Kadett 1.1 Options????

[opelspyder]

I have a question I may already have an answer for, but then again I still need to get more info from the car. A 1969 Kadett fastback body style---not sure yet if model 92 (rallye) or 95 (Super Deluxe); the car has a dual carb setup. I saw on the Kadett catalog that the 95 would have a single carb for the 1.1, but the options show you can get the 1.1SR with dual carb for all models. Was it common for people to get this option, or would the car be a rallye only? Just wondering as far as how much rarer it was to see the dual carb ordered as an option on these cars.
Keith

[hrcollinsjr]

Keith,

I don't know for sure, I'll have to look it up but.... There were three different versions; low CR 1.1 w/1bbl, higher CR w/1bbl. and even higher CR w/2 1bbl. carbs. The CR was something like 7.?, 8.? and 9.? IIRC.

Harold

[tekenaar]

Originally Posted by hrcollinsjr Keith, I don't know for sure, I'll have to look it up but.... There were three different versions; low CR 1.1 w/1bbl, higher CR w/1bbl. and even higher CR w/2 1bbl. carbs. The CR was something like 7.?, 8.? and 9.? IIRC. Harold

. . . a little help!

[hrcollinsjr]

Originally Posted by tekenaar . . . a little help!

Thanks, Otto. So there were actually 4 variations.

Harold

[tekenaar]

Originally Posted by hrcollinsjr Thanks, Otto. So there were actually 4 variations. Harold

. . . uh, from the 1969 chart, actually only two: 11S - 8.2CR, single one-barrel Solex, 11SR - 9.2CR, dual one-barrel Solexes . . . oh, and to answer part of the original question, just opting for the 11SR engine, does NOT automatically make it a "Rallye"! Lots of other items - badges, fog lights (distance lights), 'wood' steering wheel, "GT-style" washer foot pump with wiper switch, tach, Rallye gauge set, Rallye wheels, flat black hood - are required for a true "Rallye".

[hrcollinsjr]

Originally Posted by tekenaar . . . uh, from the 1969 chart, actually only two: 11S - 8.2CR, single one-barrel Solex, 11SR - 9.2CR, dual one-barrel Solexes . . . oh, and to answer part of the original question, just opting for the 11SR engine, does NOT automatically make it a "Rallye"! Lots of other items - badges, fog lights (distance lights), 'wood' steering wheel, "GT-style" washer foot pump with wiper switch, flat black hood - are required for a true "Rallye".

Correct for Keith's question but I also looked at the '67 for the four variations.

Harold

[tekenaar]

Originally Posted by tekenaar . . . uh, from the 1969 chart, actually only two: 11S - 8.2CR, single one-barrel Solex, 11SR - 9.2CR, dual one-barrel Solexes . . . oh, and to answer part of the original question, just opting for the 11SR engine, does NOT automatically make it a "Rallye"! Lots of other items - badges, fog lights (distance lights), 'wood' steering wheel, "GT-style" washer foot pump with wiper switch, flat black hood - are required for a true "Rallye". Originally Posted by hrcollinsjr Correct for Keith's question but I also looked at the '67 for the four variations. Harold

Whoops . . . should've looked at my engine chart, which has three 1.1 engines listed for 1969: 11S - 8.2CR, single one-barrel Solex, 11R - 8.2CR, dual one-barrel Solexes, and 11SR - 9.2CR, dual one-barrel Solexes!

Single one-barrel Solex, 7.8CR (11) and 8.8CR (11S) engines were only offered in '66 and '67 Kadetts, from '68 on, all 1.1 engines had either 8.2CR (11/11S, 11R) or 9.2CR (11SR), the 11SR engines being offered only in the Rallye and GT models . . .

Looks like I'll have to update my Model/Drivetrain chart . . .

[opelspyder]

Actually according to the Kadett brochure it states that all Kadetts in 1969 could be optioned with the 1.1SR with 2 - 1bl carbs. Here is the stats on this car. It is a 1969 Kadett LS says model 92, which my parts manual states it could have that model number as well. It is a 1.1SR with dual solex carbs, but what really makes it unique is it is an Automatic. It was special ordered for the auto option, the SR motor, and a vinyl top. They also put fog lights on it, but they were never wired up.

So my next question is what automatic did they use with the 1.1???????
Sounds like this is quite a rare combination, but I had heard that a 1.1 could have an automatic tranny. Did they use the 3-spd???? I am waiting to get pictures of this car, but it really sounds like a diamond in the rough, as it has real low miles and has been garaged.


What do you think Otto???


