Quaife Differential

[blancojp]

Howdy All!
I hope everyone had a good Holiday with family and friends.

Does any one know what the actual meaning of the first two numbers on a Quaife LSD differential means?

I spoke to Quaife about it yesterday and they were very very vague in their description. They went as far as to contradict themselves in several occasions. If we can narrow this down, I believe I have a very low cost solution ($350 or so) to add an LSD unit to the Opel housing.

[FrankDaTank]

Hello,
I Ordered the Quaife Unit last year, Not sure what part number it was.
It's the one they list as for Opel Manta/GT.

The only issue is that it requiresyou use a set of 3.65 Gears not the 3.44 that the GT comes with. So besides the money spent on the LSD unit you need to budget for a set of 3.65 gears, if yu can find any.

http://www.opelgt.com/photos/data/500/QuaifeZ.JPG

I have the Part number at home and could look it up for you by tomorrow if it helps you.

[opelwasp]

Originally Posted by blancojp very low cost solution ($350 or so) to add an LSD unit to the Opel housing.

Could it be the Phantom Grip LSD conversion kis at JEGS? They have one listed for the Manta Phantom Grip of Florida - Get A Grip! ($299.95 list) Jegs should have them for about $270

[blancojp]

I think we are getting off track here a bit.
I know what the part number is for the Opel, I have their complete catalog and have purchased many units from them in the past. The Phantom grip is just a working gimmick which falls appart under heavy HP applications during cornering. Believe me, I know this for a fact and they are about 17 miles away from where I am.

The part number on a Quaife unit is XX-XXX-XXX. The second set of three numbers is usually a 390 which denotes a differential product and the last set of three numbers is the actual differential model. The first set of two numbers should be the car's make/model. If what I believe is true and there is nothing else hidden within the number, there can be lots of usable options to install an LSD unit on the Opel rear end case.

As an example, yesterday an old customer came in with his MGB and he has a Honda Civic Helical LSD installed. These are about $300, they are very strong and also very common.

[opelwasp]

If thats the case that would be great.

[opelwasp]

Originally Posted by blancojp I know what the part number is for the Opel, I have their complete catalog and have purchased many units from them in the past. The Phantom grip is just a working gimmick which falls appart under heavy HP applications during cornering. Believe me, I know this for a fact and they are about 17 miles away from where I am.

Would this product work good for a street car that does spirited driving instead of high HP racing?

[2 Fast 4 U]

Originally Posted by opelwasp Would this product work good for a street car that does spirited driving instead of high HP racing?

sprinting from one light to an other are we??

[neuropel]

According to the website, the application for the GT/Manta/Ascona 400 is 45.309.150. Have a look at this site and you can get the full run-down of numbers and perhaps figure out the code?

Quaife Differential Application List - Autotech (949) 240-4000

Todd K.

EDIT - I see you mentioned that you already know the Quaife number and have a complete catalog. Why not post what's on your mind and see if anyone in the collective has tried it already? This sounds like a very promising option if it works out. Sorry for the mix-up above.

[CDN OpelNut]

I was poking around the Quaife site and I noticed on the technical drawing for the Opel GT diff that the application is also noted as being for the Isuzu Piazza (Impulse in North America).

Is there any hope that Piazza/Impulse part would be a direct fit?

[GTJIM]

If you go to the Quaife web site and click on the Opel ATB part number this page displays:

Opel GT Quaife ATB differential - Quaife Engineering

Now click on Technical Drawing and a dimensioned drawing of the unit displays with the note - "Used in Opel Manta/Gt/Ascona & Isuzu Piazza RWD"

The dimensions may be of use in checking if any other LSD unit will fit the Opel/Isuzu diff housing .......

