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#1 (permalink) |
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Panel Beater
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Cowansville quebec
Posts: 195
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Unanswered: 71 VIN on a 69 GT?
The serial number and build date are on the door sticker with dots and the serial # on the dash and cowl match the door serial #. The registration is for a 1971 Opel GT with the serial # matching the car, but the car in every way except for the wheels and color appears to be a 1969. It is code 411 gold with 69 doors, dash and no pop-out windows with 1900 emblem on the back. A very strange car. Anyone know if this is normal or has anyone heard of this happening and why? John
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1970 Opel GT Sunburst Yellow 1971 GT 1972 Opel GT Fireglow Orange
Last edited by tekenaar; 05-26-2008 at 12:51 PM. Reason: none |
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#2 (permalink) | |
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Cunning Linguist
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Plano, TX 75074
Posts: 4,441
Real Name: Otto
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1960: ♥ '61 Rekord PII 1.7 3S 3.9 ♥ '69 Kadett LS 'sprint' 1.9 3A 3.18 1970: ♥ '70 GT 1.9 4S 3.44 ♥ '72 GT 2.2SSD 5S 3.44 ♥ '72 GT 2.4FI 5S 3.44P 1980: ♥ '85 Bitter SC 3.9FI 5S 3.44P 2000: ♥ '09 Solstice GXP Coupe 2.0 SIDI VVT Turbo 5S 3.73P |
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#3 (permalink) |
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Opeler
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Pa. U.S.A.
Posts: 39
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title
Sounds like you have a 69 that wasn't titled till 71. One that a dealer kept to run himself or a demonstrator. Title was listed the year when the car was 1st sold to an individual. The 77 vin is newer which may indicate a car rebuilt from both a 69 and 71.
Last edited by trailblazer2727; 05-26-2008 at 01:02 PM. Reason: hit wrong key |
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#4 (permalink) | |
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Cunning Linguist
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Plano, TX 75074
Posts: 4,441
Real Name: Otto
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The "77" Model number designation alone correctly IDs it as a '71 GT, i.e. built after 9/70 . . . all the other indicators are most likely "after-the-fact" add-ons . . . simply, car had damaged driver door replaced by one from a '69, hence the build-date sticker.
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1960: ♥ '61 Rekord PII 1.7 3S 3.9 ♥ '69 Kadett LS 'sprint' 1.9 3A 3.18 1970: ♥ '70 GT 1.9 4S 3.44 ♥ '72 GT 2.2SSD 5S 3.44 ♥ '72 GT 2.4FI 5S 3.44P 1980: ♥ '85 Bitter SC 3.9FI 5S 3.44P 2000: ♥ '09 Solstice GXP Coupe 2.0 SIDI VVT Turbo 5S 3.73P Last edited by tekenaar; 05-26-2008 at 01:28 PM. |
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#5 (permalink) |
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6,000 Post Club
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Imperial Beach, CA South of San Diego
Posts: 6,054
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That is a strange scenario. I just checked out Willit?'s door jam sticker to verify. My VIN is 7727..... with a build date of 01/72, so something in the milk ain't clean and I'm thinking that the cow is dirty too.
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Ron 72 GT 3.4L V-6/T-5/ZF posi - almost done - Just need AC installed. ![]() 75 Chevy monza 5.7L/TH350/Auburn 3.08 posi - Next |
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#6 (permalink) | |
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Panel Beater
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Cowansville quebec
Posts: 195
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I cannot understand a door sticker with a 71 serial # with a 09/69 production date. I was suspicious, but everything matched! The factory puts on the stickers, not the dealers. I am wondering if anybody has heard of something like this before. I can't see how it was tampered. Are there counterfeit door stickers?
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1970 Opel GT Sunburst Yellow 1971 GT 1972 Opel GT Fireglow Orange
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#7 (permalink) |
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Opeler
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Pa. U.S.A.
Posts: 39
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split titles
I agree with you that a 2 car reconstruct at the factory level wouldn't have happened. But at a dealers or body shop at the time these cars were built, quite possible. That is why disclosure laws were enacted. It wasn't uncommon to take a car totaled in the front and one totaled in the rear and combine them, still isn't. Upfront dealers either got reconstructed titles or told the buyer what they were getting, others usually used the newest title since it would be worth more. I helped to wash out and repair several under water flood cars in 72 when I worked at a body shop. They all had good titles and were sent to auction with no guarantee. The dealers had collected the flood insurance and then sold them. They were supposed to be sold for scrap, but no one checked how the dealers disposed of them.
