73 manta restoration saga - Page 2

Paul · 12-15-2006

Originally Posted by blitz74

well i've just gotten word from the engine shop that the 2.0 engine we bought from Opels Unlimited (i saw someone else here refer to them as Opels Unreachable - a more appropriate name) has a lot of problems and would be very costly to bring up to running condition.
thats all for now.

Unless you just want a refund or another used 2.0, maybe you could just use the 2.0 internal parts to your advantage. The desirable parts are the pistons and the intake valves.

If the pistons are good and reusable, you can use them and overbore your or another 1.9 block. You should be able to purchase new rings and a new head gasket from OGTS.

If the 2.0 head is no good, you can intstall the intake valves from the 2.0 into a 1.9 head. Use the 1.9 exhausts and add haedened valve seats. Follow the RallyBob instructions for bowl work behind the intake valves and you will have ~16% more intake flow. Couple this with a street ported intake manifold and you will have 35 - 40% more power than a stock low compression engine. Ad the combo or similar cam for another 10hp or so...

All is not lost, just a slight course correction...........

blitz74 · 12-17-2006

Ok, got some specifics - it appears that the pistons are badly scored, along with the bearings, and it "looks like it's been sitting in water for a long time"

paul - thanks for the tips about the head. we're using the original 1.9 head, and have already had it inspected and rebuilt by the same engine builder. as far as i know, the only changes were hardened seats and new valves (i hope they're bigger valves but i don't know). i'd like to try porting it, that sounds like a good way to improve performance. although it would have to be dipped again to get all the metal shards out...

as far as the block, i was thinking myself that it might be a good idea to just bore the 1.9 a tad over, so that is a possibilty. my dad is going to try to get in contact with Todd at OU and work something out..

i hope the 5-speed trans he sold us isn't junk too....

will update when anything worth talking about happens.

Paul · 12-17-2006

[quote=blitz74;111933]Ok, got some specifics - it appears that the pistons are badly scored, along with the bearings, and it "looks like it's been sitting in water for a long time"

paul - thanks for the tips about the head. we're using the original 1.9 head, and have already had it inspected and rebuilt by the same engine builder. as far as i know, the only changes were hardened seats and new valves (i hope they're bigger valves but i don't know). i'd like to try porting it, that sounds like a good way to improve performance.

as far as the block, i was thinking myself that it might be a good idea to just bore the 1.9 a tad over, so that is a possibilty. my dad is going to try to get in contact with Todd at OU and work something out..

QUOTE]

If the motor is junk, then don't bother with it, try to get another from Todd or your money back. If you get your money back, buy some 2.0 pistons and head gasket from OGTS.

Don't bother doing any port work on a 1.9 head if you are using stock 1.9 intake valves. It will flow WORSE. Also if using stock intakes, don't port on the exhaust... The exhaust is already WAY MORE efficient than the intake. Making ANY improvements to the exhaust will just make the exhaust gas temps higher and hurt ecomony and power. This just the opposite of a SB Chevy....

If you are going to bore out a 1.9, then you must buy new pistons. If you are buying pistons, might as well be the larger 2.0s and get the extra power...

just my thoughts..........

blitz74 · 01-15-2007

Okay, time for an update with a couple of questions. We've basically stripped the interior out: all the seats, the console, and door panels. Unfortunately I don't have any pictures to post at the moment.

We took a look at the tranny we bought from Todd at OU and guess what? It doesn't look like it's the right one. We were told it was a 5-speed. It is a Getrag, and has the following numbers: 2400024590 226 Can anyone decode this so I know what we have? I found out that a Getrag 226 is a 6 speed for BMW M3 but that doesn't make sense to me. Any ideas?

Next question is about the center console. Is there anywhere I can get another one, NOS or repro or otherwise?

Thanks!

BQS4 · 01-15-2007

Andrew;
When you post pics, post one of the trans too. As for the console, I might be able to help you there. This is for a 73 Manta correct? If so, it needs the early style console, and I think I have one. Let me check.
Gene

blitz74 · 01-15-2007

Originally Posted by BQS4

Andrew;
When you post pics, post one of the trans too. As for the console, I might be able to help you there. This is for a 73 Manta correct? If so, it needs the early style console, and I think I have one. Let me check.
Gene

Yes it's a 73 with manual trans. That would be great - the main reason is that the original seems kind of flaky. It's not actually broken but the paint is flaking off all over the place. It's salvageable, but a better one would make things easier. So I guess it depends on what kind of shape yours is in. Thanks!

