Price for a GT? (Flipper's Opel)

[dmillett]

I am not sure if this is the correct place to post these questions but anyway here they are. I have talked to Shawn on the phone and I am very interested in buying his 1972 GT. One question I have is what do you think of the car and price? The other question, I live in Nova Scotia Canada, what would you have for advice on how to get it to Nova Scotia.
Thank You in advance for any help you can give me.
Dwight

[opeldean]

get a towing insurance policy
such as triple a (AAA)

fly to springfield and drive it home..maybe not the best way..but it sounds fun...any car 33 years old is an antique..his car is solid and is driven so you have an excellent chance of making it home.

[flipper]

Thanks Dean for the "thumbs up". Come on everyone, dont be afraid of hurting my feelings, give this man the truth on opels and mine in particular.You will not hurt my feelings on this one. He just wants to know from the world opel experts (we know they are on this site) what people think of this deal. Once again, let it all hang out, honesty is very important to ensure happy opeling!

[nobody]

As far as Opel prices are concerned it's the absolutely stock that get the highest prices. Unless the buyer is dead set on that shade you chose for paint or any other well meant change that was done, any modification from stock lowers the price. The exception is that buyer that has to have an Aero, Gullwing or any other extensive body style change. I'm not knocking the car it looks great, I'm just saying that for that price your buying somebody else's idea of what it should be. To command top dollar there should be nothing unfinished, especially hard to do items like big sway bars.

[kwilford]

Originally Posted by dmillett The other question, I live in Nova Scotia Canada, what would you have for advice on how to get it to Nova Scotia.

Make sure you read up on Canada Customs for rules on importing older cars. I have a '75 SportWagon, which was one of four Opels (two Kadetts and a Manta) that Kat imported into Canada from the States. As I recall, it wasn't a big deal so long as the car had a valid title, but the SportWagon had a "salvage" title which complicated things. Also, you have to "export" the car from the USA BEFORE you "import" it into Canada, so make sure you contact US Customs before you take it across the border. If you want to contact Kat for importing advice (Kathryn McCoy, formerly of Leduc Alberta, aka the "Crazy Opel Lady of Leduc; now residing in Washington State near Salem), she still has her GT and participates on the classicopels board on yahoo! I can get you her e-mail address if you want to contact her directly, just PM me.

As for driving versus shipping, half the fun is getting it and meeting the former owner. But if you are unsure of the car's reliability (or your ability to fix it on the road), at least go down, meet Flipper, and load it yourself onto the truck.

HTH

[kwilford]

Originally Posted by dmillett One question I have is what do you think of the car and price?

Well, it is certainly one of the prettier GT's I have seen in a while. Nice paint job! That said, $7000 USD (over $8500 CAD) is one the higher prices I have seen as well. Not the highest, honours for which go to that virtually NOS GT from NYC with only 15k miles for $15,000 USD. A truly "perfect" GT (but less that the aforementioned NOS car) car might be worth up to $10,000 USD. But that would be a California car with virtually no rust, with all the "stuff" Shawn's GT has and more, with NOTHING that needs fixing. Oh, and low mileage to boot, which isn't mentioned in the ad. While mileage of a virtually rebuilt car is a bit moot, there is always something not replaced. A car with 75,000 original miles will have less wear on the suspension/drive train/seat mechanicals/steering components (even the column U-joints)/door and hood hinges/ etc etc than even a very thoroughly restored 150,000 mile car.

It's a bit hard to determine a price from three photos. You REALLY need to see the car in person. Period. Photos are almost always better than reality. Or at LEAST have an impartial third party inspect the car and provide his comments and additional photos.

Observations? Aside from what Shawn has already mentioned (rear sway bar needs to be installed, speedo and clock not working, driver rear marker broken?), I can see a few other details that might lower the price from the "perfect" GT. The steering wheel is badly cracked. It is a '72, so presumably it still has the low compression pistons. Has the engine been rebuilt, and if so, when, by whom, and what was done? (a new timing chain, new lifters and cam, new rings and bearings, ground crank, line bored mains and resized rods, rebuilt distributor, and such, are the mark of a true rebuild. Anything less is a "freshening"). The dash has been recovered, but not by JustDashes (as evidenced by the wrinkles in the glove box area). The outside mirrors are not a very good choice. Where is the chrome around the side windows? The engine compartment hasn't been properly painted to match the exterior, although I am being VERY picky there! The BIGGEST question is what is the state of corrosion under that beautiful paint. I know the car was recently stripped and repainted, but I don't recall where the car lived (if other than MO) and if the frame rails/jack points/inner panels are as pristine as the outer panels. Does it have the original tail trim piece? More deficiencies might be revealed by a first person inspection. Or it might be better than you can see in the photos.

Price is a VERY subjective thing. Could you buy a "decent" GT for $3500 and "restore" and upgrade it to the condition of Shawn's GT for $3500? Probably not, even if your labour was free, and you could do all the required work yourself. And it would take you MONTHS (maybe years!) and there is a better than even chance that you would NEVER finish it. So if you want a very nice GT "off the shelf", go have a look at it, with the intent to buy, but make SURE that you see it for the car it is, and NOT as a shiny red sports car with great paint.

JM2CW

[flipper]

Excellent straight up response, very thought out. I am actually going to look at the car I am replaceing the opel with in a new light. thanks kwilford, That was truly an excellent response .

[GTJIM]

From memory, Charles Goin has estimated the for each three dollars "invested" in a GT you can expect one back when it is sold and labour "invested" in the car is worth exactly nothing upon sale ........

