Remove Engine on a GT? - Page 5

namba209 · 01-23-2006

I guess I'm about as safety concious as anyone, maybe more so, being brainwashed by the USAF from day one of basic training. On Willit? I destroyed 3 engines prior to the current engine swap. Probably had bad motors from the recyclers to begin with. Anyway, I pulled two of the three out the top, mainly because I didn't have a manual and there was no internet or you folks available. The last time, I pulled it out from the bottom, literally. Either way, it is fairly easy, except for pulling the tranny from under the car without a jack. If you check my photo gallery you'll see what it takes to get the engine/tranny out from under the bottom without a car lift. It was pretty straight forward, jack up the car and put it on jack stands, and pull the driveshaft out. Put the car back on the ground, Hook up a hoist to the engine take the weight off the crossmembers, and drop the engine/tranny to the ground. I used two 2000 lb. straps hooked around the front suspension and lifted the car up high enuff in the front to pull the engine out from under with a come-along. At no time during this operation was I under the car except for pulling the driveshaft, and then it was on all four jackstands with a floor jack under the rear-end and the hoist hooked up to the front suspension. Like I said, I've been brainwashed about safety. I was real leary about hoisting up the front of the car so high, but with the hoist rated at 4000 lbs and a pair of 2000 lb tiedown straps I felt safe enuff, but didn't let the car stay that high too long. I've seen and heard way too many tales of injury and death working on cars that are just too ridiculous during my USAF career. Yeah, I laughed at them when I read about them, but when it gets close to home, it becomes an eye opener, like this one. USN Senior Chief working on a Plymouth wagon, using a bumper jack to pull the drive shaft on an incline, had the tranny in park, emergency brake not set. You see the stage is set for disaster, dropped the dirveshaft, car rolled back, off the jack and crushed his arm and chest. Lotsa hospital time for him. He ended up working with me on light duty for over a year when he got released from the hospital. Yeah, it's scary. Others on this site have had similar instances and are rightfully anal about how they do things. I won't say yeah or nay to how you do it, just do it safe.

spdkilz02 · 01-24-2006

well i have the new gt at my house...no garage, jacks, hoist, chain, or tree...thinking i may just undo everything and get a 10' 4x4 and put eyehooks through it and attach to the motor with a chain...remove the hood, and have alot of my buddies help me lift it up and out...

namba209 · 01-24-2006

Adam, that may work if you can get them to stand on each others shoulders.

The engine has to come up quite a bit to clear the fenders or the sheetmetal in front of the hood.

Best bet is to rent the equipment you think you'll need, gotta do it safely with the correct tools.

asdasc · 01-24-2006

Adam, congrats on the new GT! Drop it out the bottom, it is far easier. Go get some GOOD jack stands though, you will need them!

namba209 · 01-27-2006

Check this out if you wanna see scary. This is how the V-6/T-5 goes in Willit? I figured I'd put it here under this topic because it fits. You'll note I've got an incline to work on, that's make moving the hoist a bit testier, so I've got ratchet straps anchored to the garage frame and the hoist. Nothing moves until I want it to. Also there is a 4 ton hoist and a heavy capacity floor jack. Scary for sure, getting the package that high, but it's just high enuff to clear the car. All four wheels are on the ground, so there's no worries about getting things moved off jack stands. All I do is position the engine over the hole, let it down so the tailshaft is on the floor jack, then let it down some more and the floor jack rolls back as the engine drops in. It's really neat, and almost lines up with the mounting holes for the crossmembers. It should be all bolted in today, and then ready for all the peripherals to be installed.

baz · 01-27-2006

Originally Posted by namba209

Check this out if you wanna see scary. This is how the V-6/T-5 goes in Willit? I figured I'd put it here under this topic because it fits. You'll note I've got an incline to work on, that's make moving the hoist a bit testier, so I've got ratchet straps anchored to the garage frame and the hoist. Nothing moves until I want it to. Also there is a 4 ton hoist and a heavy capacity floor jack. Scary for sure, getting the package that high, but it's just high enuff to clear the car. All four wheels are on the ground, so there's no worries about getting things moved off jack stands. All I do is position the engine over the hole, let it down so the tailshaft is on the floor jack, then let it down some more and the floor jack rolls back as the engine drops in. It's really neat, and almost lines up with the mounting holes for the crossmembers. It should be all bolted in today, and then ready for all the peripherals to be installed.

wildone1 · 01-27-2006

I agree the only way is out the bottom makes life easier

benncojr · 01-27-2006

Ron,
A caption for the photo should be "Open up and say AHHHHHH!!

namba209 · 01-27-2006

That would have been neat Rick, sorry I didn't think of it. Now guess what would have been added to that if something broke on the hoist, log chain, or the one 10.9 grade bolt in the head snapped.

