Stuck Bolt/Frozen Thread

icemangt71 · 10-20-2003

As you all may know i have attempted to do a v6 conversion well my question is a general question which applies to me and maybe manual guys too. Well here goes

As you all may know manual transmissions have both a drainage and a filler bolt well my filler bolt is stuck like there is no tommorrow. I have tried everything wd 40, pounding it like hell, unfortunatly the bolt is very weak so everytime i try to take it off it strippes more and more. Ok so some might say drill it out , however the tranny is made of aluminum and if i try to rethread it it may not work and then the tranny is trash so how can i take out the bolt and not damage the tread?

Maybe take it to a tranny shop?

Please help

RallyBob · 10-20-2003

Steel plug? I use this old trick, heat the plug/bolt with an oxy-acetylene torch (propane is not hot enough). Get it dull red, then touch a piece of wax to it, such as a candle. Let cool for at least 5 minutes, as the steel will have expanded in the case somewhat and tightened up. But, the wax will have turned to liquid, and through capillary action will run down all the threads. Should come right out with normal tools after cooling and contraction.

I use this method to remove steel coolant drain plugs from cast iron Opel blocks, and in 20 years of building Opels it has never failed me.

Bob

houserc · 10-21-2003

Bob,

I've got a stuck plug in a EFI thermostat housing. The housing is aluminum and the plug is steel. I have tried PJs penetrating oil, but have not had any success. I do know that the housing lived it's life on the Western coastal area of the UK. The housing was pretty pock marked from corrosion.

Will this help with the removal of this plug? (The heating and candle trick that is.) Or any other suggestions?

I had to drill out the steel bolts that held the casing together after they twisted off and I was not able to use an "easy out" to back them out. (It twisted off too) I then helicoiled them. So I know that they are pretty well fused to the housing.

Thanks in advance.

Chris

ddoyle · 10-21-2003

Bobs method works great. One note of caution just verify what metal your trans or anything else you may be heating with a torch is. Just received a report at our shop, many newer GM trucks are using magneisum for trans and transfer cases, they can catch on fire if exposed to flame, OUCH!!

DAN

icemangt71 · 10-21-2003

Man thats scary.I think mine is aluminum ill see if that cande trick will work. But first i will try my last idea using massive pliers and steel bars for extra leverage hopefully this will work cause ill have to save money to rent the torch.

show no go · 10-21-2003

Don't worry about buying the torch. I use the same trick all the time and about 80% of the time just warming the bolt enough to suck the wax in will work just fine. A propane torch works great and in many cases you only have to have enough heat to make the wax melt.
People think I'm nuts because I have a whole drawer in my toolbox filled with old candles. I haven't lost the battle with a bolt yet when using wax.
Good luck

Old Hippie · 10-21-2003

If I may inject a word of caution. It may be safer to pop the tranny out and work on a bench. Depends on your point of view, but 30 mins worth of time to remove it. May be better than to chance a oil fire. Plus gives you abetter view of whats going on.
My 2c's.

N61WP · 10-21-2003

Another little tidbit....if propane isn't hot enough, get a bottle of MAP gas, about $5 a bottle. Same disposable size as the propane and a hotter flame.
Jc

dsmith · 10-21-2003

Help, my upper control arm bolt in my GT is rusted fast and won't budge. Heat, WD-40, and a BFH have been applied. Any ideas out there?

West Coast GT · 10-21-2003

Never tried the candle trick - but I will the next chance I get.

Method I've always used, going on to the next step until one of them works:
A. Use a 6 point socket, box-end wrench, or impact socket.
B. Try the good old grunt effort.
C. Open a beer, cogitate some
D. Tap the rachet handle or wrench with a mallet to produce an impact like stress.
E. Cogitate some more.
F. Set up a steady vibration by using a steel hammer with which to strike the rachet handle or wrench.
G. Beat bloody hell out of the thing with anything and everything at hand.
H. Finish the beer, go inside, take a nap.

