Shim or no shim
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Thread: Shim or no shim

  1. #1
    Super Moderator My location Ooooner's Avatar
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    Shim or no shim

    I'm putting new brake pads on my 69 GT with the "Green" pads from Opel GT Source. I noticed that they already have a metal shim attached. Of course, the old ones have the loose metal shims. Should I use the old shims with the new pads? The old shims have two raised "brads" that seemed to go with the piston on the caliper. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
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    Roy Bell
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    1973 Opel GT
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    Senior Contributor markandson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ooooner View Post
    I'm putting new brake pads on my 69 GT with the "Green" pads from Opel GT Source. I noticed that they already have a metal shim attached. Of course, the old ones have the loose metal shims. Should I use the old shims with the new pads? The old shims have two raised "brads" that seemed to go with the piston on the caliper. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
    When you say the new pads have the shims "attached" do you mean you can't take them off? I would not use two shims if that is what you mean. Other than that it would be personal preference and would not make any difference if you used the old ones as long as they are in good condition.
    Jeff

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    2000 Post Club norbertone.gt371's Avatar
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    Thats the problem when owner went to modern stuff without thinking!
    But they didn´t know that the pistons in the calipers must have the right build in direction with a tool!
    Those shims beware for that the piston can turn and destroy the rubber seals!

    And other problem will be! Then the pads make noise like a pig OINK OINK

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    Quote Originally Posted by norbertone.gt371 View Post
    Those shims beware for that the piston can turn and destroy the rubber seals!
    The pistons in the '75 50 series calipers were uniform with no flat spots in them for the notched shims you're referring to. If/when I catch a break I will attach pictures of both to help clarify what I'm referring to. Both early and late pistons are 48mm.

    Harold

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    2000 Post Club norbertone.gt371's Avatar
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    There are more piston designs over the years!
    But the question was for a 69 european GT
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    Super Moderator My location Ooooner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by markandson View Post
    When you say the new pads have the shims "attached" do you mean you can't take them off?
    Right... The new pads have a thin metal piece that is part of the pad. I guess it's epoxied on or something like that. Can't be taken off. My concern was that the old shims have the tabs on them and they fit into place with the piston and the new ones don't have the "tabs" I'm assuming thats done to keep them moving around?
    Roy Bell
    1969 Opel GT (Switzerland)
    1973 Opel GT
    1972 Opel 1900 Wagon
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    Super Moderator My location Ooooner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by norbertone.gt371 View Post
    Thats the problem when owner went to modern stuff without thinking!
    But they didn´t know that the pistons in the calipers must have the right build in direction with a tool!
    Those shims beware for that the piston can turn and destroy the rubber seals!

    And other problem will be! Then the pads make noise like a pig OINK OINK
    I got these from Opel GT Source so I assumed they wouldn't sell me something that would't work on the GT. Making me wonder now. Don't want my GT to sound like a pig?

    Norbert... Which shims are you says will turn? The shims on the new pads are fused on the pads. I guess I was wondering if I could use the old shims on top of the new pads that already have a thin metal piece there.
    Last edited by Ooooner; 03-19-2017 at 11:42 AM.
    Roy Bell
    1969 Opel GT (Switzerland)
    1973 Opel GT
    1972 Opel 1900 Wagon
    Concord, North Carolina
    Carolina Opel Club

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    2000 Post Club norbertone.gt371's Avatar
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    Not the shims will turn! The pistons will turn without the old shim style!
    When rebuild 69 calipers you need also the ATE 20° angle tool to set the pistons correct in the caliper!

    So you need the old shims for correct working Calipers!!

    I don`t know if the green stuff pads will fit when you add the old shims too

    Can be to tight with new rotors!

    Btw.You can sell anything! If it work or fit is a other question
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    Super Moderator My location Ooooner's Avatar
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    Ok Mr. Norbert... I see what you are talking about now. That makes complete sense. I'm going push the pistons all the way in and try to use the original shims. If that won't work, then I've got another set of new "regular" pads... I got these pads to cut down on the brake dust getting all over the wheels. Not sure what the old pads where made of but they really spit the dust all over the place....