I'm sure glad I do these things when Margaret isn't around. She saw the pic and asked if I did it all by myself after the package was installed. I told her it was easy, all I had to have was a good mechanical advantage over the weight of the engine/tranny, plus overkill on the capacities.

MikeyOne · 04-04-2006

I just finished an engine swap by the "out the botom" method. I dropped both the tranny and engine together, and reinstalled the same way. The engine was "half bare" - removed carb, starter, alternator, oil filter, water pump and radiator.

I first put the car up on rollup ramps (10 inches or so) and disconnected everything except the engine cross member and tranny crossmember. I then attached a chain to the alternator bracket to block bolt as a stabilizer. The main chain was bolted to the top starter bolt, and its other end attached using a j-hook through the engine to bell housing brace on the passenger side. This setup allowed me to hang the drive train perfectly level.

Then I cut ten 22 inch peices of 3/4 inch PVC pipe, laid 5 down under the car, and laid a 20 inch by 4 foot piece of heavy plywood on it. This setup easily rolls.

The motor mount top bolts were then loosened and the engine hoisted up to relieve the weight. The motor cross menber and tranny cross member were unbolted and the whole shebang was set down on the plywood.

The hoist was then used to lift the car up 20 inches more by a chain around the steering crossmember, and two large landscaping blockes added to the support under each front tire.

The hoist was removed and the engine rolled out from under the car, using the additional PVC pipe as rollers.

The car was immediately lifted again and set back down on the rollup ramps. Note that I never had to get under the car while it was higher than a set of rollup ramps.

Installation was just a reversal of the same process.

Two goodies came out of this:
Found a way to get the engine out from under without a comealong and didnt need 6 more inches (or more) for an engine dolly. The plywood on PVC pipe rolled almost too easily, as I had to put a chock in front of it to keep the engine from rolling away on its own. The rolling board only added about 1.5 inches to the height.

azopelnut · 04-04-2006

Originally Posted by MikeyOne

I then attached a chain to the alternator bracket to block bolt as a stabilizer. The main chain was bolted to the top starter bolt, and its other end attached using a j-hook through the engine to bell housing brace on the passenger side. This setup allowed me to hang the drive train perfectly level.

The hoist was then used to lift the car up 20 inches more by a chain around the steering crossmember, and two large landscaping blockes added to the support under each front tire.

Very cool .........any pics?

asdasc · 04-04-2006

Brilliant! I have always had the issue with raising the car so uch higher to clear the engine on a stand. I originally built a cradle out of 2x4 that supported it under the 2 engine mounts and under the end of the tranny. Then I just shove it out, sliding the 2x4 cradle along the cement. Your system takes it one step further by putting it on rollers. I will try to draw up an even better combo taking the best of both into consideration.

Your pictures would be great to see.

Thanks for sharing.

jlthunder · 04-04-2006

We did an engine removal a little over a week ago. Instead of PVC, we use 2 mechanic's creepers. Rolled right out + we had castors on the creeper so we could roll it in any direction

Jeff

asdasc · 04-04-2006

Do you just lay it on the plywood or creeper? Or do you stand it up and hold it by hand? I have always kept the engine vertical thruout, but I guess it could be layed down.

jlthunder · 04-04-2006

We put cardboard on the creepers so they wouldn't get dirty since we were going to use them. The engine/auto trans was horizontal, but we removed the head prior to dropping it. Gave us some more wiggle room. HTH

Jeff

MikeyOne · 04-04-2006

Although I considered laying the engine on its side for clearence (only 14 inches on the side), I ended up keeping it upright (about 24 inches). This was mostly because I didnt think I would have room to lay it over until I lifted the car all the way up, and really didnt want to get under the car while it was in this position.

Besides, once the car was high enough to lay the engine over, it was high enough to roll the engine out.

My wife took some photos, and Ill post them when I can.

jlthunder · 04-04-2006

Sorry for the confusion. Our was still vertical(normal position). I thought you meant the crank was vertical in relation to the ground, similiar to when you take it out the top. Sorry for the confusion.

gtmaxx · 12-12-2006

what is the best way to put in the motor in my 1971 opel gt 1.9 liter 4-speed. is it easier to put it in from the top or the bottom????????????thanks

namba209 · 12-12-2006

That could re-open a can of worms. So let me say this, I've done it both ways. The head and tranny have to be removed from the engine to pull it out the top, or put it back in. The whole package (engine/tranny) can be dropped out the bottom together or installed. There are some who have said they can remove and install a package in one day. That is remove the old package and install a new package. It is a matter of preference, The manual suggests taking the whole package out from the bottom. I took mine down and out with just a floor jack and cherry picker. For more opinions, use the search button and you'll get a lot of how to's. HTH.