I. Finally, after cooling off, I use penetrating oil and gently set up a vibration to work the oil down the threads.
J. After it's soaked overnight, it usually comes off.

icemangt71 · 10-22-2003

I have tried everything its also on my work bench which i think is the problem slides around kinda hard to hold havent tried the wax thing yet but will soon i have beat the heall out of it tried soaking it in wd 40 the seal is so tight even that cant get in i have tried so much that the bolt size was originaly a 15mm nows its a 14mm thats how much i have stripped it gonna try the wax thing soon ill try propane first my buddy has that so hope it works

Thanks guys

kmon · 10-22-2003

Impact hammer! One of the best buys I've ever made. Rent or borrow one from a friend, I've almost always had them work like a charm (on a rare occasion it will twist the head off then you need to drill and tap it out). Size can be an issue in some tight spots, hopefully you can get it in there. Their are also impact hammers that are driven by beating on the end of them with a regual hammer, I sure like mine (both kinds)! Worse case you can take a chizel, beat the head off, and drill and tap a new bolt. Serious pain in the rump, hopefully you dont have to resort to that. Good luck to you.

--Did we lose some posts in this thread? Maybe I'm just tired...

dsmith · 10-22-2003

Hey, I should have mentioned I had an impact hammer on it too. The problem is that bolt is 10 to 12 inches long and you can't get any heat on the center section where it goes through the frame member. I'm beginning to think I don't need to change the bushings as bad as I thought. I have the front end out of the car, maybe I'll give Rally Bob's candle trick a try. If that works, it'll put him a little closer to saint hood with me!

icemangt71 · 10-28-2003

Thank you very much to who ever suggested the candle trick.
It worked like a charrm

At first i thought i was still stripping the bolt however after the candle trick it actually started to turn i was so excited. Now i can put my tranny up like namba suggested i also found a neighbor who welds for a living great

Thanks again

I ll let you know how it goes

BQS4 · 12-10-2003

Webster;
That is indeed a sprint manifold, but, as I an see from the pics, that they cut off the head pipe to save them from having to deal with the 6 attaching bolts, which majority of the time break off. But, there are a few tricks you can try to get these out, since it is off the car. One trick is the candle wax trick. Heating the bolts then wicking in candle wax to help the bolts ease out. $75 is still a bit much, it would be worth that much if it already had the bolts out clean.

jimsky · 12-10-2003

Personally I've never done the "wax trick". I believe the seized item is heated with a torch and the solid wax is touched to the rusted nut/bolt/stud. The wax melts and the capillary action of the liquid wax and the interface between the two metal items draws the liquid wax up. The heat/cool cycle assists in breaking the rust bonded items while the wax provides lubrication. People here swear by this technique.

BQS4 · 12-10-2003

Webster;
If that is an original head pipe attached to that manifold, those are bolts holding the remaining bit of head pipe on there, VERY rusty bolts.
Be careful!

opelgt73 · 12-10-2003

That is a sprint manifold but I believe that you need to grind off that little nub that is sticking up on the middle pipe.

As far as getting rusted bolts out I use a product called Kroil by Krano labs. I am not sure where you get it from, my late father left me with three cans of it so when I run out I dont know what to do! You just let it soak for about an hour and it will get about any bolt off, and for the really tough ones I get out a propane torch.

They are kinda rare so I don't think $75 is too much to ask for it, considering that the S/H is included.

GTJIM · 12-10-2003

Lucy thing - it looks reasonably sound from the pics.

When you get it see if there are studs and nuts or bolts holding the flange stub on - it looks like studs and nuts. If so gently remove the nuts by splitting them across a flat, parrallel to the stud, with a sharp cold chisel. This will let the flange/pipe stub come off and give you access to the threads for "waxing" and soaking in penetrating oil and leaving in a bucket of Coke (tm) - yep! The stuff you drink. Then you have a stud sticking out to try to hold and screw out.

If you try to take the nuts off the studs will just shear off.

