Remove Engine on a GT? - Page 2

opelgtman1973 · 11-23-2003

I'm glad I'm not the only one concerned about safety and maybe even a bit paranoid

I grew up in Iowa and my Dad and I would always work on our cars together. No earthquakes to worry about there. He had a heavy duty hydraulic jack (unlike my scrawny little guy) and used that as primary support. He was very safety-conscious, and never trusted jack stands, but used huge tree stumps with 4x4s on top of them as secondary support, usually under the bumpers. Can't do that on my GT...no tree stumps and I sure wouldn't trust the bumpers. He never had any accidents in over 50 years, but I was always nervous getting under a car or watching him.

My father-in-law, who is NOT safety-conscious at all, had a car up on ramps, and somehow it fell off them when he was under it. I still don't know how he survived. His chest was sore for a couple weeks, never went to the doctor, and went right back to working on cars.

I'm happy being paranoid...better safe than sorry. Especially now that I'm in California and don't have the luxury of my Dad's workshop and being able to ask his advice on things.

opelgtman1973 · 11-23-2003

Ron, I see you live in Imperial Beach. I lived in San Diego near UCSD when I first moved to CA. The biggest quake I've felt was the one in Joshua Tree in '99 I think. Was a 7.2 I think, with serious shaking for over 30 seconds. Didn't have my car to work on then, though. It seemed to come on slowly, so I think I could've gotten out before the big shaking happened.

Now that I'm in L.A. I've felt about 4-5 small earthquakes. They were more like jolts, as if someone picked up the apartment building and tossed it sideways a couple feet. Didn't do any damage, and I wasn't working on my car at the time, but I can imagine any of those could've toppled a car off stands if not supported properly.

I think I'll ask my landlord if I can build a mechanic's pit

pvcar · 11-23-2003

i once had a 2001 vw bug dieseal turbo come in saying it didnt have any power any more and nobey could figure out what the problem wus so one of the other mechanics told me to get in the car while he raised about 10 or 12 feet in the air on a lift and act like i was actually driving it and see how fast i could get it to i didnt notice but i wus in 4th gear and it wus registaring somewhere near 120 mph i was scared sh*t less that this bug wus gonna fall off the lift luckly i didnt panic to much let off the gas and slowed down the wheels very slowly and everything wus fine still didnt figure out what wus wrong with the dam thing.

bosco · 12-31-2003

Can someone tell me where the best spots are to hook up a hoist chain to lower an engine out of GT......and to reinstall one, in case that would be different???

Thanks.

kwilford · 12-31-2003

Good question. I have never been completely pleased with the solutions I have come up with, as there doesn't seem to be an obvious spot on the Opel CIH engine to connect a chain where it properly balances the engine front to back and right to left simultaneously.

Here are a couple of pictures that illustrate my current solution, by using a spare threaded hole in the block on the passenger side and the top starter bolt on the drivers side. The standard starter bolt isn't long enough, so I found a longer bolt (M12 I believe) to allow the chain loop to be attached while the starter is in place. The passenger side is also a compromise; this location requires the removal of both manifolds and the thermostat housing. I tried to get a chain loop to fit to the exhaust manifold bolt, but it isn't long enough, and I didn't have a spare bolt that was long enough with the correct threads.

Be careful about using a rocker stud to attach a lift chain. I have seen a few studs stripped and/or bent by doing just that.

Any other suggestions?

kwilford · 12-31-2003

And the other side:

Old Hippie · 12-31-2003

Go to a junk yard and get some of those GM block "eye" pads. I've found the having 4 or 5 of those around the garage is mighty handy. Unless you have a friend in a shop who can lift the body while you have a tranny jack (or other) under the motor.
my 2c's

bosco · 12-31-2003

Thanks for the pictures.......so can I put the engine in with the alternator and distributor attached (as your picture indicates)?

svopel · 12-31-2003

Old Hippie ....

What are "GM block "eye" pads"?

Thanks

Ken

namba209 · 12-31-2003

I kinda got to this thread late, but here's my input. Keith is correct is using the starter bolt and the spare threaded holes on the passenger front side of the block, and yeas you can leave all engine accessories on the engine to remove it out the bottom of the car. BUT, use a floor jack under the tranny to help balance the assembly front to rear while dropping the engine.

Ken, the eye pads are common on almost all engines, including foreign cars. They are the stamped steel plates with large holes in them the factory uses to initially install the engines on the production lines. It takes too long to remove them, so they leave them in place. On my V-6 there is one front driver's side and rear pax side.

