Welding tips and suggestions?

[CoriolisSTORM]

Okay gentlemen, I started my welding class today at the Institute, and as of right now, I HATE WELDING at this time. I am just frustrated with it. We are doing "stick welding" currently, (proper term is SMAW I believe) Anyway, do you guys have any tips I can pass along and use and tell my buddies about? I am awful at it, and managed to stick the rod at least 15 times in 2 hours today. I also cant get a good bead to start and hold (instructor said I was holding it too far away). Anyway, do you all have any suggestions or thoughts or concerns? On a side note, I stuck the welding rod one time, and pulled the electrode off, then not thinking, went to attach the lead back to it without removing the rod from the work. Yeah, that was a great arc...

[Gumby]

Yeah that just takes practice. I personally hated doing that kind of welding for the same reason you do when I first started, but after a while you get used to it. Just becareful and remember if you get frustrated leave the work for a few minutes to cool down before you go back and try it again. Welding is just like any other skill.

Now get an Acet/oxy torch in my hand and I love it.

BTW have fun learning about welding! It can be a lot of fun.

[tomking]

Yes,I have a suggestion. First of all we have all been there, done that to start with.. It simply takes practice. Practice, practice, practice. You will get the hang of it with practice. It really isnt all that hard, just have to get the technique from your brain to your hand, coordinated with your eyes.

[baz]

1 don't be afraid of it , i was when i first started doing it and its the worst thing
2 when you start the arc feel free to hold the rod with your spare hand to steady it and stroke the electrode over the joint or plate don't tap it to start up the arc
3 when you are going to use a rod that has been used a bit , use your glove and thumb to take the dimple of slag off the end of the rod so you have metal to metal contact
4 get your head in , you have to see what you are doing and what the rod is doing so you need to be close to the job
5 accept the fact you are going to get burnt on your arm , head and neck , its ok, but when you start getting speed balls fizzing in your ear and down your boots , know you are getting there (i charge by the burn on a car when i weld them not by the foot of welding )

these should do to start with and im sure more will come soon

[CoriolisSTORM]

Originally Posted by baz 1 don't be afraid of it , i was when i first started doing it and its the worst thing 2 when you start the arc feel free to hold the rod with your spare hand to steady it and stroke the electrode over the joint or plate don't tap it to start up the arc 3 when you are going to use a rod that has been used a bit , use your glove and thumb to take the dimple of slag off the end of the rod so you have metal to metal contact 4 get your head in , you have to see what you are doing and what the rod is doing so you need to be close to the job 5 accept the fact you are going to get burnt on your arm , head and neck , its ok, but when you start getting speed balls fizzing in your ear and down your boots , know you are getting there (i charge by the burn on a car when i weld them not by the foot of welding ) these should do to start with and im sure more will come soon

I've generally tried to do all of these. Thanks so far guys. And yes, I'm accepting the fact that I am going to get burnt quite a bit knowing me. You guys have no idea! Anyway, this is only a 2 week class since our schedule was already made and the suppliers told the coordinators that we needed welding. 2 weeks, 8 hours a day, think thats enough to become at least decent with a welder? 80 hours basically. And being afraid of it is probably one of my biggest things, after all, the arc is only about 6k degrees F (according to the book) I'll try all the things mentioned so far and keep an open mind for other suggestions. At least now, I'll have some basic knowledge for when I take the floor pans out of the Opel and actually start on it.

[Gumby]

I've been told that the arcs can get up to 12,000 degrees. At least that is what I was taught when I took a welding class...

Gas torches usually operate at around 6,000 degrees.

But if you have confidence in yourself I think you'll do just fine. I've heard of people learning how to weld in much less time, so it is very possible.

[baz]

yes the arc is hot but its the black heat when its cooled a bit and looks like its cold and you lean on it that gets you

we are not allowed to do repairs to cars with a stick welder here any more it has to be done with MIG or TIG and some of the new cars that have a medium carbon steel body (same strength but thinner and lighter than say our opel body work) have to have parches bonded in with glue so as not to anneal them and take out the work hardened strength

wait till the first time the slag peels off on its own and you grin from ear to ear

[CoriolisSTORM]

Yep, our instructor told us about the slag being able to peel off on its own. I'm ready for that. The welding that I learn is more for industrial maintenance than on cars and such. (If that was what you're referring to. All welding at MBUSI that is done on cars is done with robots) However, I'd like to take what I've learned and apply it to the welding I'm going to have to do on my Opel as I doubt JB Weld or somesuch will hold the floor pans in

[Gumby]

I wish I had a tig welder

CoriolisSTORM I'm kind of curious what it is you do that requires you learn how to do that kind of welding?

[CoriolisSTORM]

I'm an "Industrial Maintenance Apprentice" currently, basically, in common English, I'm in school to be a maintenance man at a factory, or in this case, a supplier of Mercedes-Benz. I believe we will learn at least one more type of welding before my time is up in this class. From what I do know, a tig welder would be a good thing to learn.