Keith

[GTJIM]

The 'little' Opels are going to become very popular as gas prices keep rising - though how economical a 1.1L motor with an auto trans will be is questionable!

A similar TH180 trans was used with a different bellhousing (they unbolt from the trans body) and probably different internal set-up to suit it to a smaller motor.

Sounds like that Kadett 2 Door Coupe' - Super Deluxe is well worth owning. The differences between it and a Kadett GM Rallye Coupe' are basically the Rallye paint work, long-range ("Rallye") driving lights [which this one has!] and the Tachometer and gauge package plus no hubcaps with chromed acorn nuts.

Grab it quick! Then post some good pictures for us 1.1SR Kadett fans ....

[tekenaar]

Originally Posted by opelspyder Actually according to the Kadett brochure it states that all Kadetts in 1969 could be optioned with the 1.1SR with 2 - 1bl carbs. Here is the stats on this car. It is a 1969 Kadett LS says model 92, which my parts manual states it could have that model number as well. It is a 1.1SR with dual solex carbs, but what really makes it unique is it is an Automatic. It was special ordered for the auto option, the SR motor, and a vinyl top. They also put fog lights on it, but they were never wired up. So my next question is what automatic did they use with the 1.1??????? Sounds like this is quite a rare combination, but I had heard that a 1.1 could have an automatic tranny. Did they use the 3-spd???? I am waiting to get pictures of this car, but it really sounds like a diamond in the rough, as it has real low miles and has been garaged. What do you think Otto??? Keith

Sounds like you have a real rare one there, Keith. Let me beat everyone to the punch in urging restoration of this car over all other options that you may consider. A 1.1 A/T of any kind is truly a rare bird . . . in 31 years of Opel ownership, I've heard of only two others!

None of the FSMs or parts manuals mention any A/T other than a TH-180 and, though I've heard of other 1.1 A/Ts, I've never personally inspected one. That's not to say that the A/T couldn't be another model, Powerglide comes to mind, and GM has come up with some odd-ball combinations over the years . . . wouldn't put it past them.

Come to think of it, Rick in Houston bought a pristine '68 1.9 Kadett A/T, the original vehicle GM used for A/C development, from one of the execs in Detroit and it has a 2-speed Powerglide! Just goes to show . . .

Any way you can take some detail pics of engine and tranny? Should be able to tell more from eyeballing . . . take pics of both sides on engine and tranny. Anyway, I always like looking at rare birds, automotive and female, and not necessarily in that order!

[opelspyder]

This is actually a car I consider buying, it is supposedly in pristine shape, under 10,000 miles and sports a red interior that is excellent. This would be one car you would not change a thing, or restore. I will have some pics soon...and will try to figure a way to post them
Keith

[tekenaar]

Originally Posted by opelspyder This is actually a car I consider buying, it is supposedly in pristine shape, under 10,000 miles and sports a red interior that is excellent. This would be one car you would not change a thing, or restore. I will have some pics soon...and will try to figure a way to post them Keith

. . . AMEN, that's what I meant too by "restore" . . . "bring it back to totally original". Like I said, definitely worth persuing . . . really "rare bird"!

[oldopelguy]

The auto with the 1.1 was a one year only option here in the US, though I can't remember the year, seems like 69 but I could be wrong. It is the same transmission as the 1.9, though the torque converter is about 6" in diameter, probably the smallest production unit ever used in the US.

I would love to get a couple of those torque converters and the matching bells from one of our European friends, I'd do a couple conversions myself. Big question is whether the 1.1/Auto Kadett had yet another different floor pan or used th same one as the 1.9 auto.

[opelspyder]

The part number book states that the 1.1 floor is different than a 1.9, and the automatic is different than a 4 speed floor. I read somewhere at one time that to take a 1.1 Kadett, and make it a 1.9 car with 4 speed, the floor and firewall would need to be completely changed as well as the drivetrain, due to mounts and rear end.

Okay the next question!!!!!!!!!!1

In 1969 could a customer order a 1.1SR GT with an automatic transmission as an option?????? And if so has there been any reported cases of one. Now that would be a rare bird.

