Polarity Reversed? (was "Backwards???")

[CAPTHOOKS]

When i brought my gt home i tested everything and drove it around the neighborhood for a week.Everything work.....When i went to remove the battery i notice the Red postive lead going to the Frame and the Black negivtive lead going to the starter.I now this should not affect lights but wouldn't the starter or electric fuel pump rotate in the reverse direction? When everthing goes back together should i use the grounding strap located near the battery tray or run the ground to the frame rail near the motor mounts?
Capt.

[greensmurf20]

it doesnt matter what color the battery cables are. all that essentially matters is the positive post of the battery goes to the top of the starter, and the negative post of the battery is grounded against the frame, reguardless of color.

[Matt M240Z]

My car has the usual colors reversed also. The previous owner had it set up like this. Greensmurf20 is right though, red and black are just colors...what's important is where the wires actually go.

[CAPTHOOKS]

I understand a wire is a wire and color doesn't matter ,The wire from the positive post was connected to the Frame. How did this not cause anthing to short or worst fire

[computerthug]

It's an Antimatter battery...must be Starfleet surplus.

[jeff denton]

Forget the colors for a moment, now is your battery positive (+) terminal actually grounded to the frame, and you battery negative (-) terminal hooked to the starter? Are you certain? Really? Okay then your battery is charged backwards, yes indeed, it really can happen. You need to get this all straightened out...

[namba209]

Yeah, anti-matter, it doesn't matter or care which post is ground.

Seriously though, it is a wonder the starter worked correctly, the fan for the heater/defroster didn't spin backwards, and the most indicative would be the ammeter showing a negative amp flow. Unreal.

[jeff denton]

Actually, you wouldn't know the difference if the battery was charged backwards. If the battery was charged right and hooked up wrong, then most certainly the starter would turn backwards but the bendix would freewheel. The windshield wipers would work backwards but who would notice? Yes the heater motor would be in reverse, that might be noticeable...
The radio would broadcast instead of receive, oh wait, maybe I'm getting a little carried away...

[CAPTHOOKS]

Thanks Jeff, i never heard of a battery acting like that.I'm certain it was hooked up that way...The wipers did not work and i only turn the fan motor on to hear it run.I didn't try to transmit anything to the extra terrestrial world. Thanks.Capt

[baz]

remember folks it was not that long ago (jeepers im going to feel old when i say this) that cars came positive ground/earth in some countrys , i can remember having to flash the reg box on one of my old cars to change to negitive ground/earth ,when i could no longer get the right battery and no one made radios that worked both ways

[pastopel]

If your chassis is "hot" and their is a potential difference to the earth wouldn't you get shocked if your resistance was low enough, like in the rain?

For maintenance purposes wouldn't you want to change that condition? If somebody works on it that's unaware they could really mess things up! I know that if your heater blower is running backwards you won't get nearly the air as running forward. The reason is because the fan blades are made like the ones in a forced air furnace with the fins tilted to give maximum flow moving in one direction. If you've never seen one, the fans are drum shaped unlike a house fan. someone jump in and say what they are called I know but the old noggin ain't working.. By the way one thing I do know for sure is that "GREEN is GROUND the WORLD around." Anybody that works with electric will expect that!

[jeff denton]

No, the car can't shock you like that. Yes many cars and lots of trucks will have positive ground, that is something you need to know about before you mess with them. If you really want a challenge work on heavy equipment with both 12 and 24 volt systems on the same machine... Try jumpstarting a 24 volt tractor, I hope you know what you're doing!!
Cappy, double check your battery polarity, check your battery with a voltmeter. Make sure you have about 12 volts, not a negative 12 volts.

[namba209]

Oh boy, lots for me to answer here.

Baz, all Chrysler 6 volt systems were positive ground from day one to the change to 12 volts in 55.

Pastopel, straight DC will not shock you at all, but watch out for pulsating DC, ie., the spark plug and coil wires, they'll make you wish you were somewhere else.

Jeff, I knew that Ni-Cads would go to reverse polarity, but wasn't aware lead-acid would. I didn't have a problem with a 6 volt car and a complete 12 volt system for starting cars in the frozen tundra of NoDak. All I had to do was make sure the correct pole was grounded. I even ran the 12 volts to my starter one time with the spark plugs pulled from the engine and drove around the block on starter power only. Ahh the fun things you do when you're uneducated in the ways of things.

[soybean]

Jeff, I agree with you "If you really want a challenge work on heavy equipment with both 12 and 24 volt systems on the same machine... Try jumpstarting a 24 volt tractor, I hope you know what you're doing!!" Lots of nice sparks occur, done it. :o

Ron, a lot of smaller International tractors (100s and 140s) and some Allis Chalmers, a certain D-10 comes to mind, all still run 6 volt + ground. There again trying to jumpstart one of them, hooked up wrong, produces lots of nice sparks too.