Ron

Old Hippie · 12-31-2003

Yep! Like Ron said. Also there are different bolt configurations which make them handy to have cause you can use them for other things. I hooked some up to a Riding mower to lift it up on stands.

oldopelguy · 12-31-2003

On my wagon, which has much easier access than a GT, I took 2 of the rear cam covers and welded "eyes" to them that go straight up. The rear one can be installed "inside" the lip on the front one with longer bolts, so I now have hook-up points front and rear on my motor. The front eye has my fuel pressure regulator mounted to it normally, and the rear mounts the heater control valve, so unless you really look you can't even tell they don't belong there.

kwilford · 12-31-2003

...so can I put the engine in with the alternator and distributor attached (as your picture indicates)?

Sorry to disagree with Ron, but it is mandatory (at least by the FSM) to remove the alternator. It is also HIGHLY recommended to remove the distributor when lowering or installing the engine in a GT. Not only does it go in/come out easier, but you won't risk damaging either in the process. I have the alternator and distributor installed to keep junk from falling into the engine and because I installed a new alternator bushing set and shimmed the upper mounting hole and wanted to check it out before I installed the engine.

You also have to remove at least the carburetor. I prefer to also remove the intake and exhaust manifolds.

JM2CW, IMNSHO

namba209 · 12-31-2003

Keith, you're probaly right about the alternator, I took off the AC compressor, brackets and belts before I dropped the 1.9 out of my GT, so probably the alternator came off too. I just looked at my project pics again and I had the alternator and both manifolds off when I dropped the engine. The starter and distributor were still on the engine. I wasn't going to use the engine again in that car, so I took off minimal stuff to expediate the removal.

Ron

bosco · 01-04-2004

After recent discussions on here, yesterday I went with the bottom out method of removing my engine (with trans. attached) using an engine hoist and floor jack. It went MUCH easier than I expected. Thanks for the advice.

Jim Branham · 01-04-2004

I never tried pulling a GT engine from the top before. Before this past summer, I had a GT engine out 3-4 times from the bottom. So far this summer/ fall, I scrapped 4 Gts and disassembled them down to practically nothing left. I found out how easy the front suspension comes off and how easy the engine drops down with the f/s gone. No more prying the engine back to clear the crank pulley and lower the engine at the same time. It just lowers nice and easy to a wheeled dolly and since the front tires, along with the whole front suspension, are gone, I don't have to raise the car up so high. It also makes detailing or restoring the front suspension easier.

jordan · 01-04-2004

was it necessary to take the valve cover off to pull the engine?

bosco · 01-04-2004

I don't know. I had already taken it off to put on the engine thats going into the car.
Sorry

kwilford · 01-04-2004

was it necessary to take the valve cover off to pull the engine?

It looks like the car was high enough that the valve cover could have stayed on. But the lifting chain often interferes with the valve cover, if you use the top starter bolt and the hole in the block on the manifold side. And you also have to remove the thermostat housing, as the diagonal chain will ride against it, and it's only aluminum and might break.

I like the earlier suggestion to make lifting lugs that are welded permanently to the cam cover plates, as it would provide a nice straight lift to the engine, and then you could use a lifting bar to balance it front to back. But I think I would want to use stronger grade (10.9) bolts, as the cam covers are only held in place with M6 bolts, even if there are three of them on each cover.

If you lift the front end 24 inches (at the jack points) and the rear 22 inches, you should have enough clearance to even leave the mounting cross member in place, and lower and remove the engine and cross member together. Then the engine can be slid out on the cross member, rather than the oil pan. Or do what I did, and make a little flat dolly (available from Sears for making saw table and drill presses mobile) that you lower the engine on to, and then it is much easier it work on. Until you get a proper engine stand, which Santa brought to our house just before Christmas.

JM2CW

bosco · 01-04-2004

I thought I'd have to put a longer bolt in the top starter bolt hole (as a place to hook the chain) but couldnt get the one I had in because the head came back too close to the housing and I couldnt get a wrench on it. Instead I took the starter off and then felt safe using the bolt that was in there already. I have to get the right length bolt because I don't want to mess with the starter with the engine in the car ever again.

jeff denton · 01-05-2004

To think, it was exactly a year ago I asked the question, just how are you supposed to get the engine out?
Started a war, remember?
I've learned a lot in the last year (about GTs, anyway).
In my car, it comes out the top real easy now that the cowl is gone, there is no radiator bulkhead, or brake system in the way.
Only from a distance is it recognizable as a GT.
Regardless, from its last mockup removal the engine/trans assembly together did come out slick as a whistle From The Bottom and two guys easily lifted the car up and over the assembly. I bet two really big guys could do the same with a completely stock GT.

bear · 03-11-2004

bosco
what did you hook the chain to when you lifted you car?

