processing machine mechanic at a large Post Office plant and almost all of our machines run on what could be very simply described as "localized internet networks". These systems have names such as CAN-Bus networks, KIDWEB, etc. and they are basically like an internet system that exists only within the machine. Every electronic device is connected to a single communication line that either daisy chains(series circuit) or runs in parallel from one device to the next. It's sort of like a big circular train track of electronic signals and a whole bunch of train stations. Or cars on the highway entering or exiting at various on ramps or exits. Along the way there are hubs, servers, or other devices that manage the traffic and do other things.

    I'm assuming from what the mechanic has told me that there is something vaguely similar going on inside our cars and that there are multiple computer-like devices handling things like Security, Engine Management, Lighting, Environmental Controls, etc. Apparently there are two "Body Modules", as the mechanic called them, that act as traffic and communication managers between the systems and the main computer. Do they do this wirelessly or via a common communication line or some other way?

    I'd like to get a better sense of how all this works, can anyone find some kind of chart or diagram that shows how a Solstice's electronic sub-systems communicate? >>>

    A guy then posted a link to a graphic of the car's CAN-Bus communication system:

    CanBus_zpsuhabgjio.jpg Photo by Davephoto | Photobucket

    A PM from Norbert:

    <<< Gordon
    I read on Solstice Forum about your stereo problems.
    Did the stereo dealer install the correct can bus adapter for our cars?
    I have heard about problems on GT`s when the wrong can bus adapter had been used.
    The Stereo must communicate also with the BCM!
    I also hear those can bus adapters aren't cheap!>>>

    Can anyone tell us more about what he's talking about?

    What is the correct type of can bus adapter to use on our cars?


    A guy posted:
    <<<I recently had a Pioneer AVIC 5200 installed in my GXP by Best Buy. It seems to work quite well. Haven't had any issues. They used a Scosche GM13SR 11 bit interface adapter. They said it was plug and play and didn't require any cutting or splicing of wires. They used the Maestro SW for the steering wheel controls, a Chrysler GM Ford forward antenna adapter, installed the backup camera, and Sirius/XM receiver module which were all plug and play. All devices and interfaces seem to work correctly. The Scosche cost $100 at Best Buy. Probably would cost less online.>>>

    The dude who posted the graphic wrote this excellent description:

    <<<This may get long but I'll share what I learned about the networks in a Kappa while sorting out a doner for an engine swap.
    If you look at the diagram you can see 2 networks. One is a single line ( green wires ), open ended low speed serial line that connects the BCM, the radio, XM module, Airbag module, instrument cluster, door lock module, and theft module.
    The second is a dual line ,(tan and tan/black wires) high speed line that connects the BCM, Onstar, ABS, TCM, and ECM.
    When I first got a call to help a friend of a friend sort out a problem I was told that the wrecked '09 Sky Redline was running and driving one day, but after dismantling some of it, it would'nt crank..
    When I got there I learned that he had pulled the dash all apart, and most of the interior was gone. Radio was out, instrument cluster was out, ignition switch was hanging but still hooked up. Onstar module was in the garbage can.
    First order of business was to see if the start signal from the ECM was present at the underhood fuse box. It wasn't. Next, with the key in the run position, I removed the start relay and put power to the starter solenoid via the relay output pin and the car fired right up. Aha!
    Just to back up a bit. The key switch is hard wired to the BCM providing an input to tell the BCM to start the car. The BCM puts out a signal, via CANbus, to the ECM, which controls the start relay that sends the power to the starter solenoid.
    The problem is that you cant just stick a meter on there and check for these serial data signals. So knowing some about LAN and CAN systems I guessed that the removal of components has interrupted the flow of data between controllers.
    I dug out the diagram and deduced that the missing Onstar module has broken the data chain. Sure enough, after removing the Onstar module from the trash bin and plugging it back in, the car started with the key as normal. Knowing that this engine swap was not happening if you needed all of these modules to go into the recipient, I just unplugged the Onstar module and jumpered the wires in the connector to re-establish the CANbus downstream . Car fired up. We have since eliminated the ABS module the same way. We disconnected the BCM, jumpered the CANbus, put power to the start relay, fired right up. So the only thing on the CANbus is the datalink, the TCM(automatic), and the ECM. From my undertanding the end of line resistor for the bus is in the ECM so it must be the last in the chain.

    I told you this could get long, sorry.

    SolstOpel, If you have a no crank, tell your mechanic to jump the start relay output to the solenoid and see if it starts.>>>



    And you thought that puzzling out your Opel's electrical system or installing FI was difficult! Not included in my excerpts above are the DOZENS of very firmly stated contributions from the 600hp dudes at work and other folks who looked at this problem the old school way: "Dude, it's your starter solenoid. Just put a new starter on it, dumbass!" ; "Dude, it's your ignition switch. When was the last time you replaced your ignition switch? I replace mine every 3 years. Replace your ig switch, dumbass!" ; "Dude, it's your battery cables. Make sure all your cables are tight/replace all your cables/replace your battery/tighten all the grounds on the car/etc..........dumbass!"