If there are bolts - just soak the whole flange in a bucket of Coke (tm) for a week or two to loosen the rust. tHen heat and "wax" the ends you can see from above - might get five of the six out

GopelT · 12-10-2003

opelgt73,

Kroil is what we use in the steel mills to break nuts and bolts free every day of the week. Its great stuff. I'll help you out if you run out. Makes a great steak sauce too. LOL

Happying opeling

opelgt71 · 12-10-2003

I'd be interested in getting some of that "Kroil" too! Can it be bought over the internet?

Jim

opelbits · 12-11-2003

Kroil is straight from God himself!

Two types I have used are Sili-kroil and Kano-Kroil.

If you do a search on it, you usually get aircraft supply results. It is available, but I think it is no longer sold in aerosol form.

opelgtman1973 · 12-11-2003

Here's the company website for Kroil products:

http://www.kanolabs.com

They do still have aerosol products, and right now they have a special where you get a free can with any purchase. I just got some Penephite and a free Aerokroil. The shipping is expensive, though...pretty much made up for the free can. It worked great for me so far, but I didn't have a super challenging situation...yet

10-20-2003	#1 (permalink)
icemangt71 Opeler Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Palmdale California Posts: 88 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	Bolt that just wont come out any ideas? As you all may know i have attempted to do a v6 conversion well my question is a general question which applies to me and maybe manual guys too. Well here goes As you all may know manual transmissions have both a drainage and a filler bolt well my filler bolt is stuck like there is no tommorrow. I have tried everything wd 40, pounding it like hell, unfortunatly the bolt is very weak so everytime i try to take it off it strippes more and more. Ok so some might say drill it out , however the tranny is made of aluminum and if i try to rethread it it may not work and then the tranny is trash so how can i take out the bolt and not damage the tread? Maybe take it to a tranny shop? Please help

10-21-2003	#5 (permalink)
icemangt71 Opeler Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Palmdale California Posts: 88 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	Catch on fire? Man thats scary.I think mine is aluminum ill see if that cande trick will work. But first i will try my last idea using massive pliers and steel bars for extra leverage hopefully this will work cause ill have to save money to rent the torch.

10-21-2003	#9 (permalink)
dsmith Opeler Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: PA. Posts: 15 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	Help! stuck bolt! Help, my upper control arm bolt in my GT is rusted fast and won't budge. Heat, WD-40, and a BFH have been applied. Any ideas out there?

10-21-2003	#10 (permalink)
West Coast GT Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: San Francisco Bay Area Posts: 841 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	stuck bolt Never tried the candle trick - but I will the next chance I get. Method I've always used, going on to the next step until one of them works: A. Use a 6 point socket, box-end wrench, or impact socket. B. Try the good old grunt effort. C. Open a beer, cogitate some D. Tap the rachet handle or wrench with a mallet to produce an impact like stress. E. Cogitate some more. F. Set up a steady vibration by using a steel hammer with which to strike the rachet handle or wrench. G. Beat bloody hell out of the thing with anything and everything at hand. H. Finish the beer, go inside, take a nap. I. Finally, after cooling off, I use penetrating oil and gently set up a vibration to work the oil down the threads. J. After it's soaked overnight, it usually comes off.

10-22-2003	#11 (permalink)
icemangt71 Opeler Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Palmdale California Posts: 88 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	Beer sounds good I have tried everything its also on my work bench which i think is the problem slides around kinda hard to hold havent tried the wax thing yet but will soon i have beat the heall out of it tried soaking it in wd 40 the seal is so tight even that cant get in i have tried so much that the bolt size was originaly a 15mm nows its a 14mm thats how much i have stripped it gonna try the wax thing soon ill try propane first my buddy has that so hope it works Thanks guys

10-20-2003	#2 (permalink)
RallyBob Project 1450 supporter... Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Pleasant Valley, CT Posts: 6,655 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	Steel plug? I use this old trick, heat the plug/bolt with an oxy-acetylene torch (propane is not hot enough). Get it dull red, then touch a piece of wax to it, such as a candle. Let cool for at least 5 minutes, as the steel will have expanded in the case somewhat and tightened up. But, the wax will have turned to liquid, and through capillary action will run down all the threads. Should come right out with normal tools after cooling and contraction. I use this method to remove steel coolant drain plugs from cast iron Opel blocks, and in 20 years of building Opels it has never failed me. Bob

