Hardline size help

[dbaseninja]

I tried seaching around the internet and this forum, I had two hardlines crack and stranded my car at my aunts house that is 45 mins away (and there are no auto parts stores worth a darn there). I want to just replace all the hardlines on the car, a job that from recent calls and searches has led me to believe I will be making all new lines for the car. It is a Manta, if anyone could tell me the tubing size and the end size and thread pitch I would be forever greatful. They look to be the same size all around. It would be great if I don't have to drive there, take off a line, drive back, buy parts, go there again and repair car.

[namba209]

Hard Lines? Do you mean brake or fuel lines? I can't think of any other hard (steel) lines, I presume that's what your talking about. Oops, just saw the subject line. OGTS has the brake lines and hoses. They have a non-preformed tubing kit and the hoses. Check out their on-line catalog Part # 4050.

[dbaseninja]

The hard lines for the brakes, the ones that are attached to the rear axle assy, the ones that go from the MC to the two front wheels and from the soft lines to the calipers in the front. One broke, others cracked and started shooting fluid everywhere.

As for OGTS, I called them and they said I was pretty much SOL and have to make them.

[namba209]

Bummer, I wonder if the GT tubing set would work to get you at least back home. You can get metric lines from most auto parts stores, but you need to have the right length and fittings. They are usually made from mild steel and can be bent easily by hand. Just noticed you're in Ventura, I'll be up there weekend after the 4th of July to a dog show, right on the beach.

[jeff denton]

When I replaced all my brake lines I got a 20' chunk of the tubing at NAPA.
But I couldn't get the metric nuts (is that what they're called?)
So I bought a few of the shortest pre-"nutted and double flared" tubes and robbed the nuts off of them.
Do be sure you understand the concept of double flaring before doing this, please.

[opelbits]

Find a NAPA. usually they have both metric and SAE lines (3/16" is about right). The metric stuff can be substantially more expensive than the SAE. But, they also have adapters that will connect SAE lines to your metric calipers/cylinders.

Oh, and get one of those little tubing benders, even if you get the pre-made standard lengths of lines (they already have fittings on them, makes it so much easier).

Also, if you really want to make sure you have the right stuff without doing a lot of driving, call NAPA ahead of time and ask if they have the Opel calipers/cylinders/master in stock. If they do, have them get them out and match the fittings right there.

[nobody]

On the other hand Napa does carry metric to standard fittings. Put the fitting into your brake and other fitting IE MC or rear splitter and run 1/4 inch between them. costs 3 bucks more but an easy fix. typing at the same time with like minds.

[Lindsay]

Kragen shows stock of Metric and SAE brake in San Diego. Online Auto Parts and Auto Accessories Store at PartsAmerica.com Enter Vehicle & your Zip Code.
Search brake lines ...

[GTJIM]

I think you will find that the Opel wheel cylinders and Mastrer Cylinder adaptors have M10 X 1.0mm pitch nuts on the brake lines.
There are little adaptors to change them to SAE sizes so that 'standard' nuts and 1/4" brake line can be used - otherwise you need the correct METRIC sized nuts and metric brake line too.
Good idea about asking if they have a wheel cylinder ... nothing like making sure stuff fits - before paying for it!

[RallyBob]

All the brake lines on the Manta will be 3/16" OD steel tubing, and the fittings are all M10 x 1.00 pitch, with an inverted (double) flare. The sole exception is the metal lines that go into the calipers of a 1975 Manta use a 'bubble' flare instead.

Bob

[GTJIM]

The original Opel brake lines are DIN (German Standard) 5mm steel tubing.
SAE (American Standard) 3/16" steel tube is 4.76mm - so is a close fit and will go through the original (or replacement) M10 X 1.0mm pitch nuts with a double flare.
Close enough - I guess!

[West Coast GT]

Please bear with me.

What is a double flare? No doubt this knowledge will come in handy in the future when I replace my brake lines.

