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| Monza/Senator Monza and Senator A and Senator B Forum |
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#1 (permalink) |
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86 monza
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monza 3l moter same as a 2.8 commodore moter???
hey
any information would be great regarding this matter!i have just recently purchased an opel commodore,4 door,2.8 injected 4 speed manual.i was just wondering if these motors are the same or (how similar)they are to my 86 opel monza 3l.last question,are the 4 speed manuals any good? cheers michael Last edited by tekenaar; 10-03-2007 at 01:26 PM.. Reason: manuel, woundering, moter, simular |
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#2 (permalink) |
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"The Jägermeister"
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The straight-6 CIH Opel motors are all the same family, from the 2.6 to 3.0 Liter versions. They only have a different displacement, but I don't know whether its bore or stroke differences. They are mechanically interchangeable (motor mounts, clutch, gear box...).
This excludes the later 3.0 DOHC motors (Senator B/Omega A), they have a different block/head. The manual transmissions are ok if your motor is close to stock. I wrecked two automatic transmissions on straight-6 motors back in Germany, but never had any trouble with a 4-speed conversion in an Admiral. Of course, a 5-speed Getrag 265 is unbeatable in this league. Dieter |
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#3 (permalink) |
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Opelitis since 1984
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Going completely off memory.. So forgive me if I am wrong.
Main difference in 2.6 to 3.0L should be in the bore.. Dont know a lot about 2.6L but believe if its like a 1.7L then the head camber will be smaller and bore the same or it could be like a 1.9L head on a 1.5L Block and the head is the same the bore slighly smaller. But the 2.8L and 3.0L are about the same head.. different bore. The 2.8L was basically a carb motor. Although some 2.8L Commodore B GSE models used early L-Jet Bosch injection in the mid- 70s. Came with both single carb 2 barrel Zenith Carbs (Commodore B GS), Dual Solex Setups (Commodore A GSE and Manta TE2800) and possibly other combinations (Not familar with NON-Commodore applications) if memory serves. The 3.0L (12V) used Bosch early L-Jet injection to 1984 and the later (Non-resistance injectors) L-jet to about 1989. The 3.0L (24V) used Bosch K-Jet (Senator and Monza GSE Motor I believe) The 3.9L (Bitter motor) was a stroked 2.8L.. yes a stroked 2.8L not 3.0L, not sure why but thats what I was told. I think its because they bored the 2.8L Instead of the 3.0L because of smaller water passages allowed larger boring or something. It used the later L-Jet and had unique pistons, crank and rods. Thats what I remember from when I had my Bitter and rebuilt its motors. Last edited by tekenaar; 10-03-2007 at 01:28 PM.. |
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'71 Opel Kadett 4 Door 36D
Blown motor = EV Conversion? |
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#4 (permalink) |
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4246 Post Club
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G'Day Michael
Answer from someone in the same city as you!
The difference between the 2.8L and 3.0L six-cylinder motors is much the same as between 1.9L and 2.0L four-cylinder motors (1.9L x 1 1/2 = 2.8L and 2.0L X 1 1/2 = 3.0L). The bore size only is difference - 2.8L is 92mm bore and 3.0L is 95mm bore. The outer dimensions of the cylinder block are identical and everything bolts up - the only differences can be the intake ports position - like 1.9/2.0L motors and 2.2/2.4L - depending if one motor is 1983 or earlier and the other 1984 or later. You can probably bore a 2.8L out to 3.0L just by using 3.0L pistons - or Chevy pistons ... just like the 1.9L four-cylinder motor ... and fit Chevy valves into the head ... the same. 1.9L four-cylinder pistons can be used too - they are 93mm STD - so are a nice 'first oversize' for the 2.8L six ... Last edited by GTJIM; 10-03-2007 at 10:34 PM.. Reason: Added Info |
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GTJim
Opel Owner since last Century! Copyright © 2000-2008 J D Henry All Rights Reserved |
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#5 (permalink) | |
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"The Jägermeister"
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The largest engine in the Monza was the 3.0-12V with 180HP (depending on the market, the HP number might be slightly different). Dieter |
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#6 (permalink) | |
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Cunning Linguist
