front end lift

pvcar · 10-12-2003

well i was talking to one of my dads friends the other day and he was telling me about how his professor in college an germany had a yellow GT like mine and how his professor loved the car, but one day when he was driving around some winding curves at high speeds the car got so much front end lift that it just flipped upside down. totaled the car but the professor survived just wondering if anyone in the states here has ever had this happen to them in there gt???? and now it is making me think of getting a front spoiler from gt source also....

greensmurf20 · 10-12-2003

maybe this is just my opinion, but i dont think a GT would even go fast enough to flip backwards because of front end lift, let alone most any other car in the world. i dont think its anything to worry about

RallyBob · 10-12-2003

Sounds like total BS.....

Probably an excuse for poor driving ability. The front end may get light, but even if you were traveling at 110 mph on a windy back road, the lift would reduce front end traction and the car would understeer badly enough to keep you from navigating the corner. This would end up in a bad crash for sure, but the car wouldn't flip backwards at those speeds unless something was struck to launch the front end into the air first.

baz · 10-12-2003

only cars i've ever seen suffer from blowover are very high speed drag racers and then only top fuelers and funny cars so not a prob in a straght line, light yes
on a curve then its more like a roll when you get more body roll than grip and to get a gt to that point you have to be doing some very hard corneringwith very wide tires to generate high G-load as on normal tires the car will wash out first unless you are using the handbrake to get the rear to slide
read the thread http://www.opelgt.com/forums/showthr...&threadid=2167
theres a lot about it there

Old Hippie · 10-12-2003

Hmmm.....I seem to remember that the front axle weight load is around 1900lbs(?). Seems to me to be a might heavy for a 100+ mph wind. Hurricanes and twisters can do that, but of course the volume of air involved is quite a bit different. Just my 2 pennies worth on that.

jordan · 10-13-2003

I know cigarette boats like flipping backwards and of coarse top fuel dragsters (even pump gas dragsters if the front end can leave the ground) I bet my title that that would never happen to a gt 1.9

N61WP · 10-13-2003

My last "toy" car, before I bought the GT was a Sebring MX... a fiberglass Austin Healey replica. It had the large fender flares and 350+ HP of warmed up SB Chevy. I got the car up past 80 just one time on an on ramp. The front end got light and the car "flew" towards the side of the road. I had zero control...but it was not skidding. Luckily, right before the paved shoulder ended the right front tire (255-50-16 sticky rubber) grabbed. If not, I was in the trees for sure.

Looking at the front end, it had a large grill, and those wide flares. I guess they became wings at speed! I never got that car above 80 again, but it was fun getting there, 0-60 was 4.9 sec.
Jc

GT-Freak · 10-13-2003

I had a Vega that would lift the nose at 85-90 mph. Lift being take weight off the front tires, not a wheelie or take the tires totally off the ground. The car goes straight, not flip. There's virtually no steering response just like glare ice. Of course, it takes a big hill on the Interstate to get a Vega going that fast, which worsens the wind under the nose. Worst case is loss of control.

By the numbers. Guessing effective lift area = 25 sf. Nose weight = 1100 lb. Lift coef. (CL) = 1.0. Required dynamic pressure = 44 psf. That'd be over 130 mph. And that's just enough to lift the tires with a liberal CL. You'd need to go faster to flip.

The bigger problem is GT's tend to lift the back end first. So you'd loose traction before lifting the nose. Which means no power to the drive tires. (Very bad for land speed records.)

lowkey · 10-20-2003

Not Likely, more like "my friend in high school pegged his speedometer on a stock gt."

Stock GT's will get loose at higher speeds, but on the back end more than the front. If you have stock size tires, at stock ride height, then the front end is good to 110, no problem.

The only GT I took above that had been lowered two inches, had sixtys on it, and had a one inch rake, to the front. On a clear, hot sunny day, it would do 130, and the faster you went, the more the front end grabbed, going in a straight line, no problems.

