Adding A/C to Manta.

[Aardvaark]

Welp, I've debated with myself whether to start a new thread on this or not...
But couldn't find much Manta/Ascona related on the site.

I've begun the project of installing a totally new A/C system in my '75 Manta
using all new components. So far I've fabbed up the Sanden 508 compressor
mount and installed it and already had the extra belt groove pulley needed.
Here is the progress so far. I expect this to take most of the winter and spring since my Iowa garage is unheated. I do have in my mind what components I'll use and from whom. Any comments would be appreciated though.
Thanks,
Mark

[David McCollam]

Does anyone need any Opel AC components? I have some that I am going to put out on eBay soon. They are an accumulation of ducts and vents with the wiring and controls from the GM 1900 model underdash dealer installed units. Also have the GM compressor brackets and a couple of the A6 compressors, as well as the condensers/mounting brackets for the Manta/Ascona. Drop me a note if anyone has any interest.

[Aardvaark]

Well, this project has progressed much better then I thought it would and
the new a/c system is 95% installed in the Manta. All the components I
picked out ahead of time from Classic Auto Air have gone right in with only
a bit of modification. The barrier hoses for R134A have been dry run installed
and the fittings clocked and taped in position and sent back to CAA for
crimping and should be back this coming week so the project can be wrapped up. That is if we have another day in the 70's so I can evacuate, test and
charge the system before next spring. May have to wait. The blower works really strong on all three speeds though, really kicking out the air.
The evaporator is designed for a much larger interior then the Manta's.
I went with rear air so as not to loose any knee room or the glove box or the dash fresh air vents which would have been the case with in or under dash evaporators available new today.
Here are progress pic's with only the refrigerant hose missing.
Btw. The total weight of all the new ac parts is a little less then 48Lbs including brackets, fasteners, hoses and everything as my kitchen scale measured.

[Aardvaark]

asdfg

[GoinManta]

I am more curious as to the engine side work.. I have an old ARA interior unit, the double pulley and the fan spacer..

Need to figure what to do for compressor and such... so diagrams and such would be greatly appreaciated..

I will definitely be going over your project when I start putting my AC in my sons Manta (Black car, black interior... go figure he wants AC by next summer...)

Charles

[Aardvaark]

Hi Charles.
I'm keeping my engineering drawing and info on the mount for
the Sanden 508/709 compressor I designed and fabricated and pictures of it off of
as well on the engine and will be happy to share. I'll also make up a materials
list. Something to do this winter. This system should work as well on an Ascona sedan.
-Mark

[dallasmanta]

mark,

Good looking set up, I too have a modified AC set up on my 75 manta using a sanden sd 508. in the TX heat the need for a pusher fan is a must.. You will want to run a 100amp alt as well to handle the additional electrical load and will reduce the alt drag on the engine. one additonal suggestion is to use a relay to isolate the electrical draw away from the switched accessory plug at the fuse box. If you dont do this the wires will get hot running the ac and the pusher fan. Ron AKA Dallasmanta

[GoinManta]

Originally Posted by Aardvaark Hi Charles. I'm keeping my engineering drawing and info on the mount for the Sanden 508 compressor I designed and fabricated and pictures of it off of as well on the engine and will be happy to share. I'll also make up a materials list. Something to do this winter. This system should work as well on an Ascona sedan. -Mark

That would be awesome.. how much of this can be sourced at a Pick-a-part.. ?

[Aardvaark]

Originally Posted by dallasmanta mark, Good looking set up, I too have a modified AC set up on my 75 manta using a sanden sd 508. in the TX heat the need for a pusher fan is a must.. You will want to run a 100amp alt as well to handle the additional electrical load and will reduce the alt drag on the engine. one additonal suggestion is to use a relay to isolate the electrical draw away from the switched accessory plug at the fuse box. If you dont do this the wires will get hot running the ac and the pusher fan. Ron AKA Dallasmanta

Thanks for the tips, Ron. If these issues pop up I'll know what to do.
I installed a new ARA kit on my '73 Manta, the one that replaced the glove box with the evaporator case with nothing below the dash, and used the same fuse box plug as the Opel dealer unit did and had no issues with it.
The Buick dealer mechanics back in '73 told me that all US market Manta's and 1900's came with HD cooling radiator/seven blade fan and high output alternator in case AC was installed at the dealership since so many were.

