A True 1968 Opel GT??

[tomcat]

Well I looked over some previous threads and decided to list here what I know about my GT. I am looking for someone that can tell me if it is a 68 or not???
vin # 941697445
split front bumper
flat rear panel
speedometer without "W"
instruments dated 10/68 and 11/68
instrument chrome face different
wiper switch has resistor on back
no J on vin plate but has "H H"
button on blinker switch for high beems
Inside heater control valve
no drain holes on bottom of front bumperettes although not sure if they came with this opel
Only the title says 69 but it is quite possible that it was built in 68 then titled later. don't really know anything anyway just fishing I guess.
opel gt A L
also has the exaust header with tubes running through it

[kwilford]

Originally Posted by tomcat ...is a 68 or not??? instruments dated 10/68 and 11/68

It was quite possibly built in 1968. However, by North American convention, cars built after September 1 are the "next" model year. Since your instruments were built in November 1968, your car must have been built after that, so I would suggest it is a 1969 by the convention. Opinions may vary...

[hallgeir]

My GT has a even lower VIN #: 941671024, and the gauges says 10/68. I wrote to Opel in Germany about it, and they say it is a 1969 model year. It was shipped 19 December 1968, and the production date is always very close to that. So I would say your GT is produced early in 1969.
You can read the answer I got from Opel in my post here:
http://www.opelgt.com/forums/general...tml#post117313

[GTJIM]

My Factory "Opel and GT Parts Book" - effective July, 1974 - has Model Lists in the front of it which clearly state that 1969 GT/Kadett assembly for the "1969" Model Year started:

"Cars built at Bochum beginning Chassis # . . 1535504"

Since Kadett and GT were built at Bochum Werks and the Chassis numbers were mixed - the latest GT that can be confirmed as a "1968" Model is 94 (or 93) 1535503

There were about 161,941 Kadetts/GTs built in the "1969" Model year before your GT was built. There were LOTS more Kadetts than GTs built - maybe over 1 million of them each year.

The "H H" on your VIN plate is the colour code.

[tekenaar]

Weren't all the actual "true" '68 GTs 1.9 powered? Can't remember ever reading anywhere about a verified '68 1.1 GT . . . that, and none of the GM manuals of those years even list the GT model of any kind as being available in '68 . . .

"H" designation on your VIN plate only means it was BUILT in '68, still falling in that gray "9-1-'68 to 12-31-'68" build period whose model years are 1969 here. That said, all the things you've listed in your description makes a pretty good case for your GT's model debate, IMO . . .

[GTJIM]

Originally Posted by tekenaar Weren't all the actual "true" '68 GTs 1.9 powered? Can't remember ever reading anywhere about a verified '68 1.1 GT . . . that, and none of the GM manuals of those years even list the GT model of any kind as being available in '68 . . .

Otto, Have a look at: Opel GT - Die Daten der Produktreihe

This indicates that 12 1.1L GTs were built in 1968 - but not if any were imported into the U.S. of A. You will be able to read this site better than I!

[tekenaar]

Originally Posted by GTJIM Otto, Have a look at: Opel GT - Die Daten der Produktreihe This indicates that 12 1.1L GTs were built in 1968 - but not if any were imported into the U.S. of A. You will be able to read this site better than I!

Nice site!! . . . but doesn't really address the "pre/post 9/1/68 production vs. model year" issue though . . .

[GTJIM]

In the UK and elsewhere it is the Date of initial Registration with the appropriate authority that determines the legitimacy (and legal definition of) the 'year' of a car - not when it was made. Thus any car issued with number plates before 1st January, 1969 is a "1968 Model" there.

Buick/GM in the U.S. of A. on the other hand emphatically list a cut off VIN number so that a GT MUST be numbered before XX1535504 to be a "1968 Model" there.

That is why there are some "1974 Models" talked about over there - registered after production had ceased in 1973 - that are "1973 Models" in actuality.