10-21-2003	#3 (permalink)
houserc 70's Opeler, back 4 more! Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Shawnee, KS (Kansas City Area) Posts: 405 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	Bob, I've got a stuck plug in a EFI thermostat housing. The housing is aluminum and the plug is steel. I have tried PJs penetrating oil, but have not had any success. I do know that the housing lived it's life on the Western coastal area of the UK. The housing was pretty pock marked from corrosion. Will this help with the removal of this plug? (The heating and candle trick that is.) Or any other suggestions? I had to drill out the steel bolts that held the casing together after they twisted off and I was not able to use an "easy out" to back them out. (It twisted off too) I then helicoiled them. So I know that they are pretty well fused to the housing. Thanks in advance. Chris

10-21-2003	#4 (permalink)
ddoyle Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: oakland,or Posts: 231 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	Bobs method works great. One note of caution just verify what metal your trans or anything else you may be heating with a torch is. Just received a report at our shop, many newer GM trucks are using magneisum for trans and transfer cases, they can catch on fire if exposed to flame, OUCH!! DAN

10-21-2003	#6 (permalink)
show no go Opeler Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Northern Minnesota Posts: 67 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	Don't worry about buying the torch. I use the same trick all the time and about 80% of the time just warming the bolt enough to suck the wax in will work just fine. A propane torch works great and in many cases you only have to have enough heat to make the wax melt. People think I'm nuts because I have a whole drawer in my toolbox filled with old candles. I haven't lost the battle with a bolt yet when using wax. Good luck

10-21-2003	#7 (permalink)
Old Hippie Senior Contributor Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Paxico, Ks. Posts: 787 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	If I may inject a word of caution. It may be safer to pop the tranny out and work on a bench. Depends on your point of view, but 30 mins worth of time to remove it. May be better than to chance a oil fire. Plus gives you abetter view of whats going on. My 2c's.

10-21-2003	#8 (permalink)
N61WP Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: New Orleans, La Posts: 533 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	Another little tidbit....if propane isn't hot enough, get a bottle of MAP gas, about $5 a bottle. Same disposable size as the propane and a hotter flame. Jc

10-22-2003	#12 (permalink)
kmon Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Laramie, WY Posts: 137 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	Impact hammer! One of the best buys I've ever made. Rent or borrow one from a friend, I've almost always had them work like a charm (on a rare occasion it will twist the head off then you need to drill and tap it out). Size can be an issue in some tight spots, hopefully you can get it in there. Their are also impact hammers that are driven by beating on the end of them with a regual hammer, I sure like mine (both kinds)! Worse case you can take a chizel, beat the head off, and drill and tap a new bolt. Serious pain in the rump, hopefully you dont have to resort to that. Good luck to you. --Did we lose some posts in this thread? Maybe I'm just tired...

10-22-2003	#13 (permalink)
dsmith Opeler Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: PA. Posts: 15 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	Hey, I should have mentioned I had an impact hammer on it too. The problem is that bolt is 10 to 12 inches long and you can't get any heat on the center section where it goes through the frame member. I'm beginning to think I don't need to change the bushings as bad as I thought. I have the front end out of the car, maybe I'll give Rally Bob's candle trick a try. If that works, it'll put him a little closer to saint hood with me!

