Saving my 2.2 (engine documentation thread) - Page 3
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Thread: Saving my 2.2 (engine documentation thread)

  1. #41
    Über Genius My location First opel 1981's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrench459 View Post
    I've never had to put a crank on the grinder just to measure the journals
    Yeah, if that's what they were doing then I'd be scared.
    What happened is that they knew they had Opel numbers because they've ground an Opel crank before. So they loaded up the crank on the grinder and went to look for the numbers. They said 70mm

    I'm sure this is the conversation...

    Hmm, 70mm? That looks wrong. Check it again...
    Yup, 70mm

    But, this crank is longer throw than that. It's a weird number. It's not 77, it's not 78. What's up?!

    Find the numbers!!

    I don't see anything but 70mm!

    Call the guy who sent it in!!


    And so they called me but I didn't know the throw of the 2.2. I'd seen it but didn't know. And I didn't have time to look it up so I called the people I knew would have the answer and they did! Problem solved.

    Unfortunately, the grinder driver didn't drop the crank off at my machinist shop today. So, now it's Friday that I pick it up.

    Me? Worried? Nah. Last time I had an Opel crank ground it took them three weeks to get to it. And then the guy ground it while I waited at the counter. Took all of 10 minutes.
    Opel GTs are not GM products
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  3. #42
    Über Genius My location First opel 1981's Avatar
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    Crankshaft is back. Everything was ground down .030. Rods and mains.
    Bearings are on the way.

    When I picked up the crank I dropped off the low compression pistons, which had forged rods, and my 2.2 pistons with the cast rods, to have them all separated.

    This morning I picked the pistons, rods, and wrist pins up to weigh match them before reassembling into the 2.2 with forged rods.


    When weighing them I found out that the wrist pins on the low comp 1.9 pistons were .4 ounces heavier than the 2.2 wrist pins. And the cast rods were heavier than the forged rods.
    All in all, I'm going to be .7 ounces lighter on my piston/rod set.

    And, lucky for me, all balanced out really easy. Two rods were .1 ounce heavier than the others and two pistons were .1 ounce lighter than the other two. So, yeah, balancing went easy.

    Next up is to send the pistons back to be reassembled and the block to be hot tanked, bored, honed, and then hot tanked again. Then I want to powder coat the block before reassembling it all.
    ggl likes this.
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  4. #43
    Project 1450 supporter... Site Supporter My location RallyBob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by First opel 1981 View Post
    Crankshaft is back. Everything was ground down .030. Rods and mains.
    Bearings are on the way.
    Are the bearing thrusts undersized? If so the crank needs to be ground undersized on the thrust surfaces.
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    '70 GT 'Bonnie', '71 Ascona 4-dr turbo - winter beater, '71 Ascona 4-dr 'Turd' - rallycar, '72 Manta Rallye - hillclimb car, '72 Ascona wagon - 'Red', '72 Manta - caged street car, '73 Manta Luxus, '73 Ascona 2-dr, '74 Ascona 2-dr - Project X, '74 Manta Luxus - factory sunroof, '74 Manta ITB racecar, '75 Manta, '75 Sportwagon, '75 Manta - racecar

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  6. #44
    Kid at heart Frozen Tundra GT's Avatar
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    on my 1.9 crank that was ground I think .20? the thrust clearance was way too tight and ended up lightly sanding down thrust surface on thrust bearing.

    not ideal, but didnt want to bring it back to shop.

  7. #45
    Über Genius My location First opel 1981's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RallyBob View Post
    Are the bearing thrusts undersized? If so the crank needs to be ground undersized on the thrust surfaces.
    Looking at the crank, it is evident that the machinist ground the thrust surface as well. I'm hoping that means that the thrust bearing standard is to go big on the thrust whenever going big on the face, by a fixed ratio (hopefully 1:1).

    I will know, for sure, when the main bearings get here.

    The crank was already ground 20/20 so they just went to 30/30. Worst case scenario is I will take it back to the machinist, or like Lee Harvey said, sand the thrust down.
    Opel GTs are not GM products
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  8. #46
    7,000 Post Club My location wrench459's Avatar
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    Another thing to keep in mind..
    With a .030 undersize the range for the main runs 2.2530-2.2535 for the mains.
    Most crank grinders want the hit the center...2.25325.