The body/paint job on my GT was extensive, and expensive but it still has 'issues' that detract from the completed job. As it was the actual price paid was about 50% LESS than the cost of actual "shop time" on a dollars per hour basis due to a fixed price contract and the professionalism of the bodyshop. They now do all restoration work on a straight "per hour cost" basis and do not give any more fixed price contracts. All that because we could not "see" what was underneath a superbly 'bodged up' old paint job!

The moral of the story is that to get the value out of your investment in a GT - keep it and enjoy it!

[nobody]

Jim and Charles are right, you can never get what you put into a GT back out by selling it. I have around 12 in mine but as a car that will rock your world and looks great it's selling price is probably around 5. In parts I could get more but that would mean me taking it apart. If a buyer wants the same things and colors that's most of the battle of selling a car. By the way, the 12 is just parts or machine work, all told if I had farmed it all out it would be in the mid 20s. I think that the 1/3 estimate is closer to 1/4 for return on sales after a rebuild.

[rudby]

Hi Dwight

I Imported a 71 GT from Indiana this summer and it was a easy.

You Will Need a valid clear title and a sales receipt at the USA export customs
point that you are using to import the car to Canada 72 hours before you
arrive with the car, plus three copies. A salvage or parts title will work but it will be hard to get it registered in Canada. In Ontario they said impossible.

When you hit Canada customs they will ask for the title and sales recept
to verify it matches on the car. Then you pay GST and customs gives you
paper work to register the car in your provence when you get home.
Here is the USA customs URL:
http://www.customs.ustreas.gov/xp/cg...or_vehicle.xml

I was lucky the guy I bought from UPS'ed the paper work to me after he got paid and I UPS'ed it to the USA customs. Call them to make sure you have the right person and address.

I drove down with a trailer to pick it up and it was easy no brake downs.

As for price cars,bikes and boats are a hobby. if you are happy with it whats cost!

Rob

[opeldean]

Originally Posted by nobody Jim and Charles are right, you can never get what you put into a GT back out by selling it.

1- what car can you get out of what you put into it?

2- the way i look at it, if you drive shawns gt on nice days and say put 10,000 miles on it...that's a value of about $3,000...30 centsa mile..you got to drive something..(this would not apply if you walk or ride a bike).therefore 2 year costs make his gt cost an actual $4,000 american

3- a non driver ,waiting to be restored costs you more, as you will be driving the primary car at 30 cents a mile..so that same mileage will cost you 3,000 american on the car you drive

4- if you drive shawns car 5,ooo miles a year for 6 years..thats 30,000 miles at a value of 10,000 dollars (12,000 canadian and a few labatts)..therefore in 2011 you will have made 3,000 dollars and have the car as an asset that could be resold..putting additonal funds in your pocket...so there you go

5- if you are going to drive the car, "parts is parts" ..they cost you 100% out of your pocket. labor is not free,even if it is your own..you could be working for a income verses working on your car.

6- for $7,000 buy an asian car..how about a rx7 convertible..1991..low miles...i like the car. come buy and pick me up. but rarity has value too...like the diference in price for a 1/4 bolt and a 6mm..if you buy that asian car dont be asking me for chopsticks when you come over for dinner.you can even wear your shoes in my house...in fact //please leave your shoes on


7- ship the gt to germany and see what she worth in euros

8- this is a west german gt..west germany doesnt even exist,car hasnt been made in 30 years,but car has the support of a 5,000 member website..WILL the rx7 EVER have that?

9-ps: Are we drinking Saporo in Carlisle this year and someone didnt tell me.

i meant this post in good humor .

enjoy the superbowl.. i am for the underdog..

[jeff denton]

I agree with Jim and Charles, but there are some cars that can be sold for more than you have into them, but a GT just isn't one of them.
I get somewhat involved in lots of people's hot rod projects and I always advise them to be sure this is what they want to do. It better be what they really want, and they have to be able to justify it.
I doubt that many people would buy a nice one to be a daily driver, it's just too rough on the car, too expensive to maintain. So it's a toy. Face it! My ski boat costs me more to store it than to operate it a few times a season. It's a toy. It's not even worth it any more, but then I couldn't get but a few thousand dollars for it although there isn't a thing wrong with it! If I only use it twenty times in the next twenty years I think I can still justify it. It's nice just to HAVE IT. Like the pristine GT. Hope that helps.

[nobody]

The GT is not a car to buy, fix up and make a profit on selling it, unless you buy one cheap and can put it back to showroom stock with little funds. I have one here that as soon as I cut it for the twins depriciated on a large scale. The simple truth is that a GT is worth more in parts right now than as a car. I can't say I agree with it but that is just how it is.

[jeff denton]

Isn't ANY car worth more in parts than whole?
Well, maybe not some really exotic ones. There was a show on tv last week about the most valuable cars known. One was Carroll Shelby's prototype handbuilt AC cobra, he said he has turned down ten million dollars for it.
A Hemi Cuda convertible was shown, supposed value three million. It was the only factory production Hemi Cuda convertible...
Then came a Ferrari Alonzo(?sp) that you can't buy new, they have to offer it to you!
The 70 SS Chevelle I had when I was 17 is worth 20 grand easy these days...
How is one to know just what new car to invest in today?

[dmillett]

Thanks a lot for the great replies. They were not only informational to me but also to Shawn when he was looking at the car he was buying. A week ago yesterday I found Flipper's Opel on this form, and now I own it. Not sure how I am going to get it home, only 2500 miles, give or take a few hundred. One thing I have going for me is Shawn, he has been great. I will keep you up to date on how things are going if you like.