Full frame on a GT Convertible

[vikesman101]

Hello all, I know I don't post much on here but life keeps me busy. Well I found some time to work on another GT project. I bought a 73 from a man who no longer wanted it, I got a good deal although it is a bit rusty, its worth saving. I have been a big fan of Dallas's Spyder and was fortunate enough to be able to meet Dallas and see his car at Carlsile this year, so I wanted to build one as well. Now not a 100% copy but keep the same basic look. It will have to be an automatic as my lovely wife cant drive a stick (yes I have tried to teach her ). The body work is no problem for me, I will have that rust handled in a couple of weeks, but I cant find any specifics on how to frame a GT. I did search but no tech data or pics came up. Does anyone have any information they could share? I don't want to have to punt on this one. lol I drove the car home and the next day disassembled the eniter car and hung it from the rafters in a "sling" (yes the rafters are reinforced to handel this) makes the body work easy. I will keep posting on the progress of this project, it is my goal to have this and my 71 ready for Carlsile 07.

[heimue]

Since you obviously have to take the rocker panels off anyway, try to shoot for a inside-the-rocker-panels solution. I did this on my Kadett, when I previously planned on making it a convertible. I have built a solid frame in the car, which is completely invisible from the outside or underside.
Here a short description: put rectangular pipes inside rocker panels, make brackets/sheet metal parts to connect them to the front and rear frame parts. Sounds easy, doesn't it... ;-). See this post for pics.
Honestly, I doubt that it makes a lot of more work in your situation. If you had a rustfree car with nice rocker panels, I wouldn't recommend it.

Dieter

[vikesman101]

Thanks Dieter

Thats a really good idea, I will look into doing that. It should add enough strength to keep the car from bending or flexing. As bad as the pics are, the floor and higher then the rockers are all rust free and strong. By the way Dieter, if it dosent work........ "Its all your fault"

Your friend
Tom

[Gary]

Tom,
My first thought after seeing your GT suspended like that is what about body sag when you start on the rockers? With the doors off, you lose any reference as to their fit and it wouldn't take much for it to shift. Wouldn't you be better off building a stand for it?

[PBR Allstar]

I'd temporarily brace the car from the interior using scrap tubing while you're cutting off rockers and what not, same way they do it when they chop the top off a car.

[RallyBob]

I have to agree with everyone else's sentiments. You should 'shore up' the car so it doesn't settle when you cut the rockers away. Don't want it to tweak.

Bob

[GTJIM]

You have some extensive repairs to do there and - yes - it all needs to be well braced before removing structural met ...... ER ... Rust!

May I suggest a 2 X 4 box section frame bolted to the front and rear suspension pick-up points. With a bit of skill you could make some pivot bearings and a-frame stands each end so that the whole body could be 'rotiseried' into position for ease of working on the underside of the car.
With the amount of work you have to do that would be well worth it.

[blancojp]

Hello all!
I did received several years ago the instruction on how to brace the vehicle for a convertible or targa conversion. The object is to extend the jacking points inwards towards the chassis using a piece of 1x1" square tubing. The rear package tray needs another piece of 1x1 sqare tubing welded on the inside for the length of the rear tray support. The area where the a/c blower unit goes has also a pre-made channel welded from side to side. The exposed rear lower corners get a corner unit welded to fill the gap. And last but not least, two sections welded to the inside rockers from front to rear. The vehicle needs to be suspended by the chassis and not the body. I know this sounds weird considering the vehicle is a unibody but while suspended by both rail members, the initial deflection is very minor. This is what the TUV modification recommends.

What we do is very simple, extend the jacking points to the chassis the same way described above. Remove gas tank and cut off the gas tank shield below the tank. Weld a piece of 16ga sheet metal on the bottom tray area from side to side. Weld a piece of 16ga sheetmetal covering the area where the spare tire goes. Install the tank though the bottom and create a removable shield for tank servicing. The sheet metal you welded will give the assembly major strength since now you have two solid areas which will not allow twisting.

On this car however you have to fix all of the rusty rockers first before you even try to cut off any roof materials.

[jeff denton]

See guys, maybe I'm not crazy after all, Vikesman hangs his car from the ceiling too!
Yes it needs to be on a jig when this cutting starts.
My way of doing this is shown in a thread called "Rocker Panels, Speedway Style" from a few years ago. It came out really strong and is the base for the roll bar, which I wish Dallas had in the Spyder...

[vikesman101]

OK OK

I get the whole jig idea, but the car weighs just about nothing and I am removing only the rust that wasn't holding anything anyway. The forces acting on the car are much less then if it were on the ground with its tires as it has been stripped. I have done this before with no bad effects. However, point taken, I will set up a support under the tranny tunnel, better safe then sorry. I did notice on Dieter's rockers that he used 2 pieces of steel to form the "frame", it appears that would work best on a GT as well.
Jeff, I to have thought of a roll bar idea and think that using the new "frame" to attach it to would make the whole thing even stronger. Well I am still cutting out all the rust and should be started on the "frame" by next week. I might buy stock in POR before I buy what I need POR = a Minnesota Opel's best friend. The countdown is at 276 days.... I better get my butt going on this one.