kwilford · 12-13-2006

Originally Posted by gtmaxx

what is the best way to put in the motor in my 1971 Opel gt 1.9 liter 4-speed. is it easier to put it in from the top or the bottom????????????thanks

Moved to a better Forum. Where you will find the Thread/Poll:

Happy reading. But PLEASE don't start this discussion again

View Poll Results: Which way do you remove your GT engine?
Out the top	32	19.63%
Out the bottom	131	80.37%
Voters: 163. You may not vote on this poll

04-04-2006	#110 (permalink)
MikeyOne Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Los Angeles more or less Posts: 97 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	Removed from bottom I just finished an engine swap by the "out the botom" method. I dropped both the tranny and engine together, and reinstalled the same way. The engine was "half bare" - removed carb, starter, alternator, oil filter, water pump and radiator. I first put the car up on rollup ramps (10 inches or so) and disconnected everything except the engine cross member and tranny crossmember. I then attached a chain to the alternator bracket to block bolt as a stabilizer. The main chain was bolted to the top starter bolt, and its other end attached using a j-hook through the engine to bell housing brace on the passenger side. This setup allowed me to hang the drive train perfectly level. Then I cut ten 22 inch peices of 3/4 inch PVC pipe, laid 5 down under the car, and laid a 20 inch by 4 foot piece of heavy plywood on it. This setup easily rolls. The motor mount top bolts were then loosened and the engine hoisted up to relieve the weight. The motor cross menber and tranny cross member were unbolted and the whole shebang was set down on the plywood. The hoist was then used to lift the car up 20 inches more by a chain around the steering crossmember, and two large landscaping blockes added to the support under each front tire. The hoist was removed and the engine rolled out from under the car, using the additional PVC pipe as rollers. The car was immediately lifted again and set back down on the rollup ramps. Note that I never had to get under the car while it was higher than a set of rollup ramps. Installation was just a reversal of the same process. Two goodies came out of this: Found a way to get the engine out from under without a comealong and didnt need 6 more inches (or more) for an engine dolly. The plywood on PVC pipe rolled almost too easily, as I had to put a chock in front of it to keep the engine from rolling away on its own. The rolling board only added about 1.5 inches to the height.

04-04-2006	#116 (permalink)
MikeyOne Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Los Angeles more or less Posts: 97 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	Kept the engine upright Although I considered laying the engine on its side for clearence (only 14 inches on the side), I ended up keeping it upright (about 24 inches). This was mostly because I didnt think I would have room to lay it over until I lifted the car all the way up, and really didnt want to get under the car while it was in this position. Besides, once the car was high enough to lay the engine over, it was high enough to roll the engine out. My wife took some photos, and Ill post them when I can.

12-12-2006	#118 (permalink)
gtmaxx 1971 OPEL GT 1.9L 4-speed Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Grants Pass,Oregon Posts: 198 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	What Is The Best Way????????????? what is the best way to put in the motor in my 1971 opel gt 1.9 liter 4-speed. is it easier to put it in from the top or the bottom????????????thanks

01-23-2006	#101 (permalink)
namba209 5,000 Post Club Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Imperial Beach, CA South of San Diego Posts: 5,923 Classified Rating: 0% (0) Provided Answers: 1	I guess I'm about as safety concious as anyone, maybe more so, being brainwashed by the USAF from day one of basic training. On Willit? I destroyed 3 engines prior to the current engine swap. Probably had bad motors from the recyclers to begin with. Anyway, I pulled two of the three out the top, mainly because I didn't have a manual and there was no internet or you folks available. The last time, I pulled it out from the bottom, literally. Either way, it is fairly easy, except for pulling the tranny from under the car without a jack. If you check my photo gallery you'll see what it takes to get the engine/tranny out from under the bottom without a car lift. It was pretty straight forward, jack up the car and put it on jack stands, and pull the driveshaft out. Put the car back on the ground, Hook up a hoist to the engine take the weight off the crossmembers, and drop the engine/tranny to the ground. I used two 2000 lb. straps hooked around the front suspension and lifted the car up high enuff in the front to pull the engine out from under with a come-along. At no time during this operation was I under the car except for pulling the driveshaft, and then it was on all four jackstands with a floor jack under the rear-end and the hoist hooked up to the front suspension. Like I said, I've been brainwashed about safety. I was real leary about hoisting up the front of the car so high, but with the hoist rated at 4000 lbs and a pair of 2000 lb tiedown straps I felt safe enuff, but didn't let the car stay that high too long. I've seen and heard way too many tales of injury and death working on cars that are just too ridiculous during my USAF career. Yeah, I laughed at them when I read about them, but when it gets close to home, it becomes an eye opener, like this one. USN Senior Chief working on a Plymouth wagon, using a bumper jack to pull the drive shaft on an incline, had the tranny in park, emergency brake not set. You see the stage is set for disaster, dropped the dirveshaft, car rolled back, off the jack and crushed his arm and chest. Lotsa hospital time for him. He ended up working with me on light duty for over a year when he got released from the hospital. Yeah, it's scary. Others on this site have had similar instances and are rightfully anal about how they do things. I won't say yeah or nay to how you do it, just do it safe.

