shock advice

[yellowhammer]

They don't make Bilsteins for a 74 Manta do they? can't find anybody that has some. The car will be rallied offroad and Koni's won't take that much of a beating, and I don't like Tokicos much... any suggestions?

Also, does anybody make, or is there a part swap, to give me tighter lock-to-lock steering?

[RallyBob]

Originally Posted by yellowhammer They don't make Bilsteins for a 74 Manta do they? can't find anybody that has some. The car will be rallied offroad and Koni's won't take that much of a beating, and I don't like Tokicos much... any suggestions?

Not in this country, nope. But you can cross-reference to something that will fit. Nissan 2wd pickup front shocks ('86 vintage or so), and Ford T-bird rear shocks ('88 vintage or so) will physically fit the Manta with some minor mods to the bottom eyelet bushings. Alternatively they are still available in Europe, but you gotta pay if you want to play

Or you can go 'full custom' and adapt some off-road shocks like I did, probably cheaper in the long run....owner rebuildable, revalveable, and pressure adjustable.
http://www.opelgt.com/forums/showthr...highlight=turd
Or right to the point here:
http://www.opelgt.com/forums/showpos...8&postcount=34

Also, does anybody make, or is there a part swap, to give me tighter lock-to-lock steering?

None in the US. There are at least two brands available from Sweden which are direct fit (the guts anyway), this gives 2.6 turns instead of 3.9. I have successfully modified the Quaife '2.4 turn' Manta 'B' guts to fit the Manta 'A' rack housing, by shortening the rack itself, retapping one end, and boring the bushings to fit the slightly larger rack OD.

Alternatively you can fit a steering quickener inline, which you can order from any circle-track shop in either 1.5:1 ratio (giving 2.6 turns) or a 2.0:1 ratio (giving a heavy 1.95 turns lock to lock!). I am preparing one of these setups for a car this weekend, perhaps I can take some pics and post them.

HTH!
Bob

[PROPEL]

Today I found an old pair of Bilsteins, which I *believe* came off the front of my Manta 15 years ago. I remember swapping them out because they rode much too hard for the street.

Here's the part # off them....

2420485H000

[yellowhammer]

Thanks Propel, I'll check that out... Bob's set-up is very, very nice, however I'm not ready for all that (yet). Just want some decent shocks to rallycross on as I slowly develop the car into a stage rally machine.

[neuropel]

Bob,
Did the steering quickener you referenced below work out for you?

Originally Posted by RallyBob None in the US. There are at least two brands available from Sweden which are direct fit (the guts anyway), this gives 2.6 turns instead of 3.9. I have successfully modified the Quaife '2.4 turn' Manta 'B' guts to fit the Manta 'A' rack housing, by shortening the rack itself, retapping one end, and boring the bushings to fit the slightly larger rack OD. Alternatively you can fit a steering quickener inline, which you can order from any circle-track shop in either 1.5:1 ratio (giving 2.6 turns) or a 2.0:1 ratio (giving a heavy 1.95 turns lock to lock!). I am preparing one of these setups for a car this weekend, perhaps I can take some pics and post them. HTH! Bob

[RallyBob]

Originally Posted by neuropel Bob, Did the steering quickener you referenced below work out for you?

It is nothing new, I've been doing it for years for racing cars. I never thought to follow up on it (that and my digital camera is broken). But yes, it works. The u-joints are the biggest expense, I hate re-using crappy OEM u-joints, they tend to either have slop in them or they bind up. But at $50 per u-joint, it gets expensive fast!

[Manta Rallier]

Hey Hammer,

Go with Bob's application advice on the shocks; we rallied for years on mid-80's T-bird rear shocks; I never found the Nissan app; that is good.

We rallied Opels on Bilsteins and KYB Gas-Adjusts; the KYB's were weaker but adequate (just), and should be fine for rallycrossing, unless you have really rough course.

If you are sticking with stock spring types, we ended up using 5" diameter stock car springs front and rear, and getting free lengths as needed. The stock Opel spring diameter is a bit smaller, and the front lower perch was a worry, but we just ground a bevel on the bottom coil of the front spring and it fit in well and never popped out, even with some really hard hits and jumps in a variety of rallies in the eastern US. We used 240 lbs/in in front and rear; it probably would have been more ideal to use 280/300 lbs in in the front; if you use the higher rate, the Bilsteins shock damping rate will match up better. The rears were a bit stiff for the KYB shock rate (it was fine for the Bilsteins), so maybe 200-220 would be better. Also, the free length of 240 lbs/in with a good ride height and with the sligthly longer T-bird rear shocks allowed the rear springs to 'just' get loose on the spring perches at full droop, but they never popped out there either!