P.S. I won't be over there for a couple weeks, so there won't be pics until then. Sorry!

blitz74 · 01-27-2007

well i got a chance to snap some pictures today of the empty interior and the transmission (which turns out to be a Getrag 240)

http://img77.imageshack.us/img77/530...24smallyg6.jpg

http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/7...17smallfb5.jpg

http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/5...22smallht3.jpg

So, according to what little I've read, I need a driveshaft from an Automatic Manta? Conveniently the other car we have is an Auto, so that's easy enough. What other mods will I need to do in order to fit the transmission properly?

The engine plan as of now is to just use the stock 1.9 block that was in the car already (which has about 60-80k miles on it I think) with its rebuilt head. We got screwed by Todd with the bad 2.0, and my dad is probably going to take some legal action (the engine cost about $1000). So that kinda sucks but progress is still slowly being made on the car.

Hopefully we'll get down to the upholstery shop soon to pick materials for the seats, which I'm going to do in black. Does anyone have suggestions for a good material to use (other than leather but with similar texture, ie vinyl)?

Mike Preble · 01-27-2007

First move the clutch arm over to the drivers side of the tranny. Use the arm from your old clutch as sometimes the one sent over is the one used in Europe and the clutch cable is different. Where the clutch cable goes into the arm there should be a slot for the ball to slide into. In Europe they used a cable that screwed into the arm.

Then follow the instructions already in this forum, do a search for the conversion instructions. The frame piece that the tranny mount connects to will have to be custom made to go from the mount to the origonal frame. The one in the instructions is for a GT and not a Manta. I modified my shifter handle to fit the car and where I wanted it for my own personal preference. I used the front and rear parts with the u-joints from Automatic drive shaft and had a new drive shaft built.

Hopefully everything inside the tranny spins freely. Use the proper lube, lots of controversy on that subject.

Good luck. Mike

blitz74 · 02-01-2007

thanks Mike, that should help when the time comes.

as for the engine.... my dad finally got in contact with OU. Apparently, we may have the option to exchange our garbage-pile engine for a newly rebuilt 2.0 . Personally, I'm tired of messing around with that business but I hope something good comes of it. Todd's assistant is the one who answered the phone and when she went to talk to Todd, my dad heard them yelling at eachother in the background. But apparently this assistant is a decent person and may be trying to get the business to work more the way it should. So we will see how it plays out...

as for now, the interior is stripped.. the carpet is now history. we're going to work on getting the console stripped, smoothed, and repainted, get the seats to the upholsterer, and finish sandblasting the correct wheels. I think we're going to powedercoat them. Question: is there a chrome-looking powder coat available? That would be a great alternative to real chrome.

sorry the updates are slow, i only get a chance to work on the car about once a week

thanks for the advice and stuff!

BQS4 · 02-01-2007

Originally Posted by blitz74

is there a chrome-looking powder coat available? That would be a great alternative to real chrome.

Yes there is, it's called "Nearly Chrome" a memeber here in GA has his own powder coating outfit and does this to GT valve covers. Looks great!
BTW, I didn't forget about your console. I did look and all I have are late model ones (74-75) no early ones, sorry

newman27 · 02-01-2007

Originally Posted by blitz74

... and finish sandblasting the correct wheels. I think we're going to powedercoat them. Question: is there a chrome-looking powder coat available? That would be a great alternative to real chrome.

Originally Posted by BQS4

Yes there is, it's called "Nearly Chrome" a memeber here in GA has his own powder coating outfit and does this to GT valve covers. Looks great!

Here are a couple photos of some parts done in the chrome-like powder coat from Eastwood. I really like the look.

Powder Coat Pics

blitz74 · 02-02-2007

great! that's just what i wanted to hear. Eastwood's "reflective chrome" looks amazing, there was one sample picture. and BQS4, no problem, thanks for looking anyway. we will be able to work with the original console just fine, but it will take longer since some 'bodywork' needs to be done before repainting it.

blitz74 · 02-05-2007

so, this weekend we got the Manta moved into the shop so it won't have to be out in the elements anymore. it's ready for bodywork now and i'm in the process of taking out all the lights, bumpers, trim, and everything that needs to be removed. i've attached some pictures of the car inside, the carpetless interior, the rusty PS louver area, and the messy engine compartment.

blitz74 · 02-11-2007

just a couple more pictures, these are from last wed. i've gotten the car pretty much stripped to the point where it's about ready for bodywork. also included a more detailed pic of the PS louver area, the worst rust spot on the car. there is also some rust on the lower rear quarers. we will probably have to cut some of it out and replace it with new metal.

Manta72 · 02-20-2007

How are things with your engine now? I can understand the situation your in with the motor as I had similar problems too. When I started my project my project, the motor that I got was already a 2.0 with over-bore of 0.50!!! So I had to junk that.

I started all over with a used 1.9 (which I got from a junkshop here) bored it out to 95mm (for 2.0 total). I then had the crankshaft worked on with "knife-edge" counterweights. Finally, the whole rotating assemble was balanced.
The head was worked on with mild porting, bigger valves and stroger valve springs.