[baz]

in an industrial base you are more likely to be taught to MiG as its the easiest and quickest to do
TIG is done more for thin sheet uses , not a common need it a factory for maintenance where a snot of mig will do

[RallyBob]

FWIW, I still hate arc (stick) welding to this day. I learned by oxy-acetylene at age 14, welding in floor pans and rocker panels on my first car (self-taught). Got a MIG shortly thereafter, very handy and quick compared to gas welding! Only got my first TIG a couple years back...don't know how I went without for so long!

Ironically I got my very first flash-burns (eyes) just last year, and proceeded to get it 4 more times over the next few months. Man that hurts!

Practice is the best cure, but don't forget to keep an extinguisher around, these old cars have lots of flammable stuff on them.

Bob

[CoriolisSTORM]

Yep, I've gotta take basically everything out as it is though, so all there should be is bare sheet metal in the car. I want to work on it a little more before I begin to work on the Opel though. Its too rare/valuable (to me anyway) to really screw up the floor with bad welds and such or to catch on fire...

[jeff denton]

I find it odd that a welding class starts with stick arc welding. Usually it starts with oxy acetylene. Because it is so basic, it shows how heat applied just right and rod added as you move the heat around, how the puddles form and a ridge develops behind. Just like in the other forms of welding but slow enough that you can see it all happening and can learn to make it happen.
Be patient, you'll get it.

[baz]

8 weeks to teach them jeff and if the place only uses stick and maybe mig or tig then they will not teach them to gas weld which is a shame as it is by far the best place to start

my first lessons in welding involved a fire, some steel,some sand, a hammer and an anvil now thats welding the blacksmiths way

[wrench459]

tip 1 get a sharp pair of side cutters
2 cut the electrode in half or bend it
3 start out cold after striking a arc then move in like stated before
get in close so that you can see the puddle.
when your cold all your doing is getting metal everywhere(splatter)
when your to hot your burning holes let the tip of the rod
control the heat
after awhile its a piece of cake
and try reverse polarity :-)

[markandson]

I think learning where to look is extremely important. Once you get the arc started, and you are in close, like others have stated, try to concenrate on what you are seeing. Through all that chaos there is the puddle and the melting metal, that is what to concentrate on, all the bright lights are just to fancy up the process , keep your eyes on the goal, melting and fusing the metal.

[GTJIM]

The sign of a good welder is someone whose hand trembles just enough to lay down a perfect weld ... while suffering 3rd degree burns!

(Been there! Factory Maintenance Engineer for several years ... )

Look at it this way - you are learning a skill that will save you heaps when repairing your Opel!

[wrench459]

Originally Posted by GTJIM The sign of a good welder is someone whose hand trembles just enough to lay down a perfect weld ... Look at it this way - you are learning a skill that will save you heaps when repairing your Opel!

Amen and thats the truth

[soybean]

I started welding with a stck welder and can do it, but don't like to. I purchased a Miller Mig last year, for Farm use of course, and love it. Another good piece of equipment is an auto darkening helmet, plus a baseball cap turned around backwards. Helps save the head and hair. Ask me how I know. Good luck and like the other posts said, practice.
Jarrell

[jerseyopel]

What kind of electrode are you welding with and in what position? Also the autolens is a good idea for a beginner as it reduces arc flash on the eyes and the frustration of lifting shield while breaking stick off the fused welding coupon. Start with 1 or 2 F position and work from there. It takes a little time but you should have it pretty good in a week.

[azopelnut]

What is the opinion of the welders on the forum of "flux core" wire? I just picked up a used Lincoln Welder that doesn't have gas.
I want to attack some panels on my GT and Ascona (both midwest cars with some rusty panels)

[Paul]

Paul,

I heard that flux core isn't as freindly to weld on thin sheet metal. I just bought a Hobart MiG welder for Christmas. The rating plate info says I must use .024" solid wire and gas for 24 Ga. The chart shows 18 ga is the thinnest recommended for .030" flux core wire.

Mine came "Gas Ready" All I have to do is buy the bottle......

[baz]

flux core welding is never pretty it is not as good at penetration too as you are working with a poz job and a neg gun normally where as with gas its neg job poz gun but it will do the job

[Washout]

I started out many years ago as a construction welder, tank builder. The one thing I've not seen recommended here is LISTEN. Pay attention to the sound of the burning rod (stick welding). You will learn to know when you have just the right gap by the sound of the rod, Too far out and it will get louder and splatter will increase, too close and it will seem muffled. The sound will also tell you if you've got the amperage too high or low. If you crank up the amps and force a muffled sound, you will be causing deeper penetration on thick metals, this is trick pipe welders use to force a bead on the inside of a piece of pipe.
Also when starting out have an experienced welder set the amperage for you to ensure that it's right. Learn to weld first and how to set the machine later. I've welded with Mig, Tig, acetylene and stick. I found Tig to be the most difficult.