    Last edited by The Scifi Guy; 03-13-2017 at 09:31 AM.

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    2000 Post Club norbertone.gt371's Avatar
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    Solstice Repair Manual

    Gordon
    Do you know from the Theft Deterrent Modul behind the steering columne what read the key code dumbass
    Is point 35 " Key Remote " in the List. Also you will find all wirering plans you need!

    I will try to send the whole Solstice Repair Manual to your Email Adress with "Wetransver"
    You will get a mail and can download the Repair Manual with all information you search for in one file from the "Wetransfer" website!

    Okay?

    Norbert

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    Just Some Dude in Jersey My location The Scifi Guy's Avatar
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    I think you already sent me the Solstice Repair Manual. I am not going to work on this problem myself, though, so there is no immediate need for me to do research on this. If the mechanic cannot fix it, then I will have it towed to a GM dealer. I do not know what the situation is with the car right now, it might be fixed or it might not. I will stop by the shop when I get off of work and give him the information I have collected from you guys and I will find out where we are with this car repair.

    I am not happy with my SolstOpel anymore.

    Those new Miata/MX5's sure do look nice.

    Trade in?


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    Could be something as simple as the starter. My Dad has a dodge caravan that would start intermittently. He tried his different key and it seemed to work at first, but still wasn't the fix. I found that the fine braided wire strap that goes from the solenoid to the starter was so corroded that when I touched it, it turned to dust all but for a few threads. I put a new starter on and the problem was solved. At a visual glance it is hard to notice, until you touch and tug on it a bit.

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    Project 1450 supporter... Site Supporter My location RallyBob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John B View Post
    At a visual glance it is hard to notice, until you touch and tug on it a bit.
    Are we still talking about starters here? 😂
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    Just Some Dude in Jersey My location The Scifi Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by norbertone.gt371 View Post
    Gordon dumbass
    Hee-hee, yuk, yuk!


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    Quote Originally Posted by RallyBob View Post
    Are we still talking about starters here? 😂
    No,over persons who can`t start a car!

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    Just Some Dude in Jersey My location The Scifi Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John B View Post
    Could be something as simple as the starter. My Dad has a dodge caravan that would start intermittently. He tried his different key and it seemed to work at first, but still wasn't the fix. I found that the fine braided wire strap that goes from the solenoid to the starter was so corroded that when I touched it, it turned to dust all but for a few threads. I put a new starter on and the problem was solved. At a visual glance it is hard to notice, until you touch and tug on it a bit.
    It's not likely that it's the starter. The fact that it wouldn't start until he put 2.7V on a wire that was only getting 2.3V and then it did start pretty much rules out a hardware item. Plus my fobs, which I thought were dead, started working when he did the 2.7V thing.

    I go home in 1/2 an hour and I'll find out what the car folks say.

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    fwiw......for several years, parents 2002 saturn l300 would have a no-start situation; sometimes resulting in a tow. Last year, same thing happened to them, no start, no engine turn over. No audible noise of fuel pump kicking on. Cannot get gear shift lever to move. No fuel gauge level working. Had it towed to a nearby small local garage and the owners had no clue; so I looked up on the saturn forums, trying to find a match of what was going to other saturn owners with this car. The closest I could surmise led me to the Body Control Module, so I took a bet and bought a rebuilt one (at considerable expense) and went to install it and then have it towed to the local Chevy dealer as only a GM dealer can reprogram the BCM for that particular car and it's VIN & list of options.

    Turns out the run of Saturn L300 BCM's have a failure of a cracked soldered wire inside the BCM, causing the no-start situation. The funny thing?

    After installing the BCM, I thought, what the hell, see if it starts, maybe it'll save tow of the Saturn to the Chevy dealer. And yep, it started. So Dad was able to drive it to the Chevy dealer and get it reprogramed.

    BCM failures are a known issue on the L300. So too is the CRANKSHAFT POSITION SENSOR.

    If you Google Pontiac Solstice Body Control Module failure, you'll find enough info to make your head spin and get more confused. But the BCM helps control the security system on the GM cars. When it fails, you aren't going anywhere. And Dad's situation was intermittent. One day, it'd not start, the next, it would. Seems looking at the Solstice forums a check of the BCM ground wires is a good place to go.

    One thing out of that fiasco was if I wanted to know the BCM & security system was functioning properly without incident is to simply place the key in the ignition cylinder......DO NOT TURN THE KEY ON.....just place the tip in the cylinder and you'll hear a distinct click on your door locks as apparantly the key is being recognized by the BCM as being the correct key.