View Poll Results: Which way do you remove your GT engine?
Out the top	32	19.63%
Out the bottom	131	80.37%
Voters: 163. You may not vote on this poll

11-23-2003	#26 (permalink)
opelgtman1973 Opel Metalhead Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Southern California Posts: 68 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	Safety I'm glad I'm not the only one concerned about safety and maybe even a bit paranoid I grew up in Iowa and my Dad and I would always work on our cars together. No earthquakes to worry about there. He had a heavy duty hydraulic jack (unlike my scrawny little guy) and used that as primary support. He was very safety-conscious, and never trusted jack stands, but used huge tree stumps with 4x4s on top of them as secondary support, usually under the bumpers. Can't do that on my GT...no tree stumps and I sure wouldn't trust the bumpers. He never had any accidents in over 50 years, but I was always nervous getting under a car or watching him. My father-in-law, who is NOT safety-conscious at all, had a car up on ramps, and somehow it fell off them when he was under it. I still don't know how he survived. His chest was sore for a couple weeks, never went to the doctor, and went right back to working on cars. I'm happy being paranoid...better safe than sorry. Especially now that I'm in California and don't have the luxury of my Dad's workshop and being able to ask his advice on things.

11-23-2003	#27 (permalink)
opelgtman1973 Opel Metalhead Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Southern California Posts: 68 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	Earthquake safety Ron, I see you live in Imperial Beach. I lived in San Diego near UCSD when I first moved to CA. The biggest quake I've felt was the one in Joshua Tree in '99 I think. Was a 7.2 I think, with serious shaking for over 30 seconds. Didn't have my car to work on then, though. It seemed to come on slowly, so I think I could've gotten out before the big shaking happened. Now that I'm in L.A. I've felt about 4-5 small earthquakes. They were more like jolts, as if someone picked up the apartment building and tossed it sideways a couple feet. Didn't do any damage, and I wasn't working on my car at the time, but I can imagine any of those could've toppled a car off stands if not supported properly. I think I'll ask my landlord if I can build a mechanic's pit

12-31-2003	#29 (permalink)
bosco Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 494 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	hoist chain Can someone tell me where the best spots are to hook up a hoist chain to lower an engine out of GT......and to reinstall one, in case that would be different??? Thanks.

12-31-2003	#37 (permalink)
oldopelguy Have Opel, Will Travel Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Pickens, SC Posts: 1,592 Classified Rating: 0% (0) Logbook Entries: 3 Provided Answers: 1	if you have "extra" parts... On my wagon, which has much easier access than a GT, I took 2 of the rear cam covers and welded "eyes" to them that go straight up. The rear one can be installed "inside" the lip on the front one with longer bolts, so I now have hook-up points front and rear on my motor. The front eye has my fuel pressure regulator mounted to it normally, and the rear mounts the heater control valve, so unless you really look you can't even tell they don't belong there.

11-23-2003	#28 (permalink)
pvcar 4ZUA787 Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Rancho Palos Verdes CA,USA Posts: 668 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	i once had a 2001 vw bug dieseal turbo come in saying it didnt have any power any more and nobey could figure out what the problem wus so one of the other mechanics told me to get in the car while he raised about 10 or 12 feet in the air on a lift and act like i was actually driving it and see how fast i could get it to i didnt notice but i wus in 4th gear and it wus registaring somewhere near 120 mph i was scared sh*t less that this bug wus gonna fall off the lift luckly i didnt panic to much let off the gas and slowed down the wheels very slowly and everything wus fine still didnt figure out what wus wrong with the dam thing.

12-31-2003	#32 (permalink)
Old Hippie Senior Contributor Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Paxico, Ks. Posts: 787 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	Go to a junk yard and get some of those GM block "eye" pads. I've found the having 4 or 5 of those around the garage is mighty handy. Unless you have a friend in a shop who can lift the body while you have a tranny jack (or other) under the motor. my 2c's

12-31-2003	#33 (permalink)
bosco Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 494 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	Thanks for the pictures.......so can I put the engine in with the alternator and distributor attached (as your picture indicates)?

12-31-2003	#34 (permalink)
svopel Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Westlake, OH (Cleveland) Posts: 126 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	Old Hippie .... What are "GM block "eye" pads"? Thanks Ken

12-31-2003	#35 (permalink)
namba209 5,000 Post Club Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Imperial Beach, CA South of San Diego Posts: 5,921 Classified Rating: 0% (0) Provided Answers: 1	I kinda got to this thread late, but here's my input. Keith is correct is using the starter bolt and the spare threaded holes on the passenger front side of the block, and yeas you can leave all engine accessories on the engine to remove it out the bottom of the car. BUT, use a floor jack under the tranny to help balance the assembly front to rear while dropping the engine. Ken, the eye pads are common on almost all engines, including foreign cars. They are the stamped steel plates with large holes in them the factory uses to initially install the engines on the production lines. It takes too long to remove them, so they leave them in place. On my V-6 there is one front driver's side and rear pax side. Ron

12-31-2003	#36 (permalink)
Old Hippie Senior Contributor Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Paxico, Ks. Posts: 787 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	Yep! Like Ron said. Also there are different bolt configurations which make them handy to have cause you can use them for other things. I hooked some up to a Riding mower to lift it up on stands.