10-28-2003	#14 (permalink)
icemangt71 Opeler Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Palmdale California Posts: 88 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	Hurray the trick worked Thank you very much to who ever suggested the candle trick. It worked like a charrm At first i thought i was still stripping the bolt however after the candle trick it actually started to turn i was so excited. Now i can put my tranny up like namba suggested i also found a neighbor who welds for a living great Thanks again I ll let you know how it goes

12-10-2003	#15 (permalink)
BQS4 Southern Red Neck Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Snellville, GA Posts: 5,058 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	Webster; That is indeed a sprint manifold, but, as I an see from the pics, that they cut off the head pipe to save them from having to deal with the 6 attaching bolts, which majority of the time break off. But, there are a few tricks you can try to get these out, since it is off the car. One trick is the candle wax trick. Heating the bolts then wicking in candle wax to help the bolts ease out. $75 is still a bit much, it would be worth that much if it already had the bolts out clean.

12-10-2003	#16 (permalink)
jimsky Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: East Northport, NY Posts: 244 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	Personally I've never done the "wax trick". I believe the seized item is heated with a torch and the solid wax is touched to the rusted nut/bolt/stud. The wax melts and the capillary action of the liquid wax and the interface between the two metal items draws the liquid wax up. The heat/cool cycle assists in breaking the rust bonded items while the wax provides lubrication. People here swear by this technique.

12-10-2003	#17 (permalink)
BQS4 Southern Red Neck Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Snellville, GA Posts: 5,058 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	Webster; If that is an original head pipe attached to that manifold, those are bolts holding the remaining bit of head pipe on there, VERY rusty bolts. Be careful!

12-10-2003	#18 (permalink)
opelgt73 crazy opeler Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 564 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	That is a sprint manifold but I believe that you need to grind off that little nub that is sticking up on the middle pipe. As far as getting rusted bolts out I use a product called Kroil by Krano labs. I am not sure where you get it from, my late father left me with three cans of it so when I run out I dont know what to do! You just let it soak for about an hour and it will get about any bolt off, and for the really tough ones I get out a propane torch. They are kinda rare so I don't think $75 is too much to ask for it, considering that the S/H is included.

12-10-2003	#19 (permalink)
GTJIM 4246 Post Club Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: New Zealand Posts: 5,524 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	Nuts! Lucy thing - it looks reasonably sound from the pics. When you get it see if there are studs and nuts or bolts holding the flange stub on - it looks like studs and nuts. If so gently remove the nuts by splitting them across a flat, parrallel to the stud, with a sharp cold chisel. This will let the flange/pipe stub come off and give you access to the threads for "waxing" and soaking in penetrating oil and leaving in a bucket of Coke (tm) - yep! The stuff you drink. Then you have a stud sticking out to try to hold and screw out. If you try to take the nuts off the studs will just shear off. If there are bolts - just soak the whole flange in a bucket of Coke (tm) for a week or two to loosen the rust. tHen heat and "wax" the ends you can see from above - might get five of the six out

12-10-2003	#20 (permalink)
GopelT Opelholic Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Lowell, In. Posts: 34 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	OOps opelgt73, Kroil is what we use in the steel mills to break nuts and bolts free every day of the week. Its great stuff. I'll help you out if you run out. Makes a great steak sauce too. LOL Happying opeling

12-10-2003	#21 (permalink)
opelgt71 Opeler Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Pinellas Park, FL Posts: 31 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	I'd be interested in getting some of that "Kroil" too! Can it be bought over the internet? Jim

12-11-2003	#22 (permalink)
opelbits Detritus Maximus Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: St. Louis MO Posts: 1,105 Classified Rating: 100% (1)	Kroil is straight from God himself! Two types I have used are Sili-kroil and Kano-Kroil. If you do a search on it, you usually get aircraft supply results. It is available, but I think it is no longer sold in aerosol form.

12-11-2003	#23 (permalink)
opelgtman1973 Opel Metalhead Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Southern California Posts: 68 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	Kano Labs Here's the company website for Kroil products: http://www.kanolabs.com They do still have aerosol products, and right now they have a special where you get a free can with any purchase. I just got some Penephite and a free Aerokroil. The shipping is expensive, though...pretty much made up for the free can. It worked great for me so far, but I didn't have a super challenging situation...yet

01-04-2004	#24 (permalink)
kwilford Über OpelGT.com Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada Posts: 3,773 Classified Rating: 0% (0)