We are going with coilover Bilsteins from JVL for the new rally project. We'll try to fit the rears in the stock towers with appropriate reinforcement; stay tuned for that. The fronts will go on a full new front suspension design that will go in the locations of the stock front end; the objective is to get better suspension geometry and build a simpler but stronger front crossmember. We'll be glad to share if it works out.

Regards,
Mark B. (we were introduced at Rally TN through Wilson....)
PS: Do you think you would be up for coming up to work at Rally WV next year? It looks like mid July, though that will be finalized in the next week or so; Shea Serian from B'ham came up this past summer and had a good time. We could certainly use your help; we want to form a 3rd stage crew this coming year.

[Rally Manta]

Mark,

Yes, that is me you met at rally TN.... I was so proud that I finished that rally! The Scirocco is fun, but even with the supercharger I think it needs more pow-a. I'm afraid to do the typical cam,chip,pully cause I don't want to blow the charger- it's been happily puffing along at 7psi and I don't want to mess with that for now...

anyway, back on subject- Thanks, I have the old tired org. motor running now with only the 32/36 webber keeping it from being a 100% stock original car... even bought it from the original owner. I'm pretty much through with the racing this year except for a divisional rallycross in Birmingham in Dec. I need to make to chench the SouthEast championship. hopefully I can start really doing something with this Manta now instead of just looking at it. for giggles I will dyno it soon to get a starting point. It needs pretty much everything in the brakes gone thru and all suspension as well needs to be done. most likely at first just springs and Tbird/Nissan shocks, and will likely get the ratio quickener Bob spoke of for the steering.

[Manta Rallier]

OK, very good. Just my opinion, but the steeing quickener is about the last thing on my mind for rallying a RWD car. Maybe for autocorss or even rally crosss, but if you're drivning a RWD rally car right, you don't make NEARLY as much input on the steering as for FWD or AWD. I'd do the shocks and then move onto springs.

BTW, Celica moved out of the garage under it's own power today and the Texas Manta went for conversion to the 'new' rally car; happy to reach this point!

Keep July 14th open for Rally WV; I would like to have you there!

Regards,
Mark B.

[wvonkessler]

John:

Attached is the Bilstein Motorsports Suspension Catalog. It has a bunch of Opel specific dampers for models ranging from the Ascona B to the Kadett E. I have been able to order part numbers out of this catalog from both RD Enterprises (www.shox.com) and CDOC (www.cdoc.com) upon request. They won't turn up in normal channels.

I don't now how similar the Ascona is to the Kadett C, but those are certainly in there.

Wilson

P.S. Mark, give me a call. I've got a lead on a sweet Ascona roller with the wide wheel flares if you are interested.

[DESTEC]

My Opel GT was actually used on a Bilstein ad--once.

The GT looks still modern next to the BMW and boxy Volvo doesn't it? And all cars of that same time frame, doesn't it. (he rhetorically asks)

jj

[DESTEC]

Picture never made it-mayhaps now.

[Manta Rallier]

Originally Posted by wvonkessler John: Wilson P.S. Mark, give me a call. I've got a lead on a sweet Ascona roller with the wide wheel flares if you are interested.

You're an evil tempter, Wilson. Dialing now........

[wvonkessler]

Originally Posted by DESTEC My Opel GT was actually used on a Bilstein ad--once. The GT looks still modern next to the BMW and boxy Volvo doesn't it? And all cars of that same time frame, doesn't it. (he rhetorically asks) jj

(and stays quiet about the Escort . . .)

[wvonkessler]

Originally Posted by yellowhammer They don't make Bilsteins for a 74 Manta do they? can't find anybody that has some. The car will be rallied offroad and Koni's won't take that much of a beating, and I don't like Tokicos much... any suggestions? Also, does anybody make, or is there a part swap, to give me tighter lock-to-lock steering?

Sellholm Tuning has shocks and springs (and they make great stuff):
http://www.sellholm.se/bilstein1.pdf
http://www.sellholm.se/data.asp?cid=15

Fram means front.
Bak means back.
Kort is short.
Lang means long.

[Manta Rallier]

Thanks, Wilson; that is good info. With 600 Kr = approx $83 USD, this is worth looking at. John, your Manta A rear shocks are the same as the Ascona A. Based on experience, I would look at the long rear shocks. Get some dimensions.

Regards,
Mark B.

[Rally Manta]

Well, I've been off my project again.... but the car now runs, stops (all new brakes) , and not too much bouncy-bouncy.. I'm probably gonna finish off whatever the shocks are that are on the car this weekend at a RallyCross and then look at getting some shocks and springs...

Mark, I'll try my best to make Rally WV this summer, but if so it'll likely be in the Scirocco not the Manta.... but I DO have 120' of 1.75 tube sitting on the racks ready to be bent up, so who knows.