    Thanks....
    Roy Bell
    1969 Opel GT (Switzerland)
    1973 Opel GT
    1972 Opel 1900 Wagon
    Concord, North Carolina
    Carolina Opel Club

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    Super Moderator My location Ooooner's Avatar
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    Okie dokie.... I just loaded the new "green" brake pads and used the original shims and there is enough clearance for the rotor, no problem. I compressed the pistons as far as they would go and everything fits great. I can see why the original shims are needed now. Thanks, Norbert !
    Roy Bell
    1969 Opel GT (Switzerland)
    1973 Opel GT
    1972 Opel 1900 Wagon
    Concord, North Carolina
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ooooner View Post
    Okie dokie.... I just loaded the new "green" brake pads and used the original shims and there is enough clearance for the rotor, no problem. I compressed the pistons as far as they would go and everything fits great. I can see why the original shims are needed now. Thanks, Norbert !
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ooooner View Post
    I can see why the original shims are needed now. Thanks, Norbert !
    I don't. Why do the early pistons rotate and not the ones in the larger calipers on the 50 series cars? Granted, if I use the shims I rework the notches in the shims and make sure the pistons match the shims, but does it really matter?

    Harold

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    I only can tell you that it is a must by ATE Caliper to install the pistons in 20° counterwise to the rotor turn direction!
    Otherwise the pads will rubbing or squeak.
    Also for the newer ones for Rekord E 246 rotors "vented or not ventend", the instruction from ATE is the same!

    Look at pictures here or read in German Language

    Bremss?ttel ?berholen

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    Quote Originally Posted by norbertone.gt371 View Post
    I only can tell you that it is a must by ATE Caliper to install the pistons in 20° counterwise to the rotor turn direction!
    Otherwise the pads will rubbing or squeak.
    Also for the newer ones for Rekord E 246 rotors "vented or not ventend", the instruction from ATE is the same!

    Look at pictures here or read in German Language
    I'm not sure what y'all got in Europe but the pistons that came in the '75 50 Series cars did not have the flat spot in them that the earlier pistons had.

    Harold

    P.S. If only I could read German.
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    2000 Post Club norbertone.gt371's Avatar
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    Be sure the piston you show up have also the spot (recess)!
    But not in right 20° direction!

    Clean up the "drive when parket rust surface" and you will find it here
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    Opeler 69whitegt's Avatar
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    I'm confused, many modern cars have screw in piston calipers as many of you probably know. My 04 RX8 is this way, I recently replaced the pads on it and neither the old pads or the new ones have notches in the metal backing plate. So even if we had screw in piston calipers with notched pads, wouldn't the notch impede the piston from functioning?
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    Tennessean Site Supporter My location hrcollinsjr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by norbertone.gt371 View Post
    Be sure the piston you show up have also the spot (recess)!
    But not in right 20° direction!

    Clean up the "drive when parket rust surface" and you will find it here
    Finally got around to working on some '75 50 Series ATE calipers. I've rebuilt several Opel ATE calipers over the years only noticing the recess on the pistons on '74 and early calipers.

    Piston on the left is from a '75 Opel and the NOS piston on the right is the earlier style with the recess.

    Harold
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ooooner View Post
    Not sure what the old pads where (were) made of but they really spit the dust all over the place....

    Thanks....
    Older stuff (60's, 70's, 80's, even into the 90's and in some applications up to this very day) asbestos was a primary material. Nowadays you can find Non-metallic, Semi-metallic, Fully-metallic (racing), and ceramics. The non-metallic pads are notoriously bad for producing dust that gets all over the wheels, are easy on the rotors and don't require as much force to get braking torque as the other three groups. I would guess thats most likely what you had, but it is entirely possible if the pads were original to the car, then likely asbestos.

    And before anyone goes on an "They don't use asbestos anymore because it is a health hazard", they most certainly do. Anyone who believes big businesses or government give a rats arse about you, me, or anyone else on this planet, you are a fool.
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    Tennessean Site Supporter My location hrcollinsjr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by norbertone.gt371 View Post
    There are more piston designs over the years!
    But the question was for a 69 european GT
    And that you had to use the shims. My question was, "Does it really matter?"

    Harold

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