71 VIN on a 69 GT?

[Johnvan]

I just bought a 1971 Opel serial number: 772349... with a build date of 09/69.
The serial number and build date are on the door sticker with dots and the serial # on the dash and cowl match the door serial #. The registration is for a 1971 Opel GT with the serial # matching the car, but the car in every way except for the wheels and color appears to be a 1969. It is code 411 gold with 69 doors, dash and no pop-out windows with 1900 emblem on the back. A very strange car. Anyone know if this is normal or has anyone heard of this happening and why? John

[tekenaar]

Originally Posted by Johnvan I just bought a 1971 Opel serial number: 772349... with a build date of 09/69. The serial number and build date are on the door sticker with dots and the serial # on the dash and cowl match the door serial #. The registration is for a 1971 Opel gt with the serial # matching the car, but the car in every way except for the wheels and color appears to be a 1969. It is code 411 gold with 69 doors, dash and no pop-out windows with 1900 emblem on the back. A very strange car. Anyone know if this is normal or has anyone heard of this happening and why? John

. . . the 77 Model number was first used for the 1971 GTs, '69 and '70 GTs used 93 for their 1.1 GTs and 94 for their 1.9 GTs . . . can't explain the other "identifiers" you listed, other than "it's an Opel!"

[trailblazer2727]

Sounds like you have a 69 that wasn't titled till 71. One that a dealer kept to run himself or a demonstrator. Title was listed the year when the car was 1st sold to an individual. The 77 vin is newer which may indicate a car rebuilt from both a 69 and 71.

[tekenaar]

Originally Posted by trailblazer2727 Sounds like you have a 69 that wasn't titled till 71. One that a dealer kept to run himself or a demonstrator. Title was listed the year when the car was 1st sold to an individual. The 77 vin is newer which may indicate a car rebuilt from both a 69 and 71.

Impossible at the factory! Very stringent laws with huge legal penalties and consequences against this in EVERY country and US state! They throw people in jail for messing with VIN numbers!

The "77" Model number designation alone correctly IDs it as a '71 GT, i.e. built after 9/70 . . . all the other indicators are most likely "after-the-fact" add-ons . . . simply, car had damaged driver door replaced by one from a '69, hence the build-date sticker.

[namba209]

That is a strange scenario. I just checked out Willit?'s door jam sticker to verify. My VIN is 7727..... with a build date of 01/72, so something in the milk ain't clean and I'm thinking that the cow is dirty too.

[Johnvan]

Originally Posted by tekenaar Impossible at the factory! Very stringent laws with huge legal penalties and consequences against this in EVERY country and US state! They throw people in jail for messing with VIN numbers! The "77" Model number designation alone correctly IDs it as a '71 GT, i.e. built after 9/70 . . . all the other indicators are most likely "after-the-fact" add-ons . . . simply, car had damaged driver door replaced by one from a '69, hence the build-date sticker.

I honestly have never seen anything like it! The driver's door has the door handle low as on a 69 as my 1970 has the handle higher and the sticker on the door is factory and undamaged with the 09/69 dotted on with the 77 VIN # which also matches the dash number and the cowl. None of them seem to be messed with at all! The car is not in great shape, but looks fairly original. This must have been the factory getting rid of old stock. It is just weird! I cannot understand a door sticker with a 71 serial # with a 09/69 production date. I was suspicious, but everything matched! The factory puts on the stickers, not the dealers. I am wondering if anybody has heard of something like this before. I can't see how it was tampered. Are there counterfeit door stickers?

[trailblazer2727]

I agree with you that a 2 car reconstruct at the factory level wouldn't have happened. But at a dealers or body shop at the time these cars were built, quite possible. That is why disclosure laws were enacted. It wasn't uncommon to take a car totaled in the front and one totaled in the rear and combine them, still isn't. Upfront dealers either got reconstructed titles or told the buyer what they were getting, others usually used the newest title since it would be worth more. I helped to wash out and repair several under water flood cars in 72 when I worked at a body shop. They all had good titles and were sent to auction with no guarantee. The dealers had collected the flood insurance and then sold them. They were supposed to be sold for scrap, but no one checked how the dealers disposed of them.

[Johnvan]

That still doesn't explain how a factory sticker was put back on a car with a different production date. Back in the 70's I too repaired wrecks, and generally they were not listed as reconstructed and you can't use the VIN number of your parts car and keep the production date of your car. If a VIN plate or sticker were damaged a replacement could be ordered through the dealer parts department but required factory approval and could not be altered from the original car. I am sure laws in different areas may vary, but changing #'s even if they are two different cars is not allowed. These stickers look like they would be hard to duplicate by anyone other than the factory. Maybe there's counterfeit money stashed in around the gas tank...

