CNC Header Flanges

[neuropel]

OK...so put me down for just one stainless flange at this time, and we can re-evaluate the manifold issue at a later date.
Thanks!
Todd K.

[Tru-Craft]

Originally Posted by Gumby I am only running 25% stepover @ full DOC on the portions of the toolpath where it is running that fast (pocketing) to give it plenty of room/time to eject the chips and get a good surface finish. Full width slots will be 12ipm @ .472 DOC but in truth I could run it nearly as fast with a helical tool path. I seem to remember you have a larger mill than mine. If the .371" tool can't take the heat I'll simply swap in one of my more expensive tools which are designed to be run that hard (variable everything geometry).

The full depth/width cut is the only place the 3/8" EM will have trouble. Like you said, getting the chips out of the way is the problem. Mild steel 1018 is nice to machine.
At 25% step over you will be fine.
You know what your doing!

I don't claim to be a production type machinist, most of my work is low volume production, fixturing, tooling and prototypes. Mostly 2-1/2 axis CNC work, a little 3-4 axis.
So max material removal is not as important to my type work, but time is money!
Check out my Temp Website.
Tru-Craft Machining Inc.
Started in my garage and grew slowly over the years.
Still small, and I like it that way. It's like my garage only with more tool's to play with.
Lyle

[Gumby]

Originally Posted by Tru-Craft The full depth/width cut is the only place the 3/8" EM will have trouble. Like you said, getting the chips out of the way is the problem. Mild steel 1018 is nice to machine. At 25% step over you will be fine. You know what your doing! I don't claim to be a production type machinist, most of my work is low volume production, fixturing, tooling and prototypes. Mostly 2-1/2 axis CNC work, a little 3-4 axis. So max material removal is not as important to my type work, but time is money! Check out my Temp Website. Tru-Craft Machining Inc. Started in my garage and grew slowly over the years. Still small, and I like it that way. It's like my garage only with more tool's to play with. Lyle

lol yeah, if I ran 30ipm at full depth of cut on my machine I'd have serious chatter issue. It's A36 hot rolled and 304SS (required modified cutting speeds/depth) that I'll be cutting.

I don't really claim to be a machinist, production or otherwise, since I don't feed my family cutting metal. It's just one of the many side "gigs" I do out of my home.

Yikes! I must say you have a great deal more equipment than I! I'm not a big fan of Haas but a VMC is certainly better to have than say a Bridgeport knee mill conversion! What year is your VF-1? I don't know how busy you keep your machines but you have everything needed to make the fully cnc'd turbo header I was talking about earlier

Take a look at the Cell-Con H15 HMC, that is what I am looking to replace my little baby mill with (one that is a few years older)

[Gumby]

Well ladies and gentlemen, parts are running (slowly because I don't want me neighbors to kill me for machining in the middle of the night). Because of the x axis limitations of my machine it is going to be a 4 operation job, with all critical dimensions done in one setup so there is no worry about any of them not fitting correctly. This means I'll be cutting each one with the first setup, then the second, so on and so forth. What this means is that none of them will be ready until the last operation gets started on the first part. I've already verified the model to match the 1.9 and 2.4 bolt and port locations. The only thing that might cause interference is near the thermostat, but if that occurs there is enough material in that area to create clearance.

So far I have two serious buyers for the mill, with an expectation these parts will be done within a week running them in my "off" time. The SS flanges will be the last to come off the machine because they require mild modification to the cutting parameters (slower sfm, greater depth of cut, etc). Obviously the sale has made getting these flanges done a very pressing matter which I'm sure everyone is happy about.

This week I'll get the shipping quotes out and should be able to ship within 10 days from tomorrow for anyone paying via paypal. A check or postal money order are preferred (no fees) but paypal will be an acceptable form of payment.

Something I just want to say to the community. I know there are a lot of great ideas out there on what we can do to improve our aging cars... lets not let "custom" be a reason not to get it done. I hope everyone will be satisfied with the item they receive as at some point in the future I intend to make a few other items for my own car that I'll certainly make available to anyone interested.