The motor is now running on a GT/E camshaft with dual 40 Webers. Ignition is with a Mallory electronic system with a pointless upgrade from Petronix. The car is running really well now and is very strong.

I am using a 5 speed ZF S5-18/3 transmission with a 3.44 rear end. I am still lookinf for that ellusive LSD.

Have attached some photos for you of how the motor started.

Manta72 · 02-20-2007

The completed motor can be seen in the other thread....

blitz74 · 02-20-2007

Originally Posted by Manta72

How are things with your engine now? I can understand the situation your in with the motor as I had similar problems too. When I started my project my project, the motor that I got was already a 2.0 with over-bore of 0.50!!! So I had to junk that.

I started all over with a used 1.9 (which I got from a junkshop here) bored it out to 95mm (for 2.0 total). I then had the crankshaft worked on with "knife-edge" counterweights. Finally, the whole rotating assemble was balanced.
The head was worked on with mild porting, bigger valves and stroger valve springs.

The motor is now running on a GT/E camshaft with dual 40 Webers. Ignition is with a Mallory electronic system with a pointless upgrade from Petronix. The car is running really well now and is very strong.

I am using a 5 speed ZF S5-18/3 transmission with a 3.44 rear end. I am still lookinf for that ellusive LSD.

Have attached some photos for you of how the motor started.

Cool, sounds like a pretty nice setup. How much power does it make? I think my 1.9 head was only rebuilt to stock specs, except for hardened valve seats. I don't think they even put in bigger valves, but I don't know for sure.
Anyway, we still haven't made any progress on getting our money back for the bad block. I'm starting to wonder if we shouldn't just buy a complete engine, like a 2.4 or something.

While I'm posting - does anyone know where I can get some stripes? I'm looking for Rallye/SR stripes, or GT/E stripes, or maybe even stock pinstripes.

The only updates for now - bodywork has started, I did a bunch of sanding to get the clearcoat off, still not done though. Also did some grinding in the rusty spots and filled a couple of them. My uncle did some cutting in the bad rust spots and fabricated some metal pieces to weld in place. Unfortunately we ran out of wire for the welding torch and didn't finish. I only have a couple pictures today. Also, we got the seats to the upholstery place and I picked out black naugahyde that had a leather-looking texture. The guy is a month behind on work, so the seats won't be done for a while.

Manta72 · 02-21-2007

Honestly I have no idea how much power it makes. My best guess is around 140hp. Will have the car dynoed once complete.

What will the final color of your car be? My car is painted in white.

Please see the attachment for the stripes. If you do push through with installing the stripes, I suggest you stick them on bfore you apply the final clear coat on the body. This will make the stripes more durable and make it look like part of the car.

01-27-2007	#32 (permalink)
blitz74 Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Santa Barbara, CA / Helena, MT Posts: 103 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	little update well i got a chance to snap some pictures today of the empty interior and the transmission (which turns out to be a Getrag 240) http://img77.imageshack.us/img77/530...24smallyg6.jpg http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/7...17smallfb5.jpg http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/5...22smallht3.jpg So, according to what little I've read, I need a driveshaft from an Automatic Manta? Conveniently the other car we have is an Auto, so that's easy enough. What other mods will I need to do in order to fit the transmission properly? The engine plan as of now is to just use the stock 1.9 block that was in the car already (which has about 60-80k miles on it I think) with its rebuilt head. We got screwed by Todd with the bad 2.0, and my dad is probably going to take some legal action (the engine cost about $1000). So that kinda sucks but progress is still slowly being made on the car. Hopefully we'll get down to the upholstery shop soon to pick materials for the seats, which I'm going to do in black. Does anyone have suggestions for a good material to use (other than leather but with similar texture, ie vinyl)? Last edited by tekenaar; 01-27-2007 at 12:15 PM..

01-27-2007	#33 (permalink)
Mike Preble Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 346 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	Tranny First move the clutch arm over to the drivers side of the tranny. Use the arm from your old clutch as sometimes the one sent over is the one used in Europe and the clutch cable is different. Where the clutch cable goes into the arm there should be a slot for the ball to slide into. In Europe they used a cable that screwed into the arm. Then follow the instructions already in this forum, do a search for the conversion instructions. The frame piece that the tranny mount connects to will have to be custom made to go from the mount to the origonal frame. The one in the instructions is for a GT and not a Manta. I modified my shifter handle to fit the car and where I wanted it for my own personal preference. I used the front and rear parts with the u-joints from Automatic drive shaft and had a new drive shaft built. Hopefully everything inside the tranny spins freely. Use the proper lube, lots of controversy on that subject. Good luck. Mike