But anytime it was wet, or cold, and wet, above 65, you were subject to spin out without warning going straight. It was scary.

I would put it in the "Urban Myth," category.

James

kmon · 10-20-2003

Ha, filliped it in the twisties...thats pretty amazing

As for front end lift on the gt, ive experianced the front end getting 'light'. Since I live in wyoming their is always a steady wind avalible. Ive been out on back roads doing close to 100 when a strong headwind gust hits the gt (60mph+). I havent lifted the front tires off the ground or anything that crazy...but it is a noticible change in the handeling. Maybe on one of bob's LSR runs this might be a problem

RallyBob · 10-20-2003

Originally posted by kmon
Maybe on one of bob's LSR runs this might be a problem

Yup, that's why I'm gonna lower it 'into the weeds' for the LSR attempt, and with a considerable rake. My dilemna is finding front tires that are short enough, but also narrow and speed rated. I don't want to compromise all the front suspension travel to get it that low. If I could find a 175/50-VR13 (good luck these days!), then that would be perfect. There are 175/60-HR13's, but the speed rating is only to 130 mph. Will probably run a 195/60-VR14 out back, don't want too much tire width, as this increases drag appreciably. Still in the planning stages, but I think I have all the driveline, engine, and suspension figured out. Even ordered a new roller cam for the engine already....I see 10,000 rpms as a reality.

Bob

kmon · 10-20-2003

Bob, a quick google search pulled this up:

http://www.minisport.com/Wheel&TyrePackages.html

Not sure on their speed rating. Hope this helps.... I cant wait to see this thing run *drool*

RallyBob · 10-20-2003

Gets expensive to ship tires (oops, that's tyres) from the UK. Definitely would have to know the speed rating however. I'll keep looking, and worst-case scenario is I will run road-racing slicks and hand-groove them so I have some sort of traction on the dirt. Gotta get me a new S.C.T.A. rulebook anyway, the one I have is three years old.

Bob

baz · 10-20-2003

bob those ti(y)res are 10" and 12" diam for original mini's

kmon · 10-20-2003

Baz, that site has....175/50 R13's. This suggests that either this company is sitting on a pile on discontiuned tires or Yokohama, Bridgestonem, and Pirelli are still making them. I would give the companies a call, might be less work then making your own tread on a tire....and as you mentioned Bob, not sure on the legality of 'custom tires' for your class.

namba209 · 10-21-2003

After reading all the posts about the front end lifting, I had to put in my 2 cents worth. On a flat out 3 1/2 mile straight run, the front end got heavier feeling, the faster I went, even kinda rock solid. For the twisty turnys, after I replaced all the shocks, on a trip from inSANe DIEGO to El Centro, there is a 6% down grade 17 miles long. I went as fast as I felt comfortable, staying in one lane and not drifting across the lanes. It felt like I was driving a slot car. 5 miles beyond the bottom of the hill, I was pulled over by the CHP driving a, then, new 5.0 Pursuit Mustang. He was not pleased that, while driving 110 MPH, he could not catch me. His main concern was "How fast will this little ba$tard go?", after seeing a box stock 1.9 L engine. When I told him it would read all the numbers on the speedo and tach, he gave me his card and told me to call him when I headed back to San Diego to see just how fast this little ba$tard will go. He also gave me a ticket for doing 76 in a 65 zone. I called for him prior to leaving El Centro, but he was working an accident towards Yuma. The ticket was $46 worth of fun. I was riding on 175R70T X 13 86T Winston tires at the time, with a speed rating of 120MPH.

Ron

baz · 10-22-2003

hi kmon
getting 13 " tyres here in uk is not a problem as we still have lots of cars with these size tyres
its only last 8 years or so that the sizes have started to go up

10-12-2003	#1 (permalink)
pvcar 4ZUA787 Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Rancho Palos Verdes CA,USA Posts: 668 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	front end lift well i was talking to one of my dads friends the other day and he was telling me about how his professor in college an germany had a yellow GT like mine and how his professor loved the car, but one day when he was driving around some winding curves at high speeds the car got so much front end lift that it just flipped upside down. totaled the car but the professor survived just wondering if anyone in the states here has ever had this happen to them in there gt???? and now it is making me think of getting a front spoiler from gt source also....