[Gumby]

Shipping costs will be a Flat rate of $15 for everyone in the US. If you are outside of the US I'll be sending you a shipping quote. I read back over the thread and I have one more order than I have material for. So for those of you who have already confirmed that you are interested, consider yourself fine, there are just a couple of people who haven't replied back yet to let me know they are still interested.

I also think I've come up with a modular way to machine (fully cnc'd) a turbo manifold. At this point it is just a matter of whether or not my mill sells. If it doesn't then I'll be doing some modifications so it will handle SS a little better (more hp, improved low rpm torque).

[BQS4]

Just let us know when we need to send the money.

[Gumby]

Originally Posted by BQS4 Just let us know when we need to send the money.

You can start sending them now. I'll be shipping in the next couple of weeks as I get them done.

PM me how you want to pay and I'll get you the appropriate information (shipping address, paypal address, etc)

[Gumby]

I've only recieved PMs from three members indicating how they intend to pay.

The last of the mild steel is going to be done today. I'll start the SS as soon as I get home.

[Gumby]

Mild steel are about ready to go. I am deburring them and surfacing them down to the correct thickness tonight.

The bad news:
The mill is off to its new owner this Sunday morning and I don't think I'll be able to get all of the stainless done before then.

The good news:
I went and looked at a much larger mill today. I put money down for a deposit on it and will have it to my place with in one week. It needs a phase convert to run at my place so it may be a week or two until I can get it powered up and making parts.

For those of you who have already paid for a stainless steel flange I can refund you the money until I get them finished if a few week wait is going to be a problem. For everyone else who wanted a mild steel flange they will be shipping the beginning of next week.

To Hiro: I will have you a shipping quote Monday evening.

See pictures: unsurfaced flange in the picture to illustrate the fit of the flange.

[BQS4]

Gumby;
I have no problem waiting. When you get your new machine set-up, that's cool with me.

[Hiro]

Originally Posted by Gumby Mild steel are about ready to go. I am deburring them and surfacing them down to the correct thickness tonight. The bad news: The mill is off to its new owner this Sunday morning and I don't think I'll be able to get all of the stainless done before then. The good news: I went and looked at a much larger mill today. I put money down for a deposit on it and will have it to my place with in one week. It needs a phase convert to run at my place so it may be a week or two until I can get it powered up and making parts. For those of you who have already paid for a stainless steel flange I can refund you the money until I get them finished if a few week wait is going to be a problem. For everyone else who wanted a mild steel flange they will be shipping the beginning of next week. To Hiro: I will have you a shipping quote Monday evening. See pictures: unsurfaced flange in the picture to illustrate the fit of the flange.

very nice!
Hiro

[Tru-Craft]

Nice work on the flanges!
Your new mill sounds perfect, the extra HP and rigidity will make future jobs easier.
Make sure the phase converter is 20%+ larger than rated HP of machine. The rotory generator type is the only one that generates a true 3rd leg.
I don't use them anymore, but they work great.
Make sure all power legs produce equal voltage within 10%.

[Gumby]

Originally Posted by Tru-Craft Nice work on the flanges! Your new mill sounds perfect, the extra HP and rigidity will make future jobs easier. Make sure the phase converter is 20%+ larger than rated HP of machine. The rotory generator type is the only one that generates a true 3rd leg. I don't use them anymore, but they work great. Make sure all power legs produce equal voltage within 10%.

Thank you.

It's an older machine with a Fanuc controller but I am really excited about what it can do (450ipm rapids, box ways). The best thing is that it comes with a couple of dozen tool holders . I'm going with a phase converter that is 50% larger so I can run a compressor off of it. The manufacturer recommends not to exceed 60% duty cycle.

[Tru-Craft]

So did you buy the machine?
Fanuc makes a great control, very dependable.
Tooling is sometimes more expensive than the machine!!

