Manta A/C assistance, please help!

[Loeblich]

Hello, I am Javier Alvarez and I live in Maracaibo, Venezuela, this is my first post.
The weather here its incredibly hot, from 30 to 40 Cº and it rains about 5 times in a year. I have an 73' Manta that originally came with a heater system, but when I got the car it wasn't there. You can imagine how much I need air conditioning, this car is my only car, and I have to do everything with it. I work on my car almost everyday (it is not in a very good shape ) trying to improve it.
But honeslty, I don't know anything about air conditioning systems, I just know I need one. Could anyone tell me the parts I need, and if its possible tell me where can I get them? Of course, I would buy them on internet. Or if anyone has the things I need? Or some of them?
Or, if there is another way to do it, I don't mind to have used parts, my manta is completely original, but about the A/C I don't really care, I need it!
Thanks! and please excuse my bad english

[Killer Texas GT]

Welcome to the group and really your english is better than my spelling. The AC unit for the Manta are quite rare, you will find some once in a while on Ebay (USA and de.). I have some of the parts for the system, really all you need is fan/evaporator unit, the under dash vents and controls, and everything else you should be able to pick up locally. Such as the Compressor, dryer, and condenser from a local auto salvage yard and make you own mounts and brackets from some flat metal and angle metal. I think if you use the "search" engine at the top of the page you will find some information out about the Manta AC. Or send me an e-mail and i will send you the pictures of the parts and what they are. ( rodney(at)opelwerks.com )

[Loeblich]

Hi, I really appreciated your reply, thanks por the welcome, and I'm glad that my English is understandable.
I have been trying to learn enough about the A/C system to buy the pieces and install it to my Manta, I found some on the internet, universal parts; for example, in www.rockauto.com there's a java catalog that appears to have a A/C Receiver Drier and a Expansion Valve, under the Opel - 1973 - Manta - 1898cc - A/C classification. I guess those parts are necessary, and hopefully the right ones, but honestly, I'm not sure.
About the evaporator, compressor and condenser, If I understood correctly, those parts don't have to be an exact model? And which original parts do I need, where could I find these things? I check eBay almost everyday, and tryed for a year to find this info on internet, here Opel is very uncommon, and I have to fix everything by my self, but I guess that if I find the parts, I could find someone who helps me to install it.
Something else, and I hope I'm not abusing, but I found a fan on a "console" (a black box) under the hood, next to the dash, and there is a doct and a very simple valve, to send the air to the top dash, to the bottom of the dash, or to split it. Does this makes it more easy? Is that what you meant when you sayd "the under dash vents and controls"?
Please, if you want pictures just let me know, and, I will accept your offer about the pictures, that would be very helpful.
Thank you a LOT!

Javier Alvarez Löblich

[BQS4]

Javier;
There are two systems that came in the Manta. One was a GM system, which was the most common. Pictured here:
http://www.opelgt.com/photos/showpho...ser/11119/sl/b
The other was an ARA unit that sounds like what you're describing you have in your car. If that is the case, then your system is far rarer and will be harder to find parts to replace it.
Good luck,
Gene

[ddoyle]

Hi Javier, what you are describing sounds like the standard fan and ductwork. Are their 2 coolant hoses attached near the valve and a cable attached to the valve? The hoses might not be there if the heater has been disabled. Also do you still have R-12 refrigerant avalable in your location, that may make a difference in what parts to look for.

Dan

[Loeblich]

BQS4:
"The other was an ARA unit that sounds like what you're describing you have in your car. If that is the case, then your system is far rarer and will be harder to find parts to replace it."

Great!

Thanks for the picture, I finally understood the difference between GM an ARA (I read many posts here about it).
I guess that it is not easy to find the GM system, right? Because I have studied the system on my Manta, and it seems like the GM works as an extension, I'm not sure, but looks like I would fit, and instead of sending the AC to the drivers feet, it would send it through the GM vents, could I be right, or is it more complicated than that?

