rumours on reliability of 1,9l engine

[emircea]

Hello;

I am the owner of a Manta B with quite fresh engine rebuild.

Various rumors about this type of Opel engines (meaning mantas, asconas, kadett, GT from this period of time) is that they are weak on camshaft and that crankshaft+bearings does not last long.

Are this rumors for real? If I am a spirited driver, do I have great chances my engine not to last any longer?

If so, I have to prepare money for a C20NE (85 kW) or C20XE (DOHC 16V, 110 kW) replacement engine. Will this bolt trouble-fee on the gear box?

Thank you for your answers.

[opelwasp]

The only time an Opel CIH engine has durability problems like you described is when people run them low/out of oil.

[emircea]

And which should be the expected mileage for a spirited driver? Engine being taken to limits after proper warming.

Btw, on my manta, when I took the engine apart for rebuild, the camshaft had one rounded cam (circular shape, not oval anymore) and one piston rod with rolled bearings. I don't know which was the maintenance history on previous owners.... but definitely this are the weak points.

[opelnut10]

Was it #4 rod bearing? if so that is a signal that it was ran low on oil or it had low oil pressure. Wiped lobe on the camshaft can also result from low oil or oil pressue, or running dirty oil through the engine. Properly prepared with fresh lifters, camshaft, oil pump gears and new bearings and rings you can expect the CIH engine to run in excess of 100,000k with normal maintainence. The two biggest factors on engine life is lubrication and not exceeding it's operating range.No one in the world has ever built an engine that cannot be blown up but you can make it last a long time by taking care of it.

[gr_diver]

To give you an idea, I have an Ascona B, which is exactly the same as your Manta in all aspects, except body panels...

It currently has a 1.6S engine, which was built in 1977. It was taken apart for inspection when I got it (the engine) in 1998, to be reassembled without any work done, except new gaskets. It had run 85.000km, I did another 60.000km, and still has over 120psi in all cylinders. And the little oil it consumes is from the valve stem seals, not rings.

The keys to maintaining an engine are:
1) having it in tune,
2) closely watch the oil level and condition,
3) prevent it from overheating and
4) feed it good fuel.

Do these and expect a CIH engine to run a looooooong time!

Be aware though, stock engines are built for regular driving. Continuous spirited driving is just not their job.

[2 Fast 4 U]

I know of CIH engines to run 200 - 300 thousand km with out major problems just keep to the regular service intervals and you'll be good for many pleasant km's of driving!!

[emircea]

Thank you for sharing me this.

Probably the engine run out of oil or on dirty oil, in Romania such things are not rare.

Now I'm more confident this engine lasts with proper regular maintenance.

And the last thing... Can anyone give me a link, contact person and e-mail address from an Opel parts supplier? Thank you!

[gr_diver]

OGTS (Opel GT Source, Opel GT Source --- Welcome), located in the USA.

USA Opel, also located in the USA. Contact fellow member OpelJim. He also has his own thread " USA Opel / Opels Forever" accessible from the forum's front page, under "Opel Community Forums > Parts > Opel Parts Suppliers"

Finally, Anthony Drosos, aka member alpharm. Located in Greece, which is closer to Romania, and he has a thread " Opel Parts Greece" accessible from the forum's front page, under "Opel Community Forums > Parts > Opel Parts Suppliers".

[emircea]

Thank you, gr_diver.

I have read in many topics of OGTS and that there is a member from OGTS on the site, but I wasn't able to remember his name.

[namba209]

Originally Posted by emircea Thank you, gr_diver. I have read in many topics of OGTS and that there is a member of the forum from OGTS, but I wasn't able to remember his name.

That would be Dennis Gardiner, who has an outstanding Targa GT.

[GoinManta]

Originally Posted by emircea Thank you for sharing me this. Probably the engine run out of oil or on dirty oil, in Romania such things are not rare. Now I'm more confident this engine lasts with proper regular maintenance. And the last thing... Can anyone give me a link, contact person and e-mail address from an Opel parts supplier? Thank you!