[baz]

Originally Posted by CDN OpelNut I was poking around the Quaife site and I noticed on the technical drawing for the Opel GT diff that the application is also noted as being for the Isuzu Piazza (Impulse in North America). Is there any hope that Piazza/Impulse part would be a direct fit?

maybe a read of this would help
http://www.opelgt.com/forums/clutch-...-rear-end.html

[blancojp]

I spent a few hours yesterday downloading drawings and I believe there are several units that have possibilities. It was interesting though since most of the units that are a possible fit and can be made to work with the Opel housing are mostly from front wheel drive Jap cars.

I guess the article " Rice(ing) your Opel" is looking alot better now...

[Manta Rallier]

Be aware that the Quaife non-plate diffs do not work when one wheel is off the ground or on a very slick surface like ice; all the torque goes to the free wheel, which does you no good. Use it only if your application insures that both wheels have some traction. It is not a good substitute for a plate-type diff in very slick or rough conditions.

I looked at the link that GTJim referenced: at a 550 pound price, it does not seem like a bargain to me.

Regards,
Mark B.

[RallyBob]

Originally Posted by Manta Rallier Be aware that the Quaife non-plate diffs do not work when one wheel is off the ground or on a very slick surface like ice; all the torque goes to the free wheel, which does you no good. Use it only if your application insures that both wheels have some traction. It is not a good substitute for a plate-type diff in very slick or rough conditions. I looked at the link that GTJim referenced: at a 550 pound price, it does not seem like a bargain to me. Regards, Mark B.

Mark is correct, a Quaife is useless for gravel and ice. Marginally okay for autocrossing, especially bad if the car is set up with stiff bars and tends to lift an inside wheel. Without both tires on the ground, there is no way to sense torque, and then the diff acts like an open diff.

Bob

[namba209]

The previous posts prompt me to ask, is the ZF posi I have similar or did I get a better setup? I know the Auburn posi on the monza works as advertised, I don't have a lot of wheel spin anymore unless I really get on the gas. I'm hoping for the same on Willit? with the ZF.

[RallyBob]

Originally Posted by namba209 The previous posts prompt me to ask, is the ZF posi I have similar or did I get a better setup?

The ZF is a clutch-type differential, not a torsen-style all-gear setup like the Quaife. You won't have the same issues, but I suspect you won't be off-roading or ice racing your GT any time soon anyway.

[neuropel]

Interesting topic!

From comments thus far, is one type preferred for street versus Auto-X? Also, will the Quaife and the ZF hold up well to a high torque/high hp engine?

Other threads here would indicate it's easier and cheaper to have other axles (i.e. toyota, GM) shortened and fitted - plus they have a good aftermarket support for whatever gear ratios and braking one might want. I'm still confused as to what the $350 option is? Are you saying there are abundant Quaife diffs for $350 that we can drop in to fit the Opel housing?

Todd

[oppositelock]

Originally Posted by RallyBob Mark is correct, a Quaife is useless for gravel and ice. Marginally okay for autocrossing, especially bad if the car is set up with stiff bars and tends to lift an inside wheel. Without both tires on the ground, there is no way to sense torque, and then the diff acts like an open diff. Bob

Yeah, I discovered this ten years ago when I built a Sierra Cosworth 4x4 rally car out of a Merkur XR4Ti body for a customer. No expense was spared with this, lot's of Group A parts, etc. We had some sponsorship from Quaife, so everything in the gearbox and diffs was from them. Straight-cut dog gearset, Quaife ATB diffs front, center, and rear, etc. In all, over $17,000 worth of drivetrain parts. Of course, on the very first rally the customer rolls the car and busts a driveshaft. Boom, the car is dead in the water, won't move. An all wheel drive car and it won't move because one driveshaft is broken! If the car had had a normal center diff it still would have gotten drive to the rear wheels. Quaifes are no good for loose surface rallying.

[namba209]

Originally Posted by RallyBob The ZF is a clutch-type differential, not a torsen-style all-gear setup like the Quaife. You won't have the same issues, but I suspect you won't be off-roading or ice racing your GT any time soon anyway.