01-24-2006	#102 (permalink)
spdkilz02 1000 Post Club Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Akron, OH Posts: 1,724 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	well i have the new gt at my house...no garage, jacks, hoist, chain, or tree...thinking i may just undo everything and get a 10' 4x4 and put eyehooks through it and attach to the motor with a chain...remove the hood, and have alot of my buddies help me lift it up and out...

01-24-2006	#103 (permalink)
namba209 5,000 Post Club Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Imperial Beach, CA South of San Diego Posts: 5,923 Classified Rating: 0% (0) Provided Answers: 1	Adam, that may work if you can get them to stand on each others shoulders. The engine has to come up quite a bit to clear the fenders or the sheetmetal in front of the hood. Best bet is to rent the equipment you think you'll need, gotta do it safely with the correct tools.

01-24-2006	#104 (permalink)
asdasc Senior Contributor Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Mt. Clemens, Michigan Posts: 888 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	Adam, congrats on the new GT! Drop it out the bottom, it is far easier. Go get some GOOD jack stands though, you will need them!

01-27-2006	#107 (permalink)
wildone1 Opeler Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Michigan Posts: 20 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	I agree the only way is out the bottom makes life easier

01-27-2006	#108 (permalink)
benncojr 1000 Post Club Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 1,265 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	Ron, A caption for the photo should be "Open up and say AHHHHHH!!

01-27-2006	#109 (permalink)
namba209 5,000 Post Club Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Imperial Beach, CA South of San Diego Posts: 5,923 Classified Rating: 0% (0) Provided Answers: 1	That would have been neat Rick, sorry I didn't think of it. Now guess what would have been added to that if something broke on the hoist, log chain, or the one 10.9 grade bolt in the head snapped. I'm sure glad I do these things when Margaret isn't around. She saw the pic and asked if I did it all by myself after the package was installed. I told her it was easy, all I had to have was a good mechanical advantage over the weight of the engine/tranny, plus overkill on the capacities.

04-04-2006	#112 (permalink)
asdasc Senior Contributor Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Mt. Clemens, Michigan Posts: 888 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	Brilliant! I have always had the issue with raising the car so uch higher to clear the engine on a stand. I originally built a cradle out of 2x4 that supported it under the 2 engine mounts and under the end of the tranny. Then I just shove it out, sliding the 2x4 cradle along the cement. Your system takes it one step further by putting it on rollers. I will try to draw up an even better combo taking the best of both into consideration. Your pictures would be great to see. Thanks for sharing.

04-04-2006	#113 (permalink)
jlthunder 1000 Post Club Join Date: May 2003 Location: Salfordville, PA Posts: 1,820 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	We did an engine removal a little over a week ago. Instead of PVC, we use 2 mechanic's creepers. Rolled right out + we had castors on the creeper so we could roll it in any direction Jeff

04-04-2006	#114 (permalink)
asdasc Senior Contributor Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Mt. Clemens, Michigan Posts: 888 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	Do you just lay it on the plywood or creeper? Or do you stand it up and hold it by hand? I have always kept the engine vertical thruout, but I guess it could be layed down.

04-04-2006	#115 (permalink)
jlthunder 1000 Post Club Join Date: May 2003 Location: Salfordville, PA Posts: 1,820 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	We put cardboard on the creepers so they wouldn't get dirty since we were going to use them. The engine/auto trans was horizontal, but we removed the head prior to dropping it. Gave us some more wiggle room. HTH Jeff

04-04-2006	#117 (permalink)
jlthunder 1000 Post Club Join Date: May 2003 Location: Salfordville, PA Posts: 1,820 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	Sorry for the confusion. Our was still vertical(normal position). I thought you meant the crank was vertical in relation to the ground, similiar to when you take it out the top. Sorry for the confusion.

12-12-2006	#119 (permalink)
namba209 5,000 Post Club Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Imperial Beach, CA South of San Diego Posts: 5,923 Classified Rating: 0% (0) Provided Answers: 1	That could re-open a can of worms. So let me say this, I've done it both ways. The head and tranny have to be removed from the engine to pull it out the top, or put it back in. The whole package (engine/tranny) can be dropped out the bottom together or installed. There are some who have said they can remove and install a package in one day. That is remove the old package and install a new package. It is a matter of preference, The manual suggests taking the whole package out from the bottom. I took mine down and out with just a floor jack and cherry picker. For more opinions, use the search button and you'll get a lot of how to's. HTH.