Ddoyle:

Hi, I think you are right about the standard fan and ductwork, I am attaching some pictures of it. And about the R-12 refrigerant, if that's the one that illegal in many countries, because it is old and I think that environmental-unfriendly; It is available here, most of the cars here are 30 to 20 years old. Is that convenient for me?
There are no coolant hoses attached to valve, there is only a hole, where I think that the hoses used to be. I took pictures of it, let me know if I'm right. And thanks!

Killer Texas GT:

I send you an answer of you reply to your email, but I think the email address is wrong, or maybe it is full... anyway, the text is the same that I wrote before (13 hours ago). Thank you, and I hope you read this.

[BQS4]

Javier;
The main unit, if you look in the picture, is at the far right (passenger side) under the glove box. The air is sent out along the ductwork at the bottom of the dash.
Gene

[SpringGT]

Javier, welcome to the site.

The important thing that you need to get first for your AC system is the evaporator unit that goes inside the car (the underdash unit). It will be a self-contained unit in a case that contains the evaporator, thermostat, expansion valve, fan and some form of air distribution ducts/vents. If you can find one from an old Manta it would be best as it will fit right in with little trouble, but, if not, you could possibly find one at a wrecking yard that is similar and will fit with some alteration.

A third alternative is to find a used evaparator unit that can be readily mounted in the front of the Manta trunk and use flexible hoses to direct the air up through the package tray.

Once you have a suitable evaporator unit for the manta interior, every thing else you need (compressor, condenser, receiver-drier, hoses, etc.) can be bought new or used, since those components are not unique to the Opel. If r-12 is commonly used there and if it is compatible with the compressor you get, use it. Don't use R-12 in a compressor that formerly used R-134 (and vice-versa), as their oils are incompatible.

If you buy a used compressor and condenser make sure that they come from a closed system or have been otherwise sealed in storage as dirt and moisture will ruin a refrigeration system. You will probably have to have new hoses made as needed.

A new receiver-drier is recommended, as it will trap dirt and moisture, and at a cost of $25-30, it is cheap insurance.

Good Luck!

[Loeblich]

I'm starting to get an idea, but far from ready
I seems very unlikely to find anything useful from a junkyard here, I'm doing my best to go to the USA and check out some there. But here it is too difficult to get the papers to get out of the country, specially when you are not a member of the "party" (the government party), but I still have hope.
But even if I can, I still can buy parts in internet, I have an Aunt in Florida, and I can ship the parts to her house, and send them later here.
Does anyone has, or know someone who has this underdash unit? or any AC spare parts and wants to sell them? Anyway, I still check eBay everyday.
The "universal parts" are not a problem, I can get those here, but if I understood correctly, I need the manta evaporator.

SpringGT:

"A third alternative is to find a used evaparator unit that can be readily mounted in the front of the Manta trunk and use flexible hoses to direct the air up through the package tray." That sound like the more probable way, if I find the evaporator. Do you or anyone has a picture of it?
And SpringGT, thanks for the tips, I will by parts from a closed system or sealed. But one question, when you say "trunk" you mean really trunk, or hood? because I can't picture the if it goes in the trunk.
And I will buy all the new pieces that I can (that are compatible).

And if I could choose between a R-12 and R-134 compressor, which one should I get? Here both are available.

About the compressor, Is there a specific model from another car that I could use? I mean, I guess that I am no the first who does this, so, is there any advise about it?

Thanks for the help! And sorry for my English (I know I sayd it before, but I feel like I sould say it again).

[BQS4]

Originally Posted by Loeblich And if I could choose between a R-12 and R-134 compressor, which one should I get? Here both are available.

I would go with the R-134 as most cars over here run this now. R-12 can only be purchased if you have a license and do "commercial" heating and a/c.