The bottom line is that the one verifiable thing is the VIN number and I would not accept any GT anywhere as a "1968 Model" unless the original VIN was below XX1535504 ...... Those who claim to have "1968 Models" which have VINs above that figure are just trying to cash in on genuine rarities. I don't think any GTs with VINs before XX1535504 have been fully documented on this site - yet. Please prove that there are a couple of such somewhere.

[Motor Mouth]

GTJIM..... I hear what you're saying about the '68-69 issue and it's relation to the Chassis / VIN number but having looked at some of the old posts form when I had my 68GT, I have to come back to the following quote, which came from the people maintaining the GT chassis number records, 'The oldest GT we're acquainted with is 94 15 582 00, Marks (aka Motor Mouth) GT has the nr. 94 16 076 62.

My chassis number is definitely higher than your cut off, in fact, the oldest GT chassis number they're aware of, 94 15 582 00, is higher than the cut-off you identify but I have to maintain that, as you've rightly pointed out, my GT was registered in the UK in Nov 68, this has to mean that the car was built in 1968 as the car will have to have been built early enough for the body to have come from the French Body Builders via rail and then built up as a complete car. After that it will then have still had to be shipped over to the UK, cleared from the docs, transported to the dealership and then prepared for sale.

I think the only way to clarify the situation for TOMCAT, whose VIN number is higher than mine is for him to contact Opel and ask for verification.

[opelnut10]

Originally Posted by GTJIM In the UK and elsewhere it is the Date of initial Registration with the appropriate authority that determines the legitimacy (and legal definition of) the 'year' of a car - not when it was made. Thus any car issued with number plates before 1st January, 1969 is a "1968 Model" there. Buick/GM in the U.S. of A. on the other hand emphatically list a cut off VIN number so that a GT MUST be numbered before XX1535504 to be a "1968 Model" there. That is why there are some "1974 Models" talked about over there - registered after production had ceased in 1973 - that are "1973 Models" in actuality. The bottom line is that the one verifiable thing is the VIN number and I would not accept any GT anywhere as a "1968 Model" unless the original VIN was below XX1535504 ...... Those who claim to have "1968 Models" which have VINs above that figure are just trying to cash in on genuine rarities. I don't think any GTs with VINs before XX1535504 have been fully documented on this site - yet. Please prove that there are a couple of such somewhere.

There were the same amount of 68 GT's were imported by GM to the US as there are 1983 Corvettes, zip, nil, nada, zilch, zero and any other way you want to say it. No such verhicle exist unless it was sold overseas, titled there as a 68 then wound up in the US. Split front bumper, dimmer button on the end of the turn signal lever, flat rear panel, rectangluar indicator lights on dash panel and such only indicates it is a Early 69.

[hallgeir]

As you can read from the answer I got from Opel, my GT was shipped 19 desember 1968, and the production date is always very close to that, so mid-desember +/- a few days. It has VIN # 941671024. TOMCAT`s has VIN # 941697445, that is 26421 Kadetts/GTs later. Model year 1969 starts, as Jim has said at VIN #1535504, and model year 1970 starts at VIN #1891174. That is 355670 kadetts/GTs produced in the 1969 model year. That is an average pr month of 29639. From that I would say TOMCAT`s GT is built in january 1969. Remember, this is not an exact science.
TOMCAT, write them an e-mail and ask them. Then you`ll know for sure.
As you also can read from Opel`s answer to me, they call mine a model year 1969. From what I have heard in past years, they start the model year 1 september.
I also wonder why there`s not mentioned a 1968 GT model year at all in the Opel and GT parts book. Kadett, yes, but GT, no.
As you can read from the site that Jim links to in his post #6, the bodys from France started to arrive at Bochum in september 1968, wouldn`t that be in the 1969 model year? So, what is a true 1968 GT?
Exciting stuff this. I wonder if any of our German friends here can throw some light over this? Or, should we try asking Opel to clarify, once and for all?