Baz, I still have to flash the regulater on one particular IH 100 when the battery is replaced.

CAPTHOOKS, I really would get this sorted out quickly as pastopel said, maintenance wise for your benefit and others.
Jarrell

[jlthunder]

Originally Posted by pastopel If you've never seen one, the fans are drum shaped unlike a house fan. someone jump in and say what they are called I know but the old noggin ain't working..

I believe this is called a "squirrel cage fan". It looks like one of those wheels in a mouse cage.

Good thing the transmission wasn't in backwards, you would have only one forward gear and 4 reverse

Jeff

[Dan-MI]

As Namba said. Be careful with pulsating current. I was shocked once by a spark plug wire when I was a stupid 16 year old. My arm went numb for a few minutes.

[gtjames]

Im suprised it didnt damage the rectifier circuit in the alternator.

[computerthug]

Originally Posted by namba209 Pastopel, straight DC will not shock you at all, but watch out for pulsating DC, ie., the spark plug and coil wires, they'll make you wish you were somewhere else.

Ahhh, let me tell you a story...Once, many years ago, I was tinkering with a friend's 1971 Toyota Corolla, trying to iron out some engine malady I can no longer remember. I was leaning over the car, engine idling, fooling with the distributor timing, and I discovered two things in rather rapid and startling succession: One, there was a break in the insulation of one of the spark plug wires near my hand, which the electric pulse apparently preferred to the spark plug, and Two, the best grounding point from my body to the frame apparently was via my pants zipper where I was leaning over the radiator support....

[jeff denton]

Ouch! I dare anybody to top that one!
This thread reminds me of an old trick that supposedly would restore some life into a battery that has lost its capacity. Put a load on it to drain it down to zilch, charge it up backwards (reverse polarity), drain it back down to zilch again, and charge it in normal polarity.
Anyone ever heard of that one?
Battery technology has changed a lot in the last fifty years. Myself, I hate bad batteries. I like new ones, good ones, the expensive ones. You couldnt' even give me a brand new "cheap" battery...

[baz]

jeff i think that was the way to clean the plates way back before the tablets were made to do that , just dont try it with a sealed for life battery

[namba209]

Not exactly that way Jeff, but I do know in the rechargeable NiCad dry cells, they would get a spike that would grow through the insulating plastic and short out the cells, the cure was to nail them with a 12 volt source and the spike would arc itself away, making the battery useable again. Until the spike grew back that is. I would presume the same thing would occur with the lead plates and sponge lead plates in a lead acid battery. The reverse flow of electrons could eat away at the sulphation caused by normal charging and discharging that eats up the cells by depositing the sulphate on the floor of the battery shorting out the cells. I remember there was a product called VX-6 that was supposed to regenerate the batterys. I went even one better, and dumped the electrolyte, used baking soda and water to clean inside the battery, then put in new aircraft battery electrolyte and had a new battery. The specific gravity of aircraft battery electrolyte is significantly higher than automotive battery electrolyte. Of course now, all the aircraft use wet cell NiCads, and Potassium Hydroxide won't work in car batterys. Now if I can just find some, I can regenerate my larger 20 NiCad wet cells and won't need to have the access panel in Willit? for battery replacement through the bottom of the belly pan.

[pastopel]

Originally Posted by namba209 Pastopel, straight DC will not shock you at all, but watch out for pulsating DC, ie., the spark plug and coil wires, they'll make you wish you were somewhere else.

Please help me understand here?? I take a 9 volt battery and hold it to my tongue What is the tingle I feel if not electron flow??

If electrons are negative and positrons are positive how come electrical prints show a source voltage as positive and ground as negative?? Don't negative charged particles flow to the earth? Really I want to know!:o

[GTJIM]

Electrons are "negatively" charged so come out of the "negative" terminal.
Current in a negative earth system actually travels from the negative terminal to the positive terminal. It is a hang over from the "positve earth" systems that we think of the current flowing in the other direction.
In reality the body of the car is a large source of electrons that flow back thorugh the wiring system to the positive terminal of the battery. It was found that hooking the battery up in this "negative earth" direction gave better distribution of electricity because the whole body of a metal car acts as an electron provider.

BTW: Positrons are only found in Nuclear accelerators - if you can make a positron battery then your billionare status is assured!

[namba209]

Pastopel, according to my aircraft electrical instructor at A & P school, and this could open up a whole bucket of worms, what happens when you stick a 9 volt dry cell to your tongue is this: You are overloading the nerve endings in your tongue with excess volts and short circuits cause the tingling. Sorta like hitting the "crazy bone" in your elbow. Because there is a lot of saliva on your tongue, the current flow is much greater than if you just touched the contacts with your finger. At least that's what he said.

[baz]

jim how long do think it would take to have a hole car flow into the battery ?