A True 1968 Opel GT??

[GTJIM]

Kadetts & GTs - Bochum in Gernamy

Mantas,& 1900 Asconas - Antwerp in Belgium

Opel kept the two different chassis types seperate.

[Motor Mouth]

Originally Posted by GTJIM Been looking for the link to that site - one of the first found when I got my GT - I urge everyone who can to list their GT on it as that is a listing of actual GT VIN numbers - REAL WORLD ONES! Still leaves some questions though as the "geplante Start-FG-Nr." is quoted as VIN # 1 551 000 which is way after the Buick Parts Book 1969 Model year start VIN # 1 535 504 BTW: 'geplante' => planned By the dates it looks like VIN # 1 587 440 was produced on 12.9.68 and is the start number for the Mass Production and the "1969 Model" There is only one 'real' GT listed by its owner before this - VIN # 1558 200 - the oldest GT known to the site and as such, I would say, the only True "1968 Model" listed there. Thus - apart from the unexplained Buick Parts Book number (Kadett not GT?) VIN # 1 535 504 it appears that "True" 1968 Models fall between VIN # 1 551 000 and VIN # 1 587 439 Sound logical?

Jim, all sounds logical to me but don't know if I agree. Are you suggesting that any car that has a VIN after 1 587 440, as in a series 1, is not a true '68? Can I ask what you're basing the decision on, is it the cross reference to the Opel Parts Book?

To add another question to the mix, have we calculated how my GT's were being built each day / week? For me I keep refering back to the number of sales in the year '68 which is 500 odd. If we know the build rate surely then we will know how many GT's are '68s. Surely any series 1 built before 31st Dec 1968 is a true '68 and this would then be up to a chassis / VIN number of approximately 1 671 024, this shows production as mid/12/68.

[GTJIM]

Originally Posted by Motor Mouth Surely any series 1 built before 31st Dec 1968 is a true '68 and this would then be up to a chassis / VIN number of approximately 1 671 024, this shows production as mid/12/68.

No cigar! Many cars from any maker built before 1/01/69 are "1969 Models" - particularly in the U.S. of A. where the 'NEW' models are rolled out well before Christmas. By convention there the model year start date is 1 September as I recall. This is around VIN # 1 600000 so that is about as far as I would 'stretch' the 1968 Models. Opel must have had an 'official' cut off point where model year changed ....... GTs with VIN #'s as high as 1 671 024 may have been made in 1968 but were surely "1969 Models"

Note from OpelWorld's VIN list that no GT listed before VIN # 1607208 is registered on the road before 1/01/69 either ... and that is in Germany.

Opel's GT production rate rose to just on 80 a day at the beginning of Series production according to OpelGTWorld.de - before that it was lower.

[Motor Mouth]

Originally Posted by GTJIM Note from OpelWorld's VIN list that no GT listed before VIN # 1607208 is registered on the road before 1/01/69 either ... and that is in Germany.

Yes but......... my '68 VIN number is after that and the car was registered and on the road in Nov '68 and more importantly cars in the UK are only registered once they've been first sold off the forecourt, and so there will have been no way that the car was pre-registered to then appear after the 01/01/69.

I wonder if someone at Opel would give an answer on this, we're all doing so much speculating, I'm sticking by the fact that mine is a '68 (and it shouldn't even matter because I don't own it anymore, but it's the principle of the thing). With only 170 odd GT's ever being officially imported into the Uk over the 5year (68-73.....or should that be 74 period) there can't have been that many cars sold, released or whatever in 1968

[hallgeir]

Originally Posted by Motor Mouth I wonder if someone at Opel would give an answer on this, we're all doing so much speculating,

I would also like to get this clarified by someone at Opel. Maybe Mr. Rainer Hopfengart, or Mr. Ernst-Peter Berresheim could help us. What we need to know is from what date is it a 1969 model year, and also if possible, what is the first 1969 model year VIN #.
My GT was made in mid december 1968, but Mr. Ernst-Peter Berresheim called it a model year 1969 in his answer to me:

Date of shipment: 19.12.1968
Country: Norway

We have no references that your car was the first GT delivered to Norway.

If you consider the date of shipment, which is always very close to the
date of production your car must be MY 1969.

So what do you think, guys. Should we contact them?

[2 Fast 4 U]

Originally Posted by GTJIM Kadetts & GTs - Bochum in Gernamy Mantas,& 1900 Asconas - Antwerp in Belgium Opel kept the two different chassis types seperate.

The Ascona was not only built in Antwerp, my Ascona is from Russelheim. I do have to mention that most of the cars built in Germany were for the German market.
The reason that I have a car from Russelheim, is because it was imported to Holland, when the car was declared total loss by the German authorities.

[GTJIM]

Mark - do you know the body build number of your "1968" GT ?
The one with 'U' in front of it stamped on the LH radiator support gusset.

The earliest one in the OpelGT.org list is U 1080 for VIN # 1 651 241
There is an earlier # 1718 listed for VIN # 1 648 389 but I suspect that is a mis-print and should be U 718
Looks to me like this "U" number gives the actually number of GTs built up to that VIN number. So if you have or can get that Body number it may let us know how early your ex-GT actually is.

[Motor Mouth]

Hi Jim,

Yes I know the stamp number that you're on about, but unfortunately I don't have it........however I have done the only sensible thing and sent Opel an email for some further information on the car.