    This area is called the split.

    Now some bearing manufacturers will go on the high or low side of the splits.

    Oh pooh you'll find out about this when it's going back together and getting the measurements.

    Si vis pacem, para bellum "If you want peace, prepare for war"

  9. #47
    Über Genius My location First opel 1981's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrench459 View Post
    Another thing to keep in mind..
    With a .030 undersize the range for the main runs 2.2530-2.2535 for the mains.
    Most crank grinders want the hit the center...2.25325.

    This area is called the split.

    Now some bearing manufacturers will go on the high or low side of the splits.

    Oh pooh you'll find out about this when it's going back together and getting the measurements.
    Thats what Plastiguage is for.
    Opel GTs are not GM products
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  10. #48
    7,000 Post Club My location wrench459's Avatar
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    The green stuff works well with clearancing the side slop.

    Si vis pacem, para bellum "If you want peace, prepare for war"

  11. #49
    Über Genius My location First opel 1981's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrench459 View Post
    The green stuff works well with clearancing the side slop.
    Yeah, so does a feeler guage.
    I'll use the plastiguage on the faces but the side slop is old school. A screwdriver and a feeler guage.

    But, really, the day I worry that much about the thrust bearing is the day I start my Nascar career. On a driver you can, pretty much, eyeball the thrust surface.
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  12. #50
    Über Genius My location First opel 1981's Avatar
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    The numbers aren't adding up.

    I have a NEW crank that I'm using for comparisons for journal size and what-not, and the numbers aren't making sense.

    I'm using China Freight measuring devices so, for now, I'm waiting til the bearings arrive to make judgments.

    But, for now, the thrust bearing surface looks like it might be small.

    (It doesn't help that the mains in the engine were a mix of .020 and .010 as if they only ground some of the journals.)
    Opel GTs are not GM products
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    Humans are not an endangered species!
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  13. #51
    Über Genius My location First opel 1981's Avatar
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    Decisions, decisions...

    As suspected, the thrust bearing surface is too small.

    1) Sand down the new thrust bearing to make it fit.
    2) Send the crank back, with the bearing, to have the thrust surface ground.
    Opel GTs are not GM products
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    Humans are not an endangered species!
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  14. #52
    Kid at heart Frozen Tundra GT's Avatar
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    if you have a little time the shop is close, and they can get it in soon, do that.

    otherwise do some wet sanding finesse on that lil darling on a super flat surface.

  15. #53
    Über Genius My location First opel 1981's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frozen Tundra GT View Post
    if you have a little time the shop is close, and they can get it in soon, do that.

    otherwise do some wet sanding finesse on that lil darling on a super flat surface.
    The shop isn't close. It's REALLY out of the way.
    I could take it back to my machinist but then they have to send it out to the crank grinder so that won't be any better.
    I won't have the block done, now, for a couple weeks but I was going to test fit everything with the other block I have. So that's on the back burner unless I want to shave the thrust bearing.

    Hmmm
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    ̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶— ̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶ ̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶ ̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—
    Humans are not an endangered species!
    ̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶— ̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶ ̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶ ̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—

  16. #54
    OpelGT.com Übermoderator My location kwilford's Avatar
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    Seems like a simple choice. Either send the crank back to be correctly ground with the appropriate thrust dimension, or attempt to modify the bearing shells and hope that you have removed the correct amount, and that the thrust surface is square and still has some babbit metal left. I know what my choice would be....
    Keith Wilford
    Working on the bare-metal, nut & bolt rotisserie restoration of my '71 Opel GT, and may have another GT to build next...

  17. #55
    Über Genius My location First opel 1981's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwilford View Post
    Seems like a simple choice. Either send the crank back to be correctly ground with the appropriate thrust dimension, or attempt to modify the bearing shells and hope that you have removed the correct amount, and that the thrust surface is square and still has some babbit metal left. I know what my choice would be....
    Yeah, I can make a couple calls tomorrow and probably get the thrust surface worked out long before the block is done getting powder coated.
    Opel GTs are not GM products
    ̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶— ̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶ ̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶ ̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—
    Humans are not an endangered species!
    ̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶— ̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶ ̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶ ̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—

  18. #56
    Über Genius My location First opel 1981's Avatar
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    Today I was going to drop the whole shebang at the machinist but, for the life of me, I couldn't find the pistons I'm adding to the mix. I looked everywhere. And then I remembered I threw away a set of pistons and garbage was picked up last Friday. UGH! NOOOOOOO.