Gil is great.. but not so much for you in Romania.. (althought the euro is killing the dollar so it MAY make up for shipping costs)

Also you have a 77 Ascona in the US Opel left in 1975.

SO you best bet is Wolfgang Wuster Dr. Manta He has everything for Manta and Ascona.

Charles

[emircea]

Thank you, GoinManta.

I haven't checked in Greece yet... so this does not apply for Anthony.

My personal opinion is that Dr. Manta have too big prices for my possibilities... This is for hobbists with big pockets.

For small parts I prefer US orders, the shipping expenses+price are better than in Europe.

Let me give you just two examples (and sorry for off-topic):
- Mallory pressure regulator: US market+shipping=120 euros, EU market(Germany)+shipping=160 euros
- NGK spark plugs (BPR6HIX): US market+shipping=50 euros (set of 4), Germany market+shipping=80 euros
I asked the shipping to be done by USPS, otherwise I wouldn't be in advantage.

Please belive me, my monthly income is so 'great' that if I have the possibility to spend 10 euros less, I choose it!
As an approximate refference, 1US$~0.8 euro, just to give you an idea of the amounts involved.

[2 Fast 4 U]

Originally Posted by emircea - NGK spark plugs (BPR6HIX): US market+shipping=50 euros (set of 4), Germany market+shipping=80 euros

And I only pay less than €10.00 for four of them, is the shipping that expensive??

[emircea]

Yes ~20 and something euros for shipping, if I remember well. The price changed for a few months ago.

Did you really payed less than 10 euros for 4 iridium NGK? They were quoted 8-9 US $ /piece on NGK site...

Sorry again of off-topic.

[gr_diver]

In my humble opinion, and sorry for taking this slightly off topic, you should better stick to stock, or cross-reference parts. They are cheaper, they do their job fine, and in the end there will be more money left to use in important things on the vehicle. For example, since you mentioned that is it common in Romania to find engines that have been running on low/poor oil, I can imagine that brake fluid and coolant might be even worse, let alone transmission and differential lubricants that, due to their position, their existence is many times forgotten. Try to work on these first, since these are factors that will actually promote the longevity of the vehicle.

Don't expect to install iridium spark plugs and see noticeable difference in a breaker-points ignition, carbureted, stock engine. Use the common and cheap Bosch W7BC (that you will find easily even in fuel stations), or if you get electric noise at your stereo use the WR7BC. Both these parts cost less than 1euro per unit. Even people who have upgraded their engines have found those spark plugs to be up to the task and reliable, also with electronic ignition systems.

Now this should not only apply to spark plugs. Just don't get carried away installing expensive aftermarket "upgrade" parts, that boast Hp gains, when most of the times there will be no real gain, and you will be disappointed.

On the other hand, if you have a Bosch breaker-points distributor, get a Pertronix electronic ignition unit. That would be 60-70 euros WELL spent! Your engine will start easier, will consume slightly less fuel and will actually have a small torque gain due to the accurate ignition.

Just my opinion again...

[tekenaar]

Well said, gr_diver!

[emircea]

Well said, indeed, but I don't play with basic maintenance - this is done properly and everything written in the car's log.

I chose Iridium not for power gain, but for longevity in service. The Bosch types you mentioned are in Romania 3-4 euro/piece and they are fake, not original Bosch. They last 1000 - 1500 - max 2000 km.
I currently use NGK BP6HS and they run quite ok; price: 2 euros/piece. This last minimum 15.000 km (I have another car for daily driving and the plugs, oil filter and oil type are inter-changeable with Manta).

I intend to plug back the original EFI. How does this work with Petronix ignition?