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#8 (permalink) |
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Panel Beater
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Cowansville quebec
Posts: 195
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That still doesn't explain how a factory sticker was put back on a car with a different production date. Back in the 70's I too repaired wrecks, and generally they were not listed as reconstructed and you can't use the VIN number of your parts car and keep the production date of your car. If a VIN plate or sticker were damaged a replacement could be ordered through the dealer parts department but required factory approval and could not be altered from the original car. I am sure laws in different areas may vary, but changing #'s even if they are two different cars is not allowed. These stickers look like they would be hard to duplicate by anyone other than the factory. Maybe there's counterfeit money stashed in around the gas tank...
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1970 Opel GT Sunburst Yellow 1971 GT 1972 Opel GT Fireglow Orange
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#10 (permalink) | |
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Panel Beater
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Cowansville quebec
Posts: 195
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1970 Opel GT Sunburst Yellow 1971 GT 1972 Opel GT Fireglow Orange
Last edited by Johnvan; 05-26-2008 at 11:24 PM. Reason: just wanted to add |
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#11 (permalink) |
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Senior Contributor
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Leonard, Texas
Posts: 888
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verification 69-70 / 71-73 Body
You can verify if you have a body of a 69 or 70 GT or that of a 71 to 73 body.
Even though it may have fixed quarter windows which only came on the 69 and 70 model GT's it does not mean that it can't be a 71 to 73 model which only came with pop out quarter windows. Check for an indentation at the rear of the quarter window on the inside where the latch would be mounted for the pop out windows, if no indentation is present then you have a 69 or 70 body. Also the 69 and 70 GT had the "GM" logo on the rear deck and on the side of the front fenders the "OPEL" bar and "GT" letters. It sounds to me as if some one had a 69 GT swapped out the doors, instrument panel and installed fixed quarter windows. Not much uncommon from that, as I have a 70 GT with 72 doors, and dash panel, and installed pop out windows(but fabricated my own mount bracket for the latch), so not totally unheard of. I have a 68 Kadett with a GT front suspension and disk brakes with the GT master master cylinder and booster, a swapped out 1.1 Rallye rear end for the stock1.1 rear end and a 66 Kadett LS front grill.Parts are interchangeable on from one to the other. That is how we keep 'em running, its called "OPEL ENGINEERING".
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rk 68 Kadett 2 Dr 1.1 SR/Rallye Suspension 68 Kadett Rallye 1.9/4 Spd & AC 69 GT 1.9/4 Spd 70 GT 1.9/5 Spd,87 Impulse PB/MC/4 wheel 10.5" vented Disc/complete suspension/power assist & tilt wheel steering 71 Kadett 2 Dr 1.1/4 Spd/4 wheel drum brakes(project:to a 1.9 FI/Auto 75 Big Brakes/Impulse vented rr Disc, Factory AC from Buick/Opel by Isuzu 72 GT 1.9 FI/Auto 75 Big Brakes/Impulse vented rr Disc 73 Manta Rallye 75 Ascona 1.9 FI/5 Spd/Impulse rr Disc brakes OPEL WERKS |
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#12 (permalink) |
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6,000 Post Club
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Imperial Beach, CA South of San Diego
Posts: 6,054
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What you and others have done doing the switcho chango from one model and year to another is quite true, Rodney. But that doesn't explain the factory door sticker that has a 70 or 71 VIN with a 69 build date. Gotta be a one off.
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Ron 72 GT 3.4L V-6/T-5/ZF posi - almost done - Just need AC installed. ![]() 75 Chevy monza 5.7L/TH350/Auburn 3.08 posi - Next |
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#13 (permalink) |
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Panel Beater
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Cowansville quebec
Posts: 195
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I agree to check out the quarter windows and the body # when I get the car here from Montreal.There is a GM logo under the rear window and the Opel letters and red 1900 emblem on the back with nothing on the fenders.The car has 1971 wheels . There are rectangular lights on the instrument cluster fascia centre above the guages and woodgrain on the forward console.the engine # starts with 066... but is painted red and likely rebuilt.He has another engine with it that has the head removed but has high compression pistons and I couldn't get around stuff to read the #.