Fingers crossed we'll all have some news tomorrow.

[66kadett]

My bad. I am hereby chastened and humbled. Bochum Opels rule!

[hallgeir]

Originally Posted by Motor Mouth Hi Jim, Yes I know the stamp number that you're on about, but unfortunately I don't have it........however I have done the only sensible thing and sent Opel an email for some further information on the car. Fingers crossed we'll all have some news tomorrow.

Have you heard anything from Opel, Mark?
Or are they still busy working overtime, answering e-mails from classic-Opel owners, maybe?

[opelgtworld]

According to official data the first "Mass Production" GT was finished on 12 September 1968 in Bochum (VIN 1587440). These data also are listed in the spare-parts-catalogue. In the service manual the VIN 1551000 is mentioned.
It concerns the planned "Start VIN Number", which is assigned before the production of a new vehicle. It serves the technical documentation, which must stand to the start of sales for order. It must be also considered that the assignment of Opel VIN numbers not specifically took place for each model - it was sequentially counted up. Only the "Type-Key" set before the VIN number (for example 93 or 94) provided for the exact identification of the model.
The official public presentation took place at the 24.September 1968 in Frankfurt. At the beginning of May 1967 the first hand-made prototypes were already manufactured by Chausson. The first "Pilot Lot Vehicles" were built in May 1968 (about 50). These vehicles were driven and tested by journalists before the official presentation. The VIN numbers of these vehicles are unknown.

The first official registered GTs in Germany:
September 1968 - 1
Oktober 1968 - 42
November 1968 - 3
Dezember 1968 - 3
Januar 1969 - 705

[Anonymous D]

Additional information on the 1968 Opel GT,
including photos of never-before seen
part configurations (such as the pair of
bumpers on inside top of each door,
different hood design, and other variations),
are the featured tech tip of the current
January-February issue of the OMC Blitz newsletter.

This is part of a larger overall article, covering
a visit to the Opel heritage museum
of historic vehicles, at the factory site in
Russelsheim.

[booeman]

Originally Posted by 2 Fast 4 U The Ascona was not only built in Antwerp, my Ascona is from Russelheim. I do have to mention that most of the cars built in Germany were for the German market. The reason that I have a car from Russelheim, is because it was imported to Holland, when the car was declared total loss by the German authorities.

my 71 sport coupe reads - Russelsheim Werk Bochum Nr/No 579507405. It was bought by the PO in Bakersfield,Ca. in the spring of 71.

[Motor Mouth]

Originally Posted by hallgeir Have you heard anything from Opel, Mark? Or are they still busy working overtime, answering e-mails from classic-Opel owners, maybe?

No really disappointed that I've not heard anything. I'm going to try them again as I have another car that I'd like to know about....a Kadett C GT/E.

[Dennis Texas]

seems like an interesting conversation here. I don't want to add to the already confusing aspects of the very early model GT's but does anyone know how to recognize the H head that is supposedly on the very early 1.9 engines. If it was not already installed I guess the combustion chamber would be a tell tale but surely there must be some way to recognize it. I hope it is not one of the 3 bearing heads.

[RallyBob]

Originally Posted by Dennis Texas seems like an interesting conversation here. I don't want to ad to the already confusing aspects of the very early model GT's but does anyone know how to recognize the H head that is supposedly on the very early 1.9 engines. If it was not already installed I guess the combustion chamber would be a tell tale but surely there must be some way to recognize it. I hope it is not one of the 3 bearing heads.

The '19H' stamped on the side of the head (forward of the side cam cover) is usually indicative. I suppose I could get the casting number off one of mine too, that would be different than the 'normal' 1.9 heads.

Yes, all the pre-'71 heads (except for some very late '70's) were 3-bearing heads. The exception to this would be a factory replacement head casting. I actually have a retrofitted 1974 'H' head with 4 cam bearings, but it was a likely a replacement for a cracked head.

Bob

[Dennis Texas]

wow that was quick LOL I'm probably going to get it out today and see if it'll crank has not been started in about 15 years now and will take a look see at that head.
I don't doubt your expertise on opels but I just want to say that I've owned probably 15 of these cars over time and right now I have one for every year they were made and I have yet to have one with a 3 bearing head in it. So guess mine does not have the H head on it, but I'll look anyways.


Thanks

[Dennis Texas]

see where one of my car's was referenced
1 651 241 94 U 1080 US split bumper Gator Texas .....that s my car
I'm presently getting it out to get it cranked up and it was my mistake earlier in post this engine was not the original engine in the car in fact it is a dished later model engine that is in it. I just rebuilt a flat piston top engine probably do a little engine swapping around. I'm trying to get all the cars back as they are suppose to be.

[jeff denton]

When I have a "19" three bearing head sitting next to a "19H" three bearing head and compare their combustion chambers, I can't spot any differences, with the naked eye, that is.
The only difference in casting numbers I see is an "11J" on the "19H" head, whereas the "19" head says "3M" there. This is between cylinder #1's lifters and the cover rail.
Externally I spot no differences except a hardly readable two digit raised number just aft of the side cover.
All other markings inside and out are identical except of course the stamped numbers forward of the cover.
I still want a 1.6 head, I think... or a 1.7, whatever that is. Or an "L" head, but then I wake up.