[wrench459]

Opel GT-Fahrgestellnummern
check the numbers here maybe.
My 69 and 70 GT's start with 94.

[Johnvan]

Originally Posted by wrench459 Opel GT-Fahrgestellnummern check the numbers here maybe. My 69 and 70 GT's start with 94.

I have a 70 gt with a VIN # 94207... and a production date of 01/70. I still don't understand how a 09/69 production date has a serial # 77234... It would make the 71 older than the 70. I have never seen a 71 without pop-out windows etc. I looked on the site you mentioned but couldn't figure it out. I think it is probably old stock labelled a 71 with some changes. I am just wondering if anyone has ever seen this before or can explain it. In the past I had a 1971 in 1972 which had a high compression engine and a rubber steering wheel, which is like a mid-70, but don't remember the numbers. Thanks, John

[Killer Texas GT]

You can verify if you have a body of a 69 or 70 GT or that of a 71 to 73 body.
Even though it may have fixed quarter windows which only came on the 69 and 70 model GT's it does not mean that it can't be a 71 to 73 model which only came with pop out quarter windows. Check for an indentation at the rear of the quarter window on the inside where the latch would be mounted for the pop out windows, if no indentation is present then you have a 69 or 70 body. Also the 69 and 70 GT had the "GM" logo on the rear deck and on the side of the front fenders the "OPEL" bar and "GT" letters. It sounds to me as if some one had a 69 GT swapped out the doors, instrument panel and installed fixed quarter windows.
Not much uncommon from that, as I have a 70 GT with 72 doors, and dash panel, and installed pop out windows(but fabricated my own mount bracket for the latch), so not totally unheard of. I have a 68 Kadett with a GT front suspension and disk brakes with the GT master master cylinder and booster, a swapped out 1.1 Rallye rear end for the stock1.1 rear end and a 66 Kadett LS front grill.Parts are interchangeable on from one to the other. That is how we keep 'em running, its called "OPEL ENGINEERING".

[namba209]

What you and others have done doing the switcho chango from one model and year to another is quite true, Rodney. But that doesn't explain the factory door sticker that has a 70 or 71 VIN with a 69 build date. Gotta be a one off.

[Johnvan]

I agree to check out the quarter windows and the body # when I get the car here from Montreal.There is a GM logo under the rear window and the Opel letters and red 1900 emblem on the back with nothing on the fenders.The car has 1971 wheels . There are rectangular lights on the instrument cluster fascia centre above the guages and woodgrain on the forward console.the engine # starts with 066... but is painted red and likely rebuilt.He has another engine with it that has the head removed but has high compression pistons and I couldn't get around stuff to read the #.
All parts can be switched including dash and cowl vin # plates.
If the left 69 door was sitting there without the car and the sticker said 9/69 with a 77... serial # I would still be wondering what the hell? I think those stickers with dots would be hard to copy. I'm wondering if this is known to happen?
My daughter Kayte goes to write her drivers test this week and she's eyeing House of Kolor and this car!

[Kayte]

I wonder how many people have serial numbers that don't quite add up compared to others? Not so drastic as 69-71, but maybe a one year difference or odd in some way? Just out of curiosity.

P.S.
House of Kolor has some pretty cool stuff... Any suggestions?
( I know I'm getting off topic...)

[kwilford]

Originally Posted by Kayte ( I know I'm getting off topic...)

Wow, qu'elle surprise Welcome back Kayte, we missed you

[Johnvan]

She's working on me!

[Kayte]

Glad to know I'm missed! One week left of school and a driver's permit tomorrow.....

[kwilford]

Originally Posted by Johnvan She's working on me!

Resistance is futile, you WILL be assimilated (or at least overruled)

Originally Posted by Kayte One week left of school and a driver's permit tomorrow.....

Every daughter's fathers nightmare Speaking from experience, three daughters and all...

[heimue]

So Kayte is back and all of a sudden the topic completely changes You have the power to turn the world around, even in die-hard Opel heaven. I love that! Welcome back Kayte, and drive carefully!

Dieter

[Kayte]

I didn't get my learner's permit! I even studied!!!!!!!!! They wouldn't accept my canadian-ontario birth registration. It has to be certified by the Ontario government to satisfy the NATION of Quebec. I got my Quebec health insurance card, photo ID, etc. with this registration and can cross the US border with it but I can't get a learners permit in Quebec because it does not say CERTIFICATE so it MUST be a fake. You can't give these people any authority, they take it too seriously! Kayte

[Johnvan]

Only five days away until you get your certificate and you can test in two weeks. The world is a safer place for another couple weeks. John