You're right Bob, except for one thing, kinda. With all the cars here in SoCal dumping oil mist on the roads, if and when it rains, the roads are just like ice skating rinks. It was one of the things I had to impress on newbies transferring here from other places, who thought they could drive in the rain. One statistic that is voiced on the news shows here is the accident rate goes from about 50 per day to close to and sometimes over 1000 when it rains. Unreal.

[GTJIM]

One major advantage of both the Quaife (Torsen style) and ZF (clutch type) Limited Slip units is that they replace the fragile Opel spider and side gears with much stronger components. These are the first bits to 'blow' when wheel spinning an Opel diff.

More LSD info:

Torsen Type: Superior torque rating of both the diff and the ring/pinion over the early unit. If longevity is an issue the Torsen is hands down the winner since it will also never wear out. It's action is superior to the clutch type LSD's for auto-X situations because it is basically an open diff until about 2/3's the way through the corner then it locks the *outside* wheel to about 40-45%. The Torsen action helps prevent a push in super tight corners. The one downside of the Torsen is that if one wheel is completely off the ground (zero traction) then the charactoristics of the Torsen will make it basically an open diff, both wheels have to have at least some traction for the unit to function properly. .

Competition Clutch Type: Not all that great in auto-X situations because it can cause a push at corner entry and power-on corner exit since it is always in a lock state. Better for drag launches and track events where you will be accelerating in more of a strait line than in auto-X.

The Torsen T2-R upgraded unit does deal with one-wheel loss of traction now.


Torsen T2R

Torsen's T2R RaceMaster Traction Differentials are ideally suited for rear wheel drive, truck, SUV, C-Clip, and high performance applications. The patented EQUVEX™ parallel axis gear configuration provides better management of gear separation forces resulting in low backlash and quiet operation.
Unlike conventional speed-sensing, limited slip differentials, TORSEN T2-R is a full time torque sensing, torque biasing system. Torque and differentiation are continuously managed between the two axles and biased instantaneously according to variable road conditions. TORSEN T2R's patented parallel gearing system is designed to perform for the life of the vehicle.

The addition of preloading to the TORSEN T2R allows the differential to remain locked, providing torque to both wheels under low torque inputs. This allows improved mobility and traction under extreme conditions. TORSEN T2R can be built with or without clutches which allows the Torque Bias Ratio (TBR) to be tailored to individual needs. In addition, it is compatible with electronic traction control, providing the ultimate in traction management systems.

MULTIFUNCTION CAPABILITIES
The TORSEN T2R is an advanced multifunction traction differential providing continuous, uninterrupted torque output, torque biasing, and differentiation in one integral unit. Since it is preloaded, it is capable of remaining locked with low torque inputs, enhancing traction and mobility under extreme split µ conditions. It is always active, responding instantly to torque feedback from variable driving conditions.

ENHANCED AND COMPETITIVE PERFORMANCE
The TORSEN T2R's capability to immediately respond to variable road conditions not only provides better traction, it also enhances the general performance of a vehicle. There is a marked improvement in total tractive effort as compared to open or conventional limited-slip differential equipped vehicles. In addition, the exceptional efficiency of the T2R allows the engine's torque output to be used more effectively, delivering more horsepower to the road. The combined improvement in traction and the augmented power results in a nimble yet sure-footed vehicle that provides better handling, increased acceleration and an improved margin of safety.


T-2R APPLICATIONS
Due to the preload springs, the TORSEN T-2R will stay locked with low torque inputs. This allows the vehicle to maintain drive, and thus momentum and mobility, during extreme conditions such as inside wheel spin or lift in a corner, or starting from a complete stop on split µ grade. When the ring gear torque overcomes the preload, the unit will differentiate and bias normally, behaving like a conventional Torsen T-2. This is particularly useful to drivers who compete in road racing and autocrossing, as well as drivers of unladed pickup trucks, or SUVs who have to deal with poor weather conditions, or an occasional off-road trail, or for anyone who wants the best traction possible for their street car.




HTH