[Motor Mouth]

Originally Posted by opelnut10 There were the same amount of 68 GT's were imported by GM to the US as there are 1983 Corvettes, zip, nil, nada, zilch, zero and any other way you want to say it. No such verhicle exist unless it was sold overseas, titled there as a 68 then wound up in the US. Split front bumper, dimmer botton on the end of the turn signal lever, flat rear panel, rectangluar indicator lights on dash panel and such only indicates it is a Early 69.

But the big give away for that would be that a European GT would have different rear wings to a US GT, we don't have the side markers on the aft of the rear wing like you guys.

I suppose that then creates another question....how many American GT owners have cars without rear markers on the rear wing?

[Motor Mouth]

Surely a true 68 has to be anyone of the 541 cars produced, be it 1.1 or 1.9.

The only people who can give us the absolute answer are the bods at Opel. If I could find my copy of Projekt 1484 I would give you the chassis numbers that they list for the production years, so if anyone has a copy to hand maybe they could add a post?

[2 Fast 4 U]

Maybe this can help, Copied from the OMC Blitz Oct 2006
"GT VIN chassis codes, month-by-month, from October 1969 through June 1971"

941602249 (Oct69)
941630311 (Nov69)
941656936 (Dec69)
941681527 (Jan70)
941714445 (Feb70)
941743245 (Mar70)
941777158 (Apr70)
931807911 (May70)
941838648 (Jun70)
941867347 (Jul70)
941888798 (Aug70)
941912266 (Sep70)
941948005 (Oct70)
941983580 (Nov70)
942018199 (Dec70)
942048756 (Jan71)
942082518 (Feb71)
942113440 (Mar71)
942147481 (Apr71)
942182518 (May71)
942106700 (Jun71).

[2 Fast 4 U]

Originally Posted by tekenaar Weren't all the actual "true" '68 GTs 1.9 powered? Can't remember ever reading anywhere about a verified '68 1.1 GT . . . that, and none of the GM manuals of those years even list the GT model of any kind as being available in '68 . . .

Copied from the OMC Blitz Oct 2006

Although the earliest GT date-specific VIN listed is for the start of the 1970 model year (#93-1559041),
some 1.9S monthly starting engine codes:

from late 1968 are:
0144099 (Sep 68)
0151061 (Oct 68)
0158470 (Nov 68)
0164067 (Dec 68)

and the 1.9 engine codes for early 1969 are:
0169809 (Jan 69)
0176833 (Feb 69)
0182374 (Mar 69)

Provided 1.1US engine codes for 1968-1969 are:
000448 (Sep 68)
001878 (Oct 68)
003699 (Nov 68)
005544 (Dec 68)
008094 (Jan 69)
013373 (Feb 69)
015455 (Mar 69)

[opelnut10]

Originally Posted by Motor Mouth But the big give away for that would be that a European GT would have different rear wings to a US GT, we don't have the side markers on the aft of the rear wing like you guys. I suppose that then creates another question....how many American GT owners have cars without rear markers on the rear wing?

My 71 GT does not have rear side marker lights, as that was a US only requirment and it came here from Europe. Just think I don't have to pay through the nose for perfect or NOS lights, that why I drink Crown Royal instead of Canadian MIst I am power coating the bumpers and trim black and doing it into a GT/J that way I can buy 1/2 gallon instead of a quart

[hallgeir]

Originally Posted by 2 Fast 4 U Maybe this can help, Copied from the OMC Blitz Oct 2006 "GT VIN chassis codes, month-by-month, from October 1969 through June 1971" 941602249 (Oct69) 941630311 (Nov69) 941656936 (Dec69) 941681527 (Jan70) 941714445 (Feb70) 941743245 (Mar70) 941777158 (Apr70) 931807911 (May70) 941838648 (Jun70) 941867347 (Jul70) 941888798 (Aug70) 941912266 (Sep70) 941948005 (Oct70) 941983580 (Nov70) 942018199 (Dec70) 942048756 (Jan71) 942082518 (Feb71) 942113440 (Mar71) 942147481 (Apr71) 942182518 (May71) 942106700 (Jun71).