02-01-2007	#34 (permalink)
blitz74 Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Santa Barbara, CA / Helena, MT Posts: 103 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	more engine shenanegans thanks Mike, that should help when the time comes. as for the engine.... my dad finally got in contact with OU. Apparently, we may have the option to exchange our garbage-pile engine for a newly rebuilt 2.0 . Personally, I'm tired of messing around with that business but I hope something good comes of it. Todd's assistant is the one who answered the phone and when she went to talk to Todd, my dad heard them yelling at eachother in the background. But apparently this assistant is a decent person and may be trying to get the business to work more the way it should. So we will see how it plays out... as for now, the interior is stripped.. the carpet is now history. we're going to work on getting the console stripped, smoothed, and repainted, get the seats to the upholsterer, and finish sandblasting the correct wheels. I think we're going to powedercoat them. Question: is there a chrome-looking powder coat available? That would be a great alternative to real chrome. sorry the updates are slow, i only get a chance to work on the car about once a week thanks for the advice and stuff!

02-20-2007	#41 (permalink)
Manta72 Opeler Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Philippines Posts: 48 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	The completed motor can be seen in the other thread.... Last edited by Manta72; 02-20-2007 at 12:55 AM.. Reason: phot already posted

12-17-2006	#27 (permalink)
blitz74 Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Santa Barbara, CA / Helena, MT Posts: 103 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	Ok, got some specifics - it appears that the pistons are badly scored, along with the bearings, and it "looks like it's been sitting in water for a long time" paul - thanks for the tips about the head. we're using the original 1.9 head, and have already had it inspected and rebuilt by the same engine builder. as far as i know, the only changes were hardened seats and new valves (i hope they're bigger valves but i don't know). i'd like to try porting it, that sounds like a good way to improve performance. although it would have to be dipped again to get all the metal shards out... as far as the block, i was thinking myself that it might be a good idea to just bore the 1.9 a tad over, so that is a possibilty. my dad is going to try to get in contact with Todd at OU and work something out.. i hope the 5-speed trans he sold us isn't junk too.... will update when anything worth talking about happens.

12-17-2006	#28 (permalink)
Paul Member 1000 Post Club Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Ft Smith, Arkansas Posts: 1,364 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	[quote=blitz74;111933]Ok, got some specifics - it appears that the pistons are badly scored, along with the bearings, and it "looks like it's been sitting in water for a long time" paul - thanks for the tips about the head. we're using the original 1.9 head, and have already had it inspected and rebuilt by the same engine builder. as far as i know, the only changes were hardened seats and new valves (i hope they're bigger valves but i don't know). i'd like to try porting it, that sounds like a good way to improve performance. as far as the block, i was thinking myself that it might be a good idea to just bore the 1.9 a tad over, so that is a possibilty. my dad is going to try to get in contact with Todd at OU and work something out.. QUOTE] If the motor is junk, then don't bother with it, try to get another from Todd or your money back. If you get your money back, buy some 2.0 pistons and head gasket from OGTS. Don't bother doing any port work on a 1.9 head if you are using stock 1.9 intake valves. It will flow WORSE. Also if using stock intakes, don't port on the exhaust... The exhaust is already WAY MORE efficient than the intake. Making ANY improvements to the exhaust will just make the exhaust gas temps higher and hurt ecomony and power. This just the opposite of a SB Chevy.... If you are going to bore out a 1.9, then you must buy new pistons. If you are buying pistons, might as well be the larger 2.0s and get the extra power... just my thoughts..........

01-15-2007	#29 (permalink)
blitz74 Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Santa Barbara, CA / Helena, MT Posts: 103 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	Okay, time for an update with a couple of questions. We've basically stripped the interior out: all the seats, the console, and door panels. Unfortunately I don't have any pictures to post at the moment. We took a look at the tranny we bought from Todd at OU and guess what? It doesn't look like it's the right one. We were told it was a 5-speed. It is a Getrag, and has the following numbers: 2400024590 226 Can anyone decode this so I know what we have? I found out that a Getrag 226 is a 6 speed for BMW M3 but that doesn't make sense to me. Any ideas? Next question is about the center console. Is there anywhere I can get another one, NOS or repro or otherwise? Thanks!

01-15-2007	#30 (permalink)
BQS4 Southern Red Neck Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Snellville, GA Posts: 5,058 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	Andrew; When you post pics, post one of the trans too. As for the console, I might be able to help you there. This is for a 73 Manta correct? If so, it needs the early style console, and I think I have one. Let me check. Gene

02-02-2007	#37 (permalink)
blitz74 Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Santa Barbara, CA / Helena, MT Posts: 103 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	great! that's just what i wanted to hear. Eastwood's "reflective chrome" looks amazing, there was one sample picture. and BQS4, no problem, thanks for looking anyway. we will be able to work with the original console just fine, but it will take longer since some 'bodywork' needs to be done before repainting it.