10-12-2003	#4 (permalink)
baz opel free after 25 years Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: sunderland england Posts: 4,711 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	only cars i've ever seen suffer from blowover are very high speed drag racers and then only top fuelers and funny cars so not a prob in a straght line, light yes on a curve then its more like a roll when you get more body roll than grip and to get a gt to that point you have to be doing some very hard corneringwith very wide tires to generate high G-load as on normal tires the car will wash out first unless you are using the handbrake to get the rear to slide read the thread http://www.opelgt.com/forums/showthr...&threadid=2167 theres a lot about it there Last edited by baz; 10-12-2003 at 06:19 PM..

10-20-2003	#9 (permalink)
lowkey Opeler Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Austin Posts: 10 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	Not Likely Not Likely, more like "my friend in high school pegged his speedometer on a stock gt." Stock GT's will get loose at higher speeds, but on the back end more than the front. If you have stock size tires, at stock ride height, then the front end is good to 110, no problem. The only GT I took above that had been lowered two inches, had sixtys on it, and had a one inch rake, to the front. On a clear, hot sunny day, it would do 130, and the faster you went, the more the front end grabbed, going in a straight line, no problems. But anytime it was wet, or cold, and wet, above 65, you were subject to spin out without warning going straight. It was scary. I would put it in the "Urban Myth," category. James

10-20-2003	#10 (permalink)
kmon Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Laramie, WY Posts: 137 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	wyoming :D Ha, filliped it in the twisties...thats pretty amazing As for front end lift on the gt, ive experianced the front end getting 'light'. Since I live in wyoming their is always a steady wind avalible. Ive been out on back roads doing close to 100 when a strong headwind gust hits the gt (60mph+). I havent lifted the front tires off the ground or anything that crazy...but it is a noticible change in the handeling. Maybe on one of bob's LSR runs this might be a problem

10-20-2003	#12 (permalink)
kmon Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Laramie, WY Posts: 137 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	lsr Bob, a quick google search pulled this up: http://www.minisport.com/Wheel&TyrePackages.html Not sure on their speed rating. Hope this helps.... I cant wait to see this thing run drool

10-12-2003	#2 (permalink)
greensmurf20 OPEL-LESS!!! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Gobles michigan 49055 Posts: 2,110 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	maybe this is just my opinion, but i dont think a GT would even go fast enough to flip backwards because of front end lift, let alone most any other car in the world. i dont think its anything to worry about

10-12-2003	#3 (permalink)
RallyBob Project 1450 supporter... Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Pleasant Valley, CT Posts: 6,656 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	Sounds like total BS..... Probably an excuse for poor driving ability. The front end may get light, but even if you were traveling at 110 mph on a windy back road, the lift would reduce front end traction and the car would understeer badly enough to keep you from navigating the corner. This would end up in a bad crash for sure, but the car wouldn't flip backwards at those speeds unless something was struck to launch the front end into the air first.

10-12-2003	#5 (permalink)
Old Hippie Senior Contributor Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Paxico, Ks. Posts: 787 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	Hmmm.....I seem to remember that the front axle weight load is around 1900lbs(?). Seems to me to be a might heavy for a 100+ mph wind. Hurricanes and twisters can do that, but of course the volume of air involved is quite a bit different. Just my 2 pennies worth on that.