[vikesman101]

OK, engine/tranny have been cleaned and painted, as have the rear end, engine cross member and the front end assembly. I already pressure washed the engine compartment and will sand blast it on Friday. A few needed parts will be ordered soon but the project is moving right along. I will pick up the tube steel on Friday and begin to lay out the "frame", hopefully by the end of next week it will be ready for reassembly and put back on 4 wheels.
I painted all the parts except the engine/tranny with POR, I wasn't sure if you could use it on an engine, the can did not say if it could handle the heat.
More pic's to follow soon.

[vikesman101]

OK here are the pic's I promised, everything is painted in POR except the engine/tranny, and looks good. I was not able to get the tube steal yet and this week doesn't look good either. I will make every effort to get the "frame" done as soon as possible. My lovely wife has picked her color, a lime-emerald green, a bit eye popping but not bad. She said some newer Mustangs have a color like this. More updates to follow.

[baz]

have a look for posts by YXY on his then targa and the TUV spec work he had done , then the work he got done in wales to do it right when he got it back , i think there are photos of what was done in the thread ,IMMC

[GTJIM]

I see it has an auto trans too - rare and worth keeping IMHO

BTW: Well worth fitting a new front and rear seal in the trans while it is out and can be got at easily as they do deteriorate if the car has been sitting for a while and has a few miles on it.

[vikesman101]

OK, I finally got around to picking up the steel for the "frame", it fits well and should be completely installed by next weekend. This for me is the hardest part, the body work is easy for me to do as is most of the mechanical. My hope is to have her back on her "feet" in 7-10 days, then start the Spyderizing. It will run the engine stock as well as most of the suspension, money slows all that down, I am only replacing parts that are bad, no upgrades yet. In time, I will get it fully upgraded to possibly include an Echo tech engine....... if that can be done. Carlsile is the goal!

More pic's soon

Tom

[soybean]

Originally Posted by vikesman101 I painted all the parts except the engine/tranny with POR, I wasn't sure if you could use it on an engine, the can did not say if it could handle the heat. More pic's to follow soon.

Sorry I didn't read this sooner, but the engine and tranny can be painted with POR-15 and then covered with their engine enamel. That's what I did with mine. See the enclosed picture. HTH, Jarrell

[vikesman101]

OK, I used 1" x 3" square tube to run the length of the car inside of each rocker. It fits good and should be plenty to remove the flex. The outside 2 bolt holes in the engine cross member mount area on both sides were rusted gone, so I fabricated a new mount plate which has the added bonus of being welded to the 1" x 3" tube. This should really tie it all together. In the back I made a plate that runs from the trailing arm mount on the car to the spring perch, these areas are strong and good to weld to, then I tied that back to the 1" x 3" tube. Also, as this car will get a roll bar so there will be even more strength in the rear where they are most likely to flex.
Then I took care of a bit of rusty floor, and belly pan as well as any other rust I found. I made some new rocker panel covers and will be installing them this weekend. I am a bit off my schedule but that tends to happen now and again, no worries. I will get more pic's soon.

Tom

[hrcollinsjr]

Originally Posted by vikesman101 ... big fan of Dallas's Spyder ... I cant find any specifics on how to frame a GT.

Check with Keith Lundholm aka. Opelspyder about the reinforcements that were done on Dallas' Spyder. I believe he still has pics posted somewhere of the project.

Harold

[jeff denton]

The strength is all in the rollcage. I started mine with external rocker stiffeners, yours is internal, but as long as you have a good solid mount for the rollcage you're there. Sounds like you have a good start.
On mine, wherever there was a chassis/unibody/floorpan joint, the area was reinforced into a rollcage mounting point. Whatever it takes to get a good solid mount... As I recall, we ended with 23 points where the cage attached to the GT.
And yes, we have crash tested it. Repeatedly. The weak point is discussed in my thread about Control Rod brackets. Oops. Lessons are learned...

[vikesman101]

OK here are some of the pic's.

First, this view is of the bracing we did under the front engine cross member mount, it was rotted out so I fab'd a new one. All the different angles makes this very strong.

Second, this is the mount we created in the rear, welded to the jack point and the spring perch as they are strong and thick to weld to. This is in no way finished, it is not enough to take the flex out, the rest will be done by the roll bar I designed.

Third, the view of the 1" x 3" tube steel, in hind sight, it should have been 1" x 2 1/2" as I will have to modify the new rocker cover to clear the tube. This however, wont matter as this car will get side pipes. There are a few welds to hold it to the body but mostly those are bonus points as it is secure front and back.

Last, just another view of the same, note the repair to the floor, only soft spot on that side.

Now some grinding and fitting of the new rocker covers I made and it should look good and be very strong.

More to follow as I will push it hard this week.

Tom