[RallyBob]

Originally Posted by West Coast GT Please bear with me. What is a double flare? No doubt this knowledge will come in handy in the future when I replace my brake lines.

A double 'inverted' flare looks like this:
http://automotivefasteners.thomasnet...m/a0001894.jpg

HTH,
Bob

[madhatterpdc]

Really the best way to buy brake lines is to take some parts with you. And by parts, I mean either a junction block, master cylinder or wheel cylinder. And then screw the line into the fitting, if the threads are clean and it feels the least bit funny, ask for another line. That is the only way to be absolutely certain that you are getting the right lines. More than once I have chased a soft pedal and found either a bad fitting or wrong fitting. The worst part is, they don't leak fluid, just suck air.

More than once I have been handed the "correct" brake line by the omnipotent jobber, only to be hosed once I go to install it.

The rest of this post is not Opel related, rather a rant of my experiences of working with various makes and models.

For the Opel you should be covered with 10x1.00 fittings, but on non-Opel cars, never trust a jobber. To the average jobber, "double" sounds just like "bubble". The next problem is there are three different pitches of metric thread, Asian, European, and Standard (American)... with most new GM cars using European (I am aware the previous sentence is full of oxymorons, I have no idea why there is a Metric Standard thread, and I am even less understanding of why an American mfg would use a European thread). Another one of my personal favorites is having two different size fittings on the same line (junction block is 10mm, soft line is 5/16"). That will drive you *nuts* if you are in a hurry (NAPA now carries lines with two different size fittings, the rest of the jobbers have never heard of this phenomenon). Next caveat of working with brakes on modern cars... cross-bleed procedures. A cross-bleed (cross-over, X, diagonal etc) system requires that you bleed in an X pattern. The "manuals" state that in order to bleed at one wheel, you also have to bleed at the wheel diagonally across from it. But in reality, there is a 99% chance that you need to bleed all four wheels to get it right. I have waaaaay too much experience replace blown brake lines as the result of salt from the ocean, salt from the roads in winter, and poor vehicular hygiene, including not flushing the brake fluid at regular intervals.

[GTJIM]

Originally Posted by West Coast GT Please bear with me. What is a double flare? No doubt this knowledge will come in handy in the future when I replace my brake lines.

Nice line drawings from Bob!

Here is a site which goes into the making of brake lines in more detail:

New Brake Lines

HTH

[opelbits]

Originally Posted by madhatterpdc The next problem is there are three different pitches of metric thread, Asian, European, and Standard (American)... with most new GM cars using European (I am aware the previous sentence is full of oxymorons, I have no idea why there is a Metric Standard thread, and I am even less understanding of why an American mfg would use a European thread). Another one of my personal favorites is having two different size fittings on the same line (junction block is 10mm, soft line is 5/16"). That will drive you *nuts* if you are in a hurry (NAPA now carries lines with two different size fittings, the rest of the jobbers have never heard of this phenomenon). Next caveat of working with brakes on modern cars... cross-bleed procedures. A cross-bleed (cross-over, X, diagonal etc) system requires that you bleed in an X pattern. The "manuals" state that in order to bleed at one wheel, you also have to bleed at the wheel diagonally across from it. But in reality, there is a 99% chance that you need to bleed all four wheels to get it right. I have waaaaay too much experience replace blown brake lines as the result of salt from the ocean, salt from the roads in winter, and poor vehicular hygiene, including not flushing the brake fluid at regular intervals. [/I]

And then there are the various pipe threads....

I think the problems you have run into with the GM cars, unless I miss my guess, are that for awhile, GM was making components in the US and assembling the cars in Canada. Engines and such would be SAE and the body stuff was metric. It drove a lot of people nuts cause you never seemed to have the right wrenches.
Since alot of GM's current stuff is based on German engineering (Opel, of course, but SAAB, and Volvo, too, I think), so that would explain the European metric. And of course, the whole GEO/Isuzu/Toyota/Daewoo thing, which means the Asian standard, which I believe is JIC.

At least it's not Whitworth....