Keith

[tekenaar]

Originally Posted by oldopelguy The auto with the 1.1 was a one year only option here in the US, though I can't remember the year, seems like 69 but I could be wrong. It is the same transmission as the 1.9, though the torque converter is about 6" in diameter, probably the smallest production unit ever used in the US. I would love to get a couple of those torque converters and the matching bells from one of our European friends, I'd do a couple conversions myself. Big question is whether the 1.1/Auto Kadett had yet another different floor pan or used th same one as the 1.9 auto. Originally Posted by opelspyder The part number book states that the 1.1 floor is different than a 1.9, and the automatic is different than a 4 speed floor. I read somewhere at one time that to take a 1.1 Kadett, and make it a 1.9 car with 4 speed, the floor and firewall would need to be completely changed as well as the drivetrain, due to mounts and rear end. Okay the next question!!!!!!!!!!1 In 1969 could a customer order a 1.1SR GT with an automatic transmission as an option?????? And if so has there been any reported cases of one. Now that would be a rare bird. Keith

The single year that the 1.1 A/T was offered was almost certainly 1969. The differing floor-plans were first necessary and used in 1968 when the CIH engine was first offered in the Kadett models, namely 1.1 floor, 1.9 standard floor and 1.9 A/T floor.

From Stephen's post, the only difference between the 1.1 and 1.9 A/Ts are the bell housing and torque converter used. It stands to reason then, that GM would use an existing floor-plan to accommodate the one-year 1.1 A/T option, more than likely the 1.9 A/T.

[oldopelguy]

There were at least two different manual transmission 1.1 Kadett floors, one for the regular transmission where the shifter came out up under the dash and another for use with the sport transmission where the shifter was almost a foot further back. The 1.9 manual and auto each had different floors as well, so at least the 4 different floors in total. I agree with Otto that the 1.1 auto probably used the same floor as the 1.9 auto, but I don't think Kevin will let me take his wagon apart to find out for sure.

[tekenaar]

Originally Posted by opelspyder The part number book states that the 1.1 floor is different than a 1.9, and the automatic is different than a 4 speed floor. I read somewhere at one time that to take a 1.1 Kadett, and make it a 1.9 car with 4 speed, the floor and firewall would need to be completely changed as well as the drivetrain, due to mounts and rear end. Okay the next question!!!!!!!!!!1 In 1969 could a customer order a 1.1SR GT with an automatic transmission as an option?????? And if so has there been any reported cases of one. Now that would be a rare bird. Keith

Hmmmm, intriguing . . . I would say, "Yes!" Just think, such a GT, even though a '69 model, would be even rarer than a "true 1968"!

Remember too, that both the A/T and A/C options were specifically developed for the American market . . . I doubt that they were even offered elsewhere during the '68/'69 model years . . . as they say, "Only in America!"

[kevinfier]

No you cannot take my Kadett apart to check the floor pan.

I believe you are right that the year for 1.1SR w/ AT was '69. I have had 2 '69 wagons w/ this setup.

I read somewhere that the TH180 used w/ the 1.1 had internal differences, I think it was in the number of clutch discs.

Kevin

[GTJIM]

Originally Posted by kevinfier I read somewhere that the TH180 used w/ the 1.1 had internal differences, I think it was in the number of clutch discs. Kevin

Yep - TH180 low gear clutch pack:

Rover & Holden V8 have 5 friction discs and six steel with 10" convertor

Holden 6-cylinder have 4 friction discs and five steel with 9" convertor

Opel CIH 4-cylinder has 3 friction discs and four steel with 9" convertor

So I guess:

Opel 1.1L OHV has 2 friction discs and three steel with 8" convertor!

The clutch pack cover just gets thicker and thicker to compensate.
Quite a versatile auto trans design.

[JudokaJohn]

when i was a kid, my mother bought a brand new 1969 Opel Kadette wagon. it was 1970, so it was the previous year's model. however, it had an automatic trans, as she could not drive a clutch. Our car had the 1.1 L engine with 2 single-barrel Solex carbs. it got good mileage. i thought the auto trans was a GM one, but i am not sure.

as for ordering one, back then many people would "order" American cars, but it takes too long to get a European car the exact way you might want it. So, dealers would order what they believed would sell. they would try for many different combos. So, when my mom bought her car, it was one of a few that the Mixon Buick-Opel in East St. Louis had left.

I loved that car. it didn't have great power, but it handled great, and was a blast to drive.

It is my opinion that Buick did not want to sell Opels, but they were forced on the Buick dealers by GM. That is one reason why they were not as popular as they could have been. they did have some good ads, though.
I remeber trying to get parts from the dealers, and most did not carry very many parts. The parts guys were not at all enthusiastic about helping you get Opel parts.

I remember comparing the Kadette wagon to a friend's VW wagon, and the Opel was roomier, had more power, and seemed like a better machine. But VW learned early to build a great dealer network in the U.S. if you wanted to sell a lot of cars.

[Anonymous D]

The 1.1 Kadett Auto Trans was an acknowledged option in the Opel Tech Bulletins for 1969, and there was at least one known to be built (with an a/c option) as a 1966 model.