All parts can be switched including dash and cowl vin # plates. If the left 69 door was sitting there without the car and the sticker said 9/69 with a 77... serial # I would still be wondering what the hell? I think those stickers with dots would be hard to copy. I'm wondering if this is known to happen? My daughter Kayte goes to write her drivers test this week and she's eyeing House of Kolor and this car!
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1970 Opel GT Sunburst Yellow 1971 GT 1972 Opel GT Fireglow Orange
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#14 (permalink) |
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Opeler
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Kolor!
I wonder how many people have serial numbers that don't quite add up compared to others? Not so drastic as 69-71, but maybe a one year difference or odd in some way? Just out of curiosity.
P.S. House of Kolor has some pretty cool stuff... Any suggestions?![]() ( I know I'm getting off topic... )
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"I didn't do it" |
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#18 (permalink) |
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Über OpelGT.com Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 4,087
Real Name: Keith Wilford
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Resistance is futile, you WILL be assimilated (or at least overruled)
Every daughter's fathers nightmare Speaking from experience, three daughters and all...
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Keith Wilford working on my '71 GT and '75 SportWagon |
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#19 (permalink) |
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"The Jägermeister"
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Newnan, GA - greater ATL area
Posts: 1,515
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So Kayte is back and all of a sudden the topic completely changes
You have the power to turn the world around, even in die-hard Opel heaven. I love that! Welcome back Kayte, and drive carefully!Dieter
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One 2.0-16V Opel is not enough |
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#20 (permalink) |
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Opeler
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Grrrrrrr!
I didn't get my learner's permit! I even studied!!!!!!!!! They wouldn't accept my canadian-ontario birth registration. It has to be certified by the Ontario government to satisfy the NATION of Quebec.
I got my Quebec health insurance card, photo ID, etc. with this registration and can cross the US border with it but I can't get a learners permit in Quebec because it does not say CERTIFICATE so it MUST be a fake. You can't give these people any authority, they take it too seriously! Kayte
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"I didn't do it" |
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#21 (permalink) |
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Panel Beater
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Cowansville quebec
Posts: 195
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Only five days away until you get your certificate and you can test in two weeks. The world is a safer place for another couple weeks.
John
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1970 Opel GT Sunburst Yellow 1971 GT 1972 Opel GT Fireglow Orange
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#22 (permalink) |
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Über OpelGT.com Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 4,087
Real Name: Keith Wilford
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John, is Kayte your "middle child"? Only reason I ask is that I can almost hear OUR middle daughter Kelci's voice when Kayte, um, "sounds off". Somehow the "tone" gets a different feel when the world displeases her, much more so than daughters # 1 and 3.
Like today, when the scheduled bus from Kelci's new summer job "broke down" (the excuse provided by the next bus driver) and so she was an hour later on her way home. So she made sure that the bus driver was FULLY aware that she was not pleased and that she considered his response to be more likely a fabrication than the truth (or words, possibly en francais, to that effect, what with her favourite second language being less comprehended than even Cantonese here in Cowtown). And yes, she has her learners permit but not her full license, so perhaps this will motivate her to join the urban jam that describes Calgary traffic. Or more likely it will simply motivate her to run for municipal office on her way to being an Ambassador to the UN (International Relations being her major at University)
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Keith Wilford working on my '71 GT and '75 SportWagon |
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#23 (permalink) |
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Panel Beater
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Cowansville quebec
Posts: 195
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I have five kids! Two older from my first marriage a girl 29 and son 26 living in the outskirts of Toronto. Here I have three girls of which" Kayte" is just turned 16 and the other two are 14 year old identical twin girls. They are 15 months apart. Life is never boring! Your daughter Kelci sounds a lot like Kayte and the world is a better place with them in it! By the way.. Kayte says if anyone doesn't like what she said she'll write them back in French. John
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1970 Opel GT Sunburst Yellow 1971 GT 1972 Opel GT Fireglow Orange
Last edited by Johnvan; 05-30-2008 at 10:19 AM. |
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#24 (permalink) | |
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opel-istickly crazy
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Bremerton, Washington
Posts: 166
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im getting ready to swap 280zx suspension and rotors and ect to my 73 opel gt because ive sheared off 3 lug nuts and i have no clue how two on one wheel (drivers side) and one on the other ( front pass side) so we are just gonna put more burly ones in to replace and make it ezer if some thing like that happens next time
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That girl with the opel
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