12-31-2003	#38 (permalink)
kwilford Über OpelGT.com Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada Posts: 3,707 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	...so can I put the engine in with the alternator and distributor attached (as your picture indicates)? Sorry to disagree with Ron, but it is mandatory (at least by the FSM) to remove the alternator. It is also HIGHLY recommended to remove the distributor when lowering or installing the engine in a GT. Not only does it go in/come out easier, but you won't risk damaging either in the process. I have the alternator and distributor installed to keep junk from falling into the engine and because I installed a new alternator bushing set and shimmed the upper mounting hole and wanted to check it out before I installed the engine. You also have to remove at least the carburetor. I prefer to also remove the intake and exhaust manifolds. JM2CW, IMNSHO

12-31-2003	#39 (permalink)
namba209 5,000 Post Club Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Imperial Beach, CA South of San Diego Posts: 5,921 Classified Rating: 0% (0) Provided Answers: 1	Keith, you're probaly right about the alternator, I took off the AC compressor, brackets and belts before I dropped the 1.9 out of my GT, so probably the alternator came off too. I just looked at my project pics again and I had the alternator and both manifolds off when I dropped the engine. The starter and distributor were still on the engine. I wasn't going to use the engine again in that car, so I took off minimal stuff to expediate the removal. Ron

01-04-2004	#41 (permalink)
Jim Branham Opel fan Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: N.J. Posts: 380 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	I never tried pulling a GT engine from the top before. Before this past summer, I had a GT engine out 3-4 times from the bottom. So far this summer/ fall, I scrapped 4 Gts and disassembled them down to practically nothing left. I found out how easy the front suspension comes off and how easy the engine drops down with the f/s gone. No more prying the engine back to clear the crank pulley and lower the engine at the same time. It just lowers nice and easy to a wheeled dolly and since the front tires, along with the whole front suspension, are gone, I don't have to raise the car up so high. It also makes detailing or restoring the front suspension easier.

01-04-2004	#42 (permalink)
jordan Moderator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: corning ny 14830 Posts: 2,103 Classified Rating: 100% (1)	was it necessary to take the valve cover off to pull the engine?

01-04-2004	#43 (permalink)
bosco Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 494 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	I don't know. I had already taken it off to put on the engine thats going into the car. Sorry

01-04-2004	#44 (permalink)
kwilford Über OpelGT.com Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada Posts: 3,707 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	was it necessary to take the valve cover off to pull the engine? It looks like the car was high enough that the valve cover could have stayed on. But the lifting chain often interferes with the valve cover, if you use the top starter bolt and the hole in the block on the manifold side. And you also have to remove the thermostat housing, as the diagonal chain will ride against it, and it's only aluminum and might break. I like the earlier suggestion to make lifting lugs that are welded permanently to the cam cover plates, as it would provide a nice straight lift to the engine, and then you could use a lifting bar to balance it front to back. But I think I would want to use stronger grade (10.9) bolts, as the cam covers are only held in place with M6 bolts, even if there are three of them on each cover. If you lift the front end 24 inches (at the jack points) and the rear 22 inches, you should have enough clearance to even leave the mounting cross member in place, and lower and remove the engine and cross member together. Then the engine can be slid out on the cross member, rather than the oil pan. Or do what I did, and make a little flat dolly (available from Sears for making saw table and drill presses mobile) that you lower the engine on to, and then it is much easier it work on. Until you get a proper engine stand, which Santa brought to our house just before Christmas. JM2CW

01-04-2004	#45 (permalink)
bosco Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 494 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	I thought I'd have to put a longer bolt in the top starter bolt hole (as a place to hook the chain) but couldnt get the one I had in because the head came back too close to the housing and I couldnt get a wrench on it. Instead I took the starter off and then felt safe using the bolt that was in there already. I have to get the right length bolt because I don't want to mess with the starter with the engine in the car ever again.

01-05-2004	#46 (permalink)
jeff denton former opel racer Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: near some glaciers Posts: 2,742 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	To think, it was exactly a year ago I asked the question, just how are you supposed to get the engine out? Started a war, remember? I've learned a lot in the last year (about GTs, anyway). In my car, it comes out the top real easy now that the cowl is gone, there is no radiator bulkhead, or brake system in the way. Only from a distance is it recognizable as a GT. Regardless, from its last mockup removal the engine/trans assembly together did come out slick as a whistle From The Bottom and two guys easily lifted the car up and over the assembly. I bet two really big guys could do the same with a completely stock GT.

03-11-2004	#47 (permalink)
bear Opeler Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 82 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	bosco what did you hook the chain to when you lifted you car?