[Aardvaark]

Originally Posted by BQS4 Javier; There are two systems that came in the Manta. One was a GM system, which was the most common. Pictured here: http://www.opelgt.com/photos/showpho...ser/11119/sl/b The other was an ARA unit that sounds like what you're describing you have in your car. If that is the case, then your system is far rarer and will be harder to find parts to replace it. Good luck, Gene

Just doing some fact checking. There was also the AMC (Alamo Mfg. Co.) system for Manta's and Asconas. I installed this AMC kit on my 1973 Manta Luxus when it was new. The evaporator installation was different than the ARA or GM systems in that the glove box was cut down and a small evaporator with four round tube outlets for the cold air were connected with hoses to the two existing inboard vents and two new round vent were provided to be installed wherte the '74/75 outboard vents are. So, only the switch pod which was placed in the dash after cutting a hole was visible with the two new outboard cold air vents. I very clean installation, but the glove box was lost. It used the small York compressor mounted much like the ARA unit was on the passengers side in the Manta. I don't know how many of these kits were sold, I bought mine from a radiator/ac shop.
Just want to set the record straight.

[tekenaar]

Originally Posted by BQS4 I would go with the R-134 as most cars over here run this now. R-12 can only be purchased if you have a license and do "commercial" heating and a/c.

. . . uh, well you don't actually have to work in the A/C industry . . . I took a class and tested for the license here in Texas many years ago when there were rumblings in the air about R-12 going away. Very useful, that little piece of paper!

[Loeblich]

Thanks for replying my post.

I don't have any problem with the R-12 and R-134, I live in Venezuela, and... well, let's just say that we don't have any laws about that subject like in the U.S.A., and if we do, no one knows.

I'm trying to get the money to travel to the U.S.A. and buy the parts I need, especially the A/C, remember, is 104 degrees here everyday, the whole year, and believe me, it's impossible to enjoy my Manta when I'm cooking myself in it.

Could you advise me about where could I go to get some spare parts and the A/C kit? Maybe a scrap metal dealer or something like that.

Once I get the money, I'll use the information you all gave me to choose correctly.

Thanks!

[Aardvaark]

Originally Posted by Loeblich Thanks for replying my post. I don't have any problem with the R-12 and R-134, I live in Venezuela, and... well, let's just say that we don't have any laws about that subject like in the U.S.A., and if we do, no one knows. I'm trying to get the money to travel to the U.S.A. and buy the parts I need, especially the A/C, remember, is 104 degrees here everyday, the whole year, and believe me, it's impossible to enjoy my Manta when I'm cooking myself in it. Could you advise me about where could I go to get some spare parts and the A/C kit? Maybe a scrap metal dealer or something like that. Once I get the money, I'll use the information you all gave me to choose correctly. Thanks!

If you are allowed to import from the USA, the suppliers up here will usually ship around the world. Here is my thread of how I put modern AC on my Manta last fall.
http://www.opelgt.com/forums/group-9...g-c-manta.html
I works great in up to the 96F humid days we have had so for this summer. In hotter weather a higher output alternator and auxillary fan may be helpful, I'm not sure since mine works great as is. The one item that will be most likely the hardest to come by will be the double crankshaft pully to drive the compressor. I don't know of a source for new ones. Mine is an original. If you find an old double groove pull and decide to install all new parts, I'd be happy to share the part numbers of what I used for my rear air unit kit.

[Aardvaark]

Originally Posted by Aardvaark Just doing some fact checking. There was also the AMC (Alamo Mfg. Co.) system for Manta's and Asconas. I installed this AMC kit on my 1973 Manta Luxus when it was new. The evaporator installation was different than the ARA or GM systems in that the glove box was cut down and a small evaporator with four round tube outlets for the cold air were connected with hoses to the two existing inboard vents and two new round vent were provided to be installed wherte the '74/75 outboard vents are. So, only the switch pod which was placed in the dash after cutting a hole was visible with the two new outboard cold air vents. I very clean installation, but the glove box was lost. It used the small York compressor mounted much like the ARA unit was on the passengers side in the Manta. I don't know how many of these kits were sold, I bought mine from a radiator/ac shop. Just want to set the record straight.

A little more research on this AMC turns up that it was an Austrailian based company that speciallized in aftermarket AC kits for european cars marketed in Au. Nz. and Asia primarily. They operated from 1970 until 1977 at which point they were bought out by another Au. firm. Some of their kits were offered for sale in the USA through aftermarket AC installers like radiator shops. Replacement parts for the Opel Manta AMC units are still offered by companies like PolarBear.