So I'm not expecting any problems at this point with the '75 Manta and this new system, but if I do I'll look into your your suggestions. One thing I'll probably add is a wide open throttle vacuum cutout that the early dealer and ARA units used. I found an adjustable one sold by Omega for $30 that should do the job.
-Mark

[Aardvaark]

Originally Posted by GoinManta That would be awesome.. how much of this can be sourced at a Pick-a-part.. ?

Food for thought....pictures of my home made parts for mounting a Sanden 508/709 and possibly other Sanden units used oem on some cars.
You can go to Sandens website and find demensional drawings of their different compressors on line for download pdf. to determine what to look for at Pick a Part.
Here is my actual compressor from sandens site:
Product Model 4663

My pictures show what I made from hardware store flat bar stock bought at Menards. I also bought a Mr. gasket 9851 chrome adjustment arm for $10 at
Car Quest and made two arms out of it. One for belt adjustment and one to
help support the compressor at the rear after the belt is tightened.
These can be pick a part items too.

Once you have the dimensions, it's really a piece of cake. If you what to
save time and not do all the fabricating that I did, you can buy the universal sanden to york adapter plate with ears from most ac suppliers for about $60 shipped and drill the holes you need and use washers to space the plate away from the engine block for clearing the timing chain adjuster. Should work just as well as my setup. I'm retired and enjoy the fab work not to mention the $50 or saved, so went the more time consuming route.

Left: lower brkt pieces.
middle: upper brkt.
right: lower pieces stacket. Mr. Gasket arm above.

[GoinManta]

Look great..

Hmm.. since your retired.. and like to fab..

How much to have you make a few sets

Actually looking at the lower bracket, I may have a cast iron bracket that will work (One of the old ARA Parts I still have.. )

[Aardvaark]

Originally Posted by GoinManta Look great.. Hmm.. since your retired.. and like to fab.. How much to have you make a few sets Actually looking at the lower bracket, I may have a cast iron bracket that will work (One of the old ARA Parts I still have.. )

Did I mention I'm lazy? Hey, if somebody wants to make up a few sets, I'll give them the engineering info. I plan to post it all here as public information.
Is Ben looking for part time work?

I can in-vision several other ways to do the mounting too. I just chose one
and went with it. Heck, I first tried to buy one off of flea-bay that someone had fabbed that included a used sanden. But the bidding got into the realm
of absurdity, it sold for over $300. Good grief!

As I draw up the parts, I'll post them in this thread.
Here are the critical Manta engine block passenger side mounting bosses
and their relationship to the ac pulley/belt center-line (as measured on my car).
I believe my pulley is from an ARA kit, but am not sure on that. May not make
a diff. My setup uses a CarQuest/Gates 7315 belt, 32-1/8 long. Your results may vary, but it's a starting point with no idler pulley.
All dimension are in inches unless otherwise noted.

[Aardvaark]

Here are the rest of the parts drawings. I made them all with a hacksaw, bench vise, machinists hammer, small drill press, bench grinder and bastard file. Used mild steel 1/4 thick x 1-1/2 wide flat bar from most any hardware store. Slotting the two 0.5" holes in the 5-5/8" long plate isn't a bad idea to give a bit of front to back adjustment to align the compressor pulley with the crank pulley. In fact the lower three parts could be welded together rather
then bolted saving some drilling.

The fasteners for the bracket are all 10mm x 1.50 pitch.
30, 35 and 40 mm long. The two places noted with a clearance issue use hex socket hd screws with smaller diameter head then hex hd screws.

[GoinManta]

Great.. could you draft up somthing that kind of shows how they go together? I Can kind of see it in the pictures....

Charles

[Aardvaark]

Originally Posted by GoinManta Great.. could you draft up somthing that kind of shows how they go together? I Can kind of see it in the pictures.... Charles

I revised the above drawing to include an assembly view and labled the components
as items. Along with the photos, I hope this explains how they go together.
My ancient 2D acad program doesn't allow for hidden lines or much else.

[GoinManta]

Thats really helps..

Hmm....

Could you email me the DWG file? WIth the Sanyo compressor drawing I do the whole thing in 3D fairly easily..

Hmm.. x2

Looking at the Sanyo website they have electric compressors now for EV units !!! Awesome.. !! Now just curious if a high power altenrator could run it instead of pulling the power off the motor... But I digress.



Charles

[Aardvaark]

Originally Posted by GoinManta Thats really helps.. Hmm.... Could you email me the DWG file? WIth the Sanyo compressor drawing I do the whole thing in 3D fairly easily.. Charles

Good idea. But could you print out sanden's drawings from their site?
Product Model 4663
Buttons at bottom of page for different views of my SD7 compressor.