My GT was shipped 19 december 1968, but according to this list it was made in december 1969. A year later.

[2 Fast 4 U]

According to the info in my posting #16:

941671024 Hallgeir dec 69
941697445 Tomcat jan 70
941607662 Motor Mouth oct 69
941558200 pre oct 69

[hallgeir]

Wow, guys. Our cars sure were ahead of time.
Or...... that list is a year off.

[GTJIM]

Originally Posted by Motor Mouth I have to come back to the following quote, which came from the people maintaining the GT chassis number records, '[B]The oldest GT where acquainted is 94 15 582 00, . My chassis number is definately higher than your cut off, infact the oldest GT chassis number their aware of, 94 15 582 00, is higher than the cut-off you identify ........ contact Opel and ask for verification.

There is always the possibility of a typographical error in the Parts Book - for instance VIN # 1535504 may be in actuality # 1553504 which would tie in more closely to the known numbers and a production rate of around 80 GTs a day after September 1968. Before that date the French builders had not attained that level of production and in the early days there were pilot runs of virtually hand built cars.

It would be good to know what the build date for the earliest known VIN # 94 15 582 00 actually was. Also the VIN numbers for the ones Projekt 1484 lists as "1968 Models" .. all 541 of them - including the 12 1.1L models.

Of course, in the "1968" Model year the CIH Kadetts used the 1.5L motor - it was not till "1969 Models" that the 1.9L motor was made available .... and the GT was based upon the Kadett chassis ......

If we all keep digging more and more info will turn up!

[Motor Mouth]

Originally Posted by hallgeir Wow, guys. Our cars sure were ahead of time. Or...... that list is a year off.

......maybe we have the prototypes!

Originally Posted by opelnut10 My 71 GT does not have rear side marker lights, as that was a US only requirment and it came here from Europe. Just think I don't have to pay through the nose for perfect or NOS lights, that why I drink Crown Royal instead of Canadian MIst I am powder coating the bumpers and trim black and doing it into a GT/J that way I can buy 1/2 gallon instead of a quart

Don't forget if your doing a GT/J you'll also need to change your window rubbers, lose the heater element on the rear screen (if your GT has the option), lose the chrome blitz on the front and fill in your back panel so it has no chrome text, change your driving light pods, change your wing mirror, change your gas cap, change your oil / voltmeter gauge, lose the clock for an OPEL blitz blanking plate, change your carpet for rubber mats, lose the chrome trims to your wheels and order in the GT/J stripe to finish off the look.....just a little bit more work for you during the winter months

[2 Fast 4 U]

Originally Posted by hallgeir Wow, guys. Our cars sure were ahead of time. Or...... that list is a year off.

I think the list is off

[Motor Mouth]

[QUOTE=GTJIM;117564]It would be good to know what the build date for the earliest known VIN # 94 15 582 00 actually was. Also the VIN numbers for the ones Projekt 1484 lists as "1968 Models" .. all 541 of them - including the 12 1.1L models.[QUOTE]

Jim do you have link to these VIN numbers as I can't see anything on the link to the Projekt 1484 site?

[hallgeir]

Jim, you have the 1968-1973 Opel and GT parts book, effective july 1974. I have the 1968-1973 Opel and GT parts book, effective may 1973, and it says the same as yours: 1969 model year, Cars built at Bochum beginning Chassis # . . 1535504.

[GTJIM]

Originally Posted by Motor Mouth Jim do you have link to these VIN numbers as I can't see anything on the link to the Projekt 1484 site?

I have "Babelfished" that site all through and there are no VIN numbers I can find on it. Guess we are going to have to hope that they are in the book itself ... and 'somebody' can find his copy. I have "Das Grosse Busch" but not a copy of "Projekt 1484"