    That's what I get for tidying up my work area a little.

    I took every ounce of my, barely awake, brain power to remember what I threw away. OK, I was sure I didn't throw them out but STILL couldn't find them. I was all ready to accuse my cat of being possessed when I realized there was an unseen box under a crate. Yeah, there was the box with the pistons in it.

    BUT, I was now late for work!! UGH!!

    Everything goes back to the machinist in the morning.
    I'm sending the crank, and the thrust bearing back to have it fitted. Either THEY can take the thrust bearing down .010 OR they can have the crank thrust ground down .010. I am not terribly concerned which way they decide.

    Also, I'm dropping off the 1.9 block I'm having made into the 2.2
    Why a 1.9 block? A couple reasons. 1) I HAVE a spare 1.9 block. 2) If I ever go to, um, race the car it is in, and I want to fudge a little, I can get into a sub 2.0 class. Yeah, I know it's not "right". And since I actually don't race, or care to win, I confortable with it. 3) The 1.9 block is a better metal (or so I'm told).

    Mostly it's because I have a spare 1.9 block.

    The pistons, rods, and wrist pins have all been weigh-matched and will be reassembled at the machinist. Then the block will be individually bored to match the pistons. (one piston is .002 smaller than the other three).
    I'm getting the block double hot tanked so it will be VERY clean.

    The downside... I can't get to the reassembly, now, for 2 weeks. I'm taking a mini vacation!!
    Opel GTs are not GM products
    ̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶— ̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶ ̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶ ̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—
    Humans are not an endangered species!
    ̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶— ̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶ ̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶ ̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—

  19. #57
    Über Genius My location First opel 1981's Avatar
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    I'm picking up the block and the finished crankshaft in the morning.

    I went to the machine shop on Wednesday to make sure they were done but I was going camping so I left them there.

    I've been disposing of a bunch of stuff I'll probably never need, lately, and panicked when I couldn't find my #3 main bearing and cap. Sure, it's not a huge deal to find a bearing cap that will line up right (though not always easy either) but I' was also missing the .030 bearing that was in it. I feared I had thrown it away and was going to have to beg someone for a replacement bearing or buy a new set from OGTS. Either way, I was worried I threw it away. It wouldn't be the first time that I've accidentally tossed something important. Just ask my son about his differential bearing race!

    Anyhow, I found the bearing cap with the bearing in it with the crankshaft at the machinist. I was very relieved.

    So, next up will be to fit the pistons and begin taping the block for powder coating. I still need to build or buy a powder coat oven for the block but I have that all planned out so it's not going to hold me up much.

    As far as I know, I have everything I need to put this back together.

    Doesn't mean I won't be surprised by something along the way.
    Last edited by hrcollinsjr; 06-30-2014 at 07:41 AM.
    Opel GTs are not GM products
    ̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶— ̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶ ̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶ ̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—
    Humans are not an endangered species!
    ̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶— ̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶ ̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶ ̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—

  20. #58
    Kid at heart Frozen Tundra GT's Avatar
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    I have spare .030 bearings. I had to order another set when I accidentally scratched one deep. good thing you found em though

  21. #59
    Über Genius My location First opel 1981's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frozen Tundra GT View Post
    I have spare .030 bearings. I had to order another set when I accidentally scratched one deep. good thing you found em though
    See? You know what I was going through.

    This engine was never in the budget so each $100 bill bites the big one.
    Opel GTs are not GM products
    ̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶— ̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶ ̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶ ̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—
    Humans are not an endangered species!
    ̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶— ̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶ ̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶ ̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—̶̶̶̶̶̶̶—

  22. #60
    1000 Post Club
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    Double-check the piston height relative to the block once it is reassembled, to assure adequate valve clearance at higher RPM's. Sometime a block has been decked and you don't know it.

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