    One more thing....if ever getting the BCM replaced, you will need to have both keys ready for the GM dealer so they can be programmed to the BCM.................Good luck

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    A woman at work has a PT Cruiser. It's been in the shop for over 7 weeks. Actually it's at a second shop now. They know there is an issue with the communication between the modules but they can't find it. Tried new battery cables. She is driving her new Beetle convertible now with no hope that they will every be able to get her car running.
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    BCM, CPS, MAP, CANBUS, KIDWEB...
    Good old times when starter just needed wack with a hammer to wake up.
    Last edited by P.J. Romano; 03-13-2017 at 11:13 PM.
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    Just Some Dude in Jersey My location The Scifi Guy's Avatar
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    I stopped by the shop and talked and relayed the info I had gathered to the mechanic. A new wrinkle was revealed: Pre-2009 Solstices used the CANBUS system, but my 2009 uses the newer GM LAN system....





    But, on the bright side, the mechanic seems to be zeroing in on the problem. He is, by the way, the guy that gets all the electronic troubleshooting jobs at the shop and he seemed to have an excellent grasp of all the devices and flow of things. I gave him the green light to replace modules as he saw fit. About $500 for a BCM and about $150 for the Theft Deterent module. He thinks everything is pointing to the theft module, so if he does end up replacing something it will likely be that item first. The thing about some connectors under the arm rest that are a known problem rings a bell for me. In recent months, leaning my elbow on that center console arm rest has caused a crack and small cave in to form under the vinyl. This is the only thing in the interior that has had an incident and it's recent timing coincides with my starting issue. So, he'll take a look at that. That's where we're at.
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    The cables under the armrest made sense when your theft icon will blink like here at point two!

    1. Once the system is armed, the security light will flash
    once every three seconds.
    2.If the security light is flashing twice per second, this
    means that a door is open.

    The door module is sitting behind the seats at the wall
    Last edited by norbertone.gt371; 03-13-2017 at 05:40 PM.

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    Über Genius My location First opel 1981's Avatar
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    On MY Opel, when it won't start, I use a wire with an alligator clip on each end and a screwdriver.

    NEENER!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Scifi Guy View Post
    I think you already sent me the Solstice Repair Manual. I am not going to work on this problem myself, though, so there is no immediate need for me to do research on this. If the mechanic cannot fix it, then I will have it towed to a GM dealer. I do not know what the situation is with the car right now, it might be fixed or it might not. I will stop by the shop when I get off of work and give him the information I have collected from you guys and I will find out where we are with this car repair.

    I am not happy with my SolstOpel anymore.

    Those new Miata/MX5's sure do look nice.

    Trade in?

    duuuuuuuuuuuuudde! The other day in the thread about Opel being sold by GM, you mentioned selling the solstopel.

    I was going to post the link to Miata mx5 website and how it looks like an Opel GT. Not to mention its a damn good car too.

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    Just Some Dude in Jersey My location The Scifi Guy's Avatar
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    A Solstice Coupe is supposed to be worth around $30K, maybe I could trade it even-steven for the GT version of the Mazda Miata MX5.




    Then rebadge it as an Opel........





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    Quote Originally Posted by The Scifi Guy View Post
    A Solstice Coupe is supposed to be worth around $30K, maybe I could trade it even-steven for the GT version of the Mazda Miata MX5.




    Then rebadge it as an Opel........




    For a GXP Coupe with arround 10K miles

    Pontiac Solstice Coupe GXP 2,0l als Sportwagen/Coupé in Puchheim
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    Your car uses the GM LAN system. Code readers will not read BCM's or "talk" on the LAN line between all the modules so that you can see a break in the communication. You need to ping a signal from one module as a starting point to see if it completes the circle ( signal is sent in both direction to and from what ever module you want to start with) then you will find what module is "open" or not completing the circle. Dealers would be the best place but other repair shops that are trained in the GM LAN system could be helpful.
    When a repair shop wants to replace 2 or more modules they appear to be guessing because they are not prone to fail in pairs.
    I would start with key FOB's and relearn procedure, have system scanned for BCM codes (A code reader will not do this) then have someone scan the LAN system for proper function.
    Good Luck, this can be a pain but can be fixed.
    Labor time for scanning should be 1-2 hrs flat rate and you get a written report (no guessing!). HTH
    John
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    Just to put it out there. The GTOs' BCM has a specific place that the wiring harness rubs on a piece of metal behind the glove box.

    It will cut the harness and then all sorts of fun things happen from No-starts to no-wipers, needles jump all over the place, etc.. etc..

    Possible you have something similar and when they did the radio they pulled on a wire that was just slightly worn..?
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    My latest update on this car problem is that things now seem to be pointing towards that wonky stereo system I had put in. A traveling techy dude with all the appropraite testing gizmos for all makes of cars came by and checked the car's comm system and all seems well, except the radio. I told the guy to pull the radio if that turns out to be the problem and I'll replace it. But, the car appears to be designed such that you HAVE to have a stereo in it or nothing will work(Onstar, turn signals, and other things only make sounds through the radio's speakers). He's at a point now where the car starts, but if he disconnects the stereo it won't. During my no start incidents the stereo also wouldn't come on. We'll wait and see.....

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