Manta Alignment

[neuropel]

I need to get a front end alignment on my '74 Manta. I went around to some of the local shops and found one that was more of an "old school" type shop - a mechanic that has a shop right next to his house. He said he would need to check to see if his machine had the car listed, and sure enough it had a "Buick Opel" category. The database only went back to '75, and listed simply "All Models" for that year. So before I proceed - is there any difference in alignment specs between the 75 Manta and other years?

Todd K.

[Paul]

Todd,

My first thought is there would be no difference.... However, the alignment you want might not be to factory specs..... Are you running a lowered suspension, etc???

I like to run about 1 degree neg camber, 4 - 6 degrees of caster and a pinch of toe in. These are not factory specs... However, what you're really up against is putting the car on the rack checking the alignment, including swinging the caster, and then seeing what it takes to balance/match the settings right to left, to minimize thrust.... This may mean only setting the toe initially, going back to the house to fabricate a few items and returning later to dial in the other settings....

[neuropel]

Yep...definitely running a lowered suspension.
Can you explain further on "fabricating a few items"?

The car is running nice and straight as is - I just wanted to get an alignment after rebuilding the front end before I take it on a long drive to Carlisle. Everything has been replaced up front - all new poly bushings, tie rod ends, ball joints, etc.

Todd

[hrcollinsjr]

Originally Posted by neuropel So before I proceed - is there any difference in alignment specs between the 75 Manta and other years? Todd K.

There is a TSB on installing longer upper control arms on the 50 series cars. This will change the camber. IIRC sometime during the '74 model year they made this improvement, so your '75 model would/should have these.

Harold

[neuropel]

I just called the shop and told them that the alignment I need may not be to factory specs, and asked if I could give them the specs I'd like used. I was told they can ONLY put it to the factory specs. Sounds like I need to find another shop. Nothing is ever easy...

I just want the car to track straight down the road and not chew up my tires, but I guess that's asking for a lot!

Todd

[Paul]

Originally Posted by neuropel Yep...definitely running a lowered suspension. Can you explain further on "fabricating a few items"? The car is running nice and straight as is - I just wanted to get an alignment after rebuilding the front end before I take it on a long drive to Carlisle. Everything has been replaced up front - all new poly bushings, tie rod ends, ball joints, etc. Todd

Todd,
To change caster requires a change in both the front and rear washers that install on the long bolt that mounts the UCA. To increase caster material has to be removed from the front washer and added to the rear washer... by the exact same amount. I had some new hardened washers made.

Camber... Lowering the car causes an increase in negative camber. We know the upper ball joint can be rotated 180 degrees, but this is a 3 degree change in camber. If you need less change, the ball joint mounting holes need to be elongated. As I'm sure you know, RallyBob has posted pictures of how to make and adjustable bracket for changing camber and holding the ball joint in place to prevent slippage. I took a modified approach. I slotted the rear bolt hole (~1/8") and left the forward hole stock to allow for fine adjustment. To help prevent slippage of the ball joint, I purchased new grade 8 bolts and lock nuts and used star washers to give some added bite.

I set Toe-In at 1/32" per side.



For your trip to Carlisle, all you really need to do is check to make sure there is no major variation side to side of Camber or Caster, due to bent suspension components, and then set the Toe. Working on the caster and camber helps to maximize corning

[saxybiker]

Todd:

Talk to some of the custom car guys in your area (or call a speed shop) and see who they have do their alignments. We took a couple of our cars to the local alignment shop and it was o.k. But we found the shop that caters to the "hot rod" crowd was able to do our custom suspension on the V8 and also a better job on the regular cars.

Vickie

[Paul]

Originally Posted by neuropel I just called the shop and told them that the alignment I need may not be to factory specs, and asked if I could give them the specs I'd like used. I was told they can ONLY put it to the factory specs. Sounds like I need to find another shop. Nothing is ever easy... I just want the car to track straight down the road and not chew up my tires, but I guess that's asking for a lot! Todd

To the traditional alignment shop, the Manta front end is not adjustable other than Toe. So they can set it to "Factory" toe in specs and everything will be OK

[DennisGardiner]

1971 Manta/1900 Specs:
Caster 3+ degrees +/- 1 degree
Camber -1 degree +/- 1/2 degree
Toe 1/8" min. - 3/16 max.

1972-73 Manta/1900 Specs:
Caster 3 1/2+ to 6 1/2+ degrees (1 degree maximum deviation L. to R.)
Camber -1 degree +/- 1/2 degree
Toe 1/8" min. - 3/16 max.

1974-75 Manta/1900 Specs:
Caster 3+ to 6+ degrees (1 degree maximum deviation L. to R.)
Camber -1 degree +/- 1/2 degree
Toe 1/8" min. - 3/16 max.

[neuropel]

I'm back from the shop. He only adjusted toe - the rest of it seemed close to spec, and actually the toe wasn't out bad.
Machine used was a "Bear" - looked like an oldie with the monochrome CGA graphics! Seemed good driving home. I was standing beside him as he was adjusting it so I watched him bring it within spec.

We'll see! I should be capable of driving to Carlisle now as everything else is relatively minor stuff, mostly to do with the interior.

Todd

[Paul]

Todd,

If you really want to get anal about an alignment, you can always request to sit in the drivers seat to account for the actual weight distribution....

I used to drive the tire shop nuts when getting a "Complete" Auto-cross alignment.... first they had to change from street tires to race tires then do the alignment with me in the car...

[hrcollinsjr]

Originally Posted by Paul Todd, If you really want to get anal about an alignment, you can always request to sit in the drivers seat to account for the actual weight distribution...

Depending on your size and the size of your vehicle it can make a noticeable difference even on a street driven vehicle. If you normally carry a bunch of weight in your trunk leave it there for the alignment. I'm just under 200# and my weight was enough to throw my old 2wd Ramcharger out of spec's. The alignment guy said he had seen it before with really big people or little vehicles but was really surprised that I had an effect on full sized vehicle. I believe BMW specifies weight to be added in specific amounts and at specific locations when aligning their cars.

Know the difference between a porcupine and a BMW? The *****s are on the outside of the porcupine!

Harold