10-13-2003	#6 (permalink)
jordan Moderator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: corning ny 14830 Posts: 2,123 Classified Rating: 100% (1)	I know cigarette boats like flipping backwards and of coarse top fuel dragsters (even pump gas dragsters if the front end can leave the ground) I bet my title that that would never happen to a gt 1.9

10-13-2003	#7 (permalink)
N61WP Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: New Orleans, La Posts: 533 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	My last "toy" car, before I bought the GT was a Sebring MX... a fiberglass Austin Healey replica. It had the large fender flares and 350+ HP of warmed up SB Chevy. I got the car up past 80 just one time on an on ramp. The front end got light and the car "flew" towards the side of the road. I had zero control...but it was not skidding. Luckily, right before the paved shoulder ended the right front tire (255-50-16 sticky rubber) grabbed. If not, I was in the trees for sure. Looking at the front end, it had a large grill, and those wide flares. I guess they became wings at speed! I never got that car above 80 again, but it was fun getting there, 0-60 was 4.9 sec. Jc

10-13-2003	#8 (permalink)
GT-Freak Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 174 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	I had a Vega that would lift the nose at 85-90 mph. Lift being take weight off the front tires, not a wheelie or take the tires totally off the ground. The car goes straight, not flip. There's virtually no steering response just like glare ice. Of course, it takes a big hill on the Interstate to get a Vega going that fast, which worsens the wind under the nose. Worst case is loss of control. By the numbers. Guessing effective lift area = 25 sf. Nose weight = 1100 lb. Lift coef. (CL) = 1.0. Required dynamic pressure = 44 psf. That'd be over 130 mph. And that's just enough to lift the tires with a liberal CL. You'd need to go faster to flip. The bigger problem is GT's tend to lift the back end first. So you'd loose traction before lifting the nose. Which means no power to the drive tires. (Very bad for land speed records.)

10-20-2003	#13 (permalink)
RallyBob Project 1450 supporter... Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Pleasant Valley, CT Posts: 6,656 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	Gets expensive to ship tires (oops, that's tyres) from the UK. Definitely would have to know the speed rating however. I'll keep looking, and worst-case scenario is I will run road-racing slicks and hand-groove them so I have some sort of traction on the dirt. Gotta get me a new S.C.T.A. rulebook anyway, the one I have is three years old. Bob

10-20-2003	#14 (permalink)
baz opel free after 25 years Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: sunderland england Posts: 4,711 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	bob those ti(y)res are 10" and 12" diam for original mini's

10-20-2003	#15 (permalink)
kmon Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Laramie, WY Posts: 137 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	Baz, that site has....175/50 R13's. This suggests that either this company is sitting on a pile on discontiuned tires or Yokohama, Bridgestonem, and Pirelli are still making them. I would give the companies a call, might be less work then making your own tread on a tire....and as you mentioned Bob, not sure on the legality of 'custom tires' for your class.

10-21-2003	#16 (permalink)
namba209 6,000 Post Club Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Imperial Beach, CA South of San Diego Posts: 6,033 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	After reading all the posts about the front end lifting, I had to put in my 2 cents worth. On a flat out 3 1/2 mile straight run, the front end got heavier feeling, the faster I went, even kinda rock solid. For the twisty turnys, after I replaced all the shocks, on a trip from inSANe DIEGO to El Centro, there is a 6% down grade 17 miles long. I went as fast as I felt comfortable, staying in one lane and not drifting across the lanes. It felt like I was driving a slot car. 5 miles beyond the bottom of the hill, I was pulled over by the CHP driving a, then, new 5.0 Pursuit Mustang. He was not pleased that, while driving 110 MPH, he could not catch me. His main concern was "How fast will this little ba$tard go?", after seeing a box stock 1.9 L engine. When I told him it would read all the numbers on the speedo and tach, he gave me his card and told me to call him when I headed back to San Diego to see just how fast this little ba$tard will go. He also gave me a ticket for doing 76 in a 65 zone. I called for him prior to leaving El Centro, but he was working an accident towards Yuma. The ticket was $46 worth of fun. I was riding on 175R70T X 13 86T Winston tires at the time, with a speed rating of 120MPH. Ron

10-22-2003	#17 (permalink)
baz opel free after 25 years Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: sunderland england Posts: 4,711 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	hi kmon getting 13 " tyres here in uk is not a problem as we still have lots of cars with these size tyres its only last 8 years or so that the sizes have started to go up

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