I'll e-mail you my dwg file if you provide an e-mail address. I've had no luck
with attachments on PM's.
I don't appear to have yours in my contacts yet.

I miss working with inventor since retiring. I could have provided a great
3D layout.

If you do 3D, I'd appreciate seeing the results.

[Aardvaark]

Originally Posted by GoinManta Thats really helps.. Hmm.... Could you email me the DWG file? WIth the Sanyo compressor drawing I do the whole thing in 3D fairly easily.. Hmm.. x2 Looking at the Sanyo website they have electric compressors now for EV units !!! Awesome.. !! Now just curious if a high power altenrator could run it instead of pulling the power off the motor... But I digress. Charles

Don't see why not. Some people have mounted house window ac units in
their campers and vans and ran them off of stationary portable generators.
while running down the road.

[Aardvaark]

I'm thinking the coolcop deal might be a good idea for really hot days:
CoolCop-Body Armor Air Conditioning

[Aardvaark]

One more comment I ment to make earlier is to be aware that there are many people selling Chinese copies of the Sanden compressors usually listed
as sanden "like" "type" etc. Usually cheaper in price and probably
not reparible with genuine sanden/sanyo replacement parts.

[GoinManta]

Originally Posted by Aardvaark Good idea. But could you print out sanden's drawings from their site? Product Model 4663 Buttons at bottom of page for different views of my SD7 compressor. I'll e-mail you my dwg file if you provide an e-mail address. I've had no luck with attachments on PM's. I don't appear to have yours in my contacts yet. I miss working with inventor since retiring. I could have provided a great 3D layout. If you do 3D, I'd appreciate seeing the results.

I should be able to open the files.. I havent found a file I cant open usually. Im the office guru that everyone sends stuff to print and open when they cant

cdgoin@yahoo.com works (Its my "spam" email so I am not afraid of posting here)

I run ACAD 2008 MEP and can even do a small animation.. nothing like solidworks or inventor.. but it will do the job.

Got any dimesions of the arms ?

[Aardvaark]

Originally Posted by GoinManta Got any dimesions of the arms ?

I'll have to try measuring them on the car. I just sort of wingged it when making them. Should be able to get close though....

[GoinManta]

Think I found the car..

VOLVO
1990 - 1993 240
1985 - 1990 760
1985 - 1989 244
1988 - 1991 780
1985 - 1989 245
1991 - 1994 940
1985 - 1992 740
1992 - 1993 960
1985 745

Now the trick is to cross which came with R12 and which with R134a

And if this compressor the Dks15ch which looks to be a OEM knock off of the Sanden is dimensionally the same.

Also early 90s VW Golf has the same configuration.. was Sanden, and was 134a, but has the hoses coming off the rear.. so may conflict with te exhaust manifold...

Charles

[Aardvaark]

Originally Posted by GoinManta Think I found the car.. Now the trick is to cross which came with R12 and which with R134a Also early 90s VW Golf has the same configuration.. was Sanden, and was 134a, but has the hoses coming off the rear.. so may conflict with te exhaust manifold... Charles

Rear would be an issue. I sent you an e-mail on clearance issues with rear ports before reading this. When my hoses come back for CCA, hopefully later this week, I'll snap and post a picture of the compressor with the service port fittings and gauge fittings in place so you can see how it looks to work on. My dry run before crimping had everything okay but not real far from the exhaust manifold. For a test, I used one of the extra 90 deg fittings and a short piece of hose with a extra plastic cap
wire tied to the fitting where the gauge port protective cap would be and drove the car several miles then let it idle for half an hour to see if anything would be damaged by heat. Looked good. Soooo, in a worse case, I'll have to buy a small heat shield patch, like one of the 12"x12" from a race supplier and use it. Don't think it'll be necessary though. Just mentioning it.

If you find a good R12 unit, just change the shaft seal and compressor oil and you should be good to go with R134A. With this Sanden compressor, you start out with only a topped up oil level in the compressor without adding any more oil to the system. You can find the compressor oil capacity on the sanyo/sanden site drawings. You can buy most compressor repair parts fron Polar Air or maybe Napa locally.
Truth be known, the reason I popped $240 shipped for a new SD7 were these issues and the running around to correct them.

-Mark

Closeups of mounting fasteners and obstacles:

[GoinManta]

Did I mention I am making my son pay for the parts

It is his car after all..

Well I am giving him any parts I have in my garage.. so other than the new hoses, evaporator, dryer, and the compressor I have most everything else. Hoping to get him AC for under about $250 installed.

Charles