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Opel 4-cyl CIH: 1.5 (82.5mm x 69.8mm = 1492cc) ; 1.7 (88mm x 69.8mm = 1698cc) ; 1.9 (93mm x 69.8mm = 1897cc) ; 2.0 (95mm x 69.8mm = 1979cc) ; 2.2 (95mm x 77.5mm = 2197cc) ; 2.4 (95mm x 85mm = 2410cc) . . . all Opel CIH (4/6) engines have used common bores of 82.5mm (1.5), 88mm (1.7/2.6), 92mm (2.8), 93mm (1.9) and 95mm (2.0/2.2/2.4) respectively and all CIH (4/6) engines, except the 2.2 (77.5mm), 2.4 (85mm) and the Bitter/Mantzel 3.9 (90.5mm), used a stroke of 69.8mm. Last edited by tekenaar; 10-04-2007 at 12:04 PM.. Reason: Erick's input |
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1960: ♥ '61 Rekord PII 1.7 3S 3.9 ♥ '69 Kadett LS 'sprint' 1.9 3A 3.18 1970: ♥ '70 GT 1.9 4S 3.44 ♥ '72 GT 2.2SSD 5S 3.44 ♥ '72 GT 2.4FI 5S 3.44P ♥ '73 GT 1.9FI 4S 3.44 ♥ '75 1900 1.9FI 4S 3.44 1980: ♥ '85 Bitter SC 3.9FI 5S 3.44P |
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#8 (permalink) |
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Detroit,where my home was
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2.2 litre straight six 82.5 x 69.8 = 2239 cc
2.5 litre straight six 87.0 x 69.8 = 2490 cc 2.6 litre straight six 88.8 x 69.8 = 2594 cc [sorry Otto] 1.6 litre straight four 85.0 x 69.8 = 1584 cc Last edited by 2 Fast 4 U; 10-03-2007 at 06:19 PM.. |
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Groetjes, Greetings, Grüße:
Only built from 1970 until 1975 ![]() Daily driver: '72 Ascona 2.0 Luxus Automatic |
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#10 (permalink) |
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Idiot with a GT
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This may be off-topic, and I may incur the wrath of the mods, but I would like to complement you guys on your knowledge of Opels.
I continue to marvel at the wealth of knowledge contained in your heads and others who have posted here. I rarely need to ask questions. I find out all I need to know by reading your posts. Thank you for sharing and helping. Thanks to Gary, too, for doing this site. |
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The difference between your butt and your soul is that God only has to save your soul once. - David Zielinski
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#11 (permalink) | |
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Member
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this 28E CIH is quite of a weird bird among the CIH family: bore is only 92mm this makes a PITA to find parts like rings, injection is the old type D Jetronic (nothing to do with the later L/LE), the head is very special with injectors directly mounted on the head, so inlet ports are a few mm lower than a casual 1.9/2.0 head, manifold gasket is therefore specific. I just love this car (I have 5 of these), but consider to collect lots of parts to be on the safe side, or convert it to a complete 30E setup (very easy). HTH, Hiro Last edited by Hiro; 10-03-2007 at 06:20 PM.. |
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#12 (permalink) | |
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Member
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head, camshaft, exhaust valves, pistons are specific. IMO the weirdest part of the 28E is the distributor: it contains a second set of twin points that triggers the injectors, better not have any problem with this distributor, because it's very rare even on Ebay.de! HTH, Hiro more infos on the D Jet here (french, sorry!): DJectronic Last edited by Hiro; 10-03-2007 at 06:22 PM.. |
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#14 (permalink) | |
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Opelitis since 1984
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Also FYI.. Chuck Jordan who designed the Commodore B Is looking for one to import as well.. I had one, but Todd at Opels Unlimited has it now and its in really bad shape. Irony is that I brought it to California to save it because I couldnt find parts at the time and didnt want it to rust. |
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'71 Opel Kadett 4 Door 36D
Blown motor = EV Conversion? |
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#16 (permalink) | ||
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Cunning Linguist
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Hmmmmm . . .
I know this is used for both displacement taxing purposes and displacement limits in racing classes . . . |
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1960: ♥ '61 Rekord PII 1.7 3S 3.9 ♥ '69 Kadett LS 'sprint' 1.9 3A 3.18 1970: ♥ '70 GT 1.9 4S 3.44 ♥ '72 GT 2.2SSD 5S 3.44 ♥ '72 GT 2.4FI 5S 3.44P ♥ '73 GT 1.9FI 4S 3.44 ♥ '75 1900 1.9FI 4S 3.44 1980: ♥ '85 Bitter SC 3.9FI 5S 3.44P |
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#17 (permalink) |
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Cunning Linguist
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Hmmmm . . . part 2
. . . that made me curious about my 83mm bore listing for the '68 only, 1.5 4-cyl engine . . . oops, it's actually 82.5mm like your 2.3 (sorry) straight six above.
Last edited by tekenaar; 10-04-2007 at 05:47 PM.. |
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1960: ♥ '61 Rekord PII 1.7 3S 3.9 ♥ '69 Kadett LS 'sprint' 1.9 3A 3.18 1970: ♥ '70 GT 1.9 4S 3.44 ♥ '72 GT 2.2SSD 5S 3.44 ♥ '72 GT 2.4FI 5S 3.44P ♥ '73 GT 1.9FI 4S 3.44 ♥ '75 1900 1.9FI 4S 3.44 1980: ♥ '85 Bitter SC 3.9FI 5S 3.44P |