[tekenaar]

Originally Posted by emircea Well said, indeed, but I don't play with basic maintenance - this is done properly and everything written in the car's log. I choosed Iridium not for power gain, but for longevity in service. The Bosch types you mentioned are in Romania 3-4 euro/piece and they are fake, not original Bosch. They last 1000 - 1500 - max 2000 km. I currently use NGK BP6HS and they run quite ok; price: 2 euros/piece. This last minimum 15.000 km (I have another car for daily driving and the plugs, oil filter and oil type are inter-changeable with Manta). I intend to plug back the original EFI. How does this work with Petronix ignition?

I converted my '73 GT to '75 FI in 1978, likely the first GT FI conversion ever, and also added a Perlux (Pertronix now) electronic trigger later that year . . . have not had to "tune" it since, so it works just fine! Engine has Isky cam, oversize valves, Norris dual valve springs and retainers and flat-top pistons, so it's "street" modified.

As far as plugs go, this car and the rest of my Opels, in various displacements and states of tune, all use Bosch W7BC plugs. Two years ago I went so far as to purchase five sets of these plugs (~$20) when they were still $0.93 each here! . . . was worried about future availability because of all the new platinum plug types Bosch was introducing at the time, none fitting the CIH engine!

[emircea]

Thank you for the details - and good price for those plugs!

That Pertronix ignition replaces the whole distributor, or just the platina contacts? How much is this Pertronix, approximately?

I have a possibility here in Romania for another after-market ignition which has a hall sensor replacing the mobile breaker contacts. The sensor senses the top of the distributor's cam, without making any physical contact (see the second picture). This works together with a transistorised electronic ignition (the red box from the first picture from the ignition coil). The vacuum and centrifugal advance remain the ones from the original distributor.

The pictures are examples of such a device installed on an older Renault engine (my daily driving car). The sensor works together with the red box because it needs no more than 100mA to initiate the spark and the red box is an amplifier. The spark is strong enough, ~2cm in the air, but not damaging the normal ignition coil. The whole thing costs ~ 35 euros and needs the fixed part of the breaker as a bracket. All the components are produced upon automotive standards.

[gr_diver]

The pertronix has two parts, one that fits on the shaft under the rotor, and a stationary part that gets screwed on the breaker plate, replacing the breaker contact (platina).

It does not have any external amplifier, but it needs an additional +12V feed, apart from the stock distributor cable. The stock resistor wire that currently provides your coil with power is not a good source, because it lowers the voltage to ~8V to prevent the breaker contacts from pitting. In other words, you would have to pull a new wire form the fuse box, from a fuse that is controlled by the ignition switch (has power only when engine is running)...

That would rule out fuses 1,2 and 3 in your manta B, since these are constant +12V sources. For the rest I can't say, since some cars (like mine) had 8 fuses, while others (EFI) had 12 fuses...


But, if you are fortunate enough to have an electric choke carb you can do this. Use a relay! Splice a cable to the choke's feed wire, and connect it to the relay's "85" contact. Then connect contact "86" to ground. Next connect a cable to the battery's + pole, insert a fuseholder with a 10A fuse, and connect the other end to the relay's contact "30". Finally, connect a cable from relay's contact "87" to your accessory (Pertronix), and voila! You get switched power, fused, and eliminating the voltage drop that the trip from the battery to the interior and back to the engine bay would introduce... And a convenient position in a Manta B engine bay to fit a relay is right next to the wiper relay (side, slightly forward from the windshield washer reservoir).

[Opelkurt]

Originally Posted by gr_diver It does not have any external amplifier, but it needs an additional +12V feed, apart from the stock distributor cable. The stock resistor wire that currently provides your coil with power is not a good source, because it lowers the voltage to ~8V to prevent the breaker contacts from pitting. In other words, you would have to pull a new wire form the fuse box, from a fuse that is controlled by the ignition switch (has power only when engine is running)...

Does anyone know if there would be any advantage / disadvantage to also supplying the stock coil with the full 12 volts from the new wire to the Pertronix?

-Kurt

[Opelkurt]

I think I found the answer to my question: A stock coil is generally not designed to handle the full 12 volts.... Therefore a stock coil should not be powered by the separate 12 volt wire that runs the Pertronix..

-Kurt