[Aardvaark]

Her is a list of some companies that provide parts for do it yourselfers and anyone who wants to build up their own kit for cars that don't have kits available today. There are several others, but these are the big reputable ones:

This Danhard company also supplies to aftermarket companies like VintageAir and Classic Auto Air who arr for the most part not manufacturers but kit builders.
Danhard Inc.-Automotive air conditioning manufacturer since 1963.Specialty vehicle,115 volt and aftermarket systems Open the .pdf catalog.

Polar Bear, Inc.

Classic Auto Air | Muscle Car Air Conditioning I bought most of my parts through Classic before I found out Danhard will sell retail direct to anyone.

Vintage Air - Inventors of Performance Air Conditioning - www.vintageair.com

A few Notes. Some places sell "Sanden Like" copycat compressors made in China.
Genuine Sanden compressors are the way to go for only a few bucks more, imo. Repair parts are not a problwm with the real thing.

Also, if you have a choice, go with R134A because it's only a matter of time before repair parts for R12 systems will dry up.

[Aardvaark]

Originally Posted by tekenaar . . . uh, well you don't actually have to work in the A/C industry . . . I took a class and tested for the license here in Texas many years ago when there were rumblings in the air about R-12 going away. Very useful, that little piece of paper!

I haven't bothered to myself, but I have friends who have taken the test recently and they say it's a piece of cake. I sold all my R12 and equipment a while back and bought a new R134A vacuum pump and gauges and will only do R134A now. Word is that R134A will be replace/outlawed in a few years with a non-ozone depleting refrigerant. Even R134A has a problem albeit much less then R12 (Freon).

[Loeblich]

I'll go R-12 or not depending on the possibilities. I don't think I'm in a position to choose what I want.

I just need to install the A/C in any way I can.

I looked up the links of online stores you send me, but still I wouldn't know what to buy!

Sorry for making it so difficult, but I could use some more info, something like specific parts; I will install a new or used system, I just need one that I can buy (It would be better if I could do it over the internet, because I could save the flight money; and things are very difficult here, economically speaking) and that won't need an expert mechanic, I'll probably will install it by myself.

I understand the basics of the A/C, and some mechanics, but I don't have that much experience.

I need the easiest to find and to install, and, I would really appreciate very detailed instructions.

Aardvaark: Thanks for the info, and your post was very helpful, I might follow your steps, but it seems kind of complicated; still, is a very likely possibility.

Thanks again, everyone!

[Sparky73]

Loeblich;

You originally posted this forum in 2006.. does that mean you had to 'bake' for an additional 2 years!?

[Aardvaark]

Originally Posted by Loeblich I'll go R-12 or not depending on the possibilities. I don't think I'm in a position to choose what I want. I just need to install the A/C in any way I can. I looked up the links of online stores you send me, but still I wouldn't know what to buy! Sorry for making it so difficult, but I could use some more info, something like specific parts; I will install a new or used system, I just need one that I can buy (It would be better if I could do it over the internet, because I could save the flight money; and things are very difficult here, economically speaking) and that won't need an expert mechanic, I'll probably will install it by myself. I understand the basics of the A/C, and some mechanics, but I don't have that much experience. I need the easiest to find and to install, and, I would really appreciate very detailed instructions. Aardvaark: Thanks for the info, and your post was very helpful, I might follow your steps, but it seems kind of complicated; still, is a very likely possibility. Thanks again, everyone!

Javier. Based on what you have said, I strongly recommend you look for a complete used Manta A/Ascona A AC system rather then trying to engineer a new one. Repair parts are available for most items for all three systems originally used. The one exception is the double crank pulley WHICH IS A MUST to have as a starting point! As far as I've been able to tell, an original one is your only option for this rare pulley. Without it you can't have AC with old parts or new like I did. Once again, BE SURE an old system you would find has the double crank pulley with it. Too bad someone doesn't produce these ac pulleys today as Manta, Ascona, GT, Kadett and who knows what other Opels could use it as a starting point for building up a system with new parts.