The 450ipm is fast for box ways! For a long straight rapid move it is OK. I always rapid at 50%. Full rapid on short moves beats the crap out of the motors, ball screws, everything......
My machines have to last me another 20 years.

Things to do:
*Level the machine.
*Remove way covers and check seals for leaks.
*Make sure oiler is pumping way lube on the ball screws and box ways. Not just showing pressure!
*Air supply water free and oiled.
*3 phase power equal on all legs.
*Push the button and make chips!
Lyle

[Gumby]

Originally Posted by Tru-Craft So did you buy the machine? Fanuc makes a great control, very dependable. Tooling is sometimes more expensive than the machine!! The 450ipm is fast for box ways! For a long straight rapid move it is OK. I always rapid at 50%. Full rapid on short moves beats the crap out of the motors, ball screws, everything...... My machines have to last me another 20 years. Things to do: *Level the machine. *Remove way covers and check seals for leaks. *Make sure oiler is pumping way lube on the ball screws and box ways. Not just showing pressure! *Air supply water free and oiled. *3 phase power equal on all legs. *Push the button and make chips! Lyle

I did buy it. Turns out it is a 5 ton machine not 3.5 like I was told. The ways are in immaculate condition, so the iron is in great shape. 450ipm is normal for most box way machines of this caliber from that era. They make box way machines today that move in excess of 2000ipm. So it's old tech, no doubt, but it does have a double closed loop feedback system. I was mistaken it isn't iron from Taiwan, it's made by a quality Japanese manufacturer.

It definitely makes the old machine look like a toy. It has a 26 year old controller (think 80's computers) but it has a significantly more sophisticated feedback system, more than 5 times the torque in every axis servo (almost 20lb/ft @ 1600rpms), with 5 times the spindle hp with twice the rpm range, and it is 10 times the overall size of the previous machine. The air operated tool changer is dead simple and really nice to have!

The only thing it won't do that I'd like is rigid tapping but that is no big deal since it came with two floating tap holders (bt40). It actually came with 54 tool holders of various vintage. About half of them look like they were purchased when the machine was new and the other half are mostly Command brand tool holders.

I sell end mills on the size, I have roughly 250 carbide tools on hand, so tooling won't be an issue

Right now I am waiting for the rotary phase converter to get here so I can power it up and get those plates cut. I decided not to send out the mild steel because I wasn't getting a satisfactory surface finish with the old machine. Because there are mating surfaces I think this is pretty important so that will get done on the new machine .

Edit: Phase converter will be here Monday.

[davegt27]

nice

I wrote me first "G" code a few weeks ago

my dream is to get a CNC machine these things are bad A$$

the instructor said something about needing 8" of concrete under the things since they are so heavy

Davegt27

[Gumby]

Originally Posted by davegt27 nice I wrote me first "G" code a few weeks ago my dream is to get a CNC machine these things are bad A$$ the instructor said something about needing 8" of concrete under the things since they are so heavy Davegt27

Nice!

I think that really depends on the size of the machine... 1000lbs and 10,000lbs are different in there needs compared to a 60,000-200,000lb machine. They come in all shapes and sizes! Bare min for a 10k machine is probably 6". You can get away with as little as 4" but with that much weight concentrated in one area you are likely to get cracks over time.

I think swiss lathes with live tooling and offset machining are by far the single most useful machine you could own.

[Gumby]

Wiring started today. I'll be focusing on this every day after work this week. My goal is to be making chips by next weekend.

Sorry for the long wait everyone!

[Gumby]

The mill has power! "It's aliiiivvvveeee!" the controller isn't happy because the z axis isn't connected yet. I have to get someone to help me lift it, it's about 80lbs and 8ft up in the air, BUT otherwise everything powered up just fine. I'm ordering an 8" kurt vise for it and I'll be making some softjaws for the flanges. The mild steel flanges I can program via the controller but the SS flanges are going to be a little bit out while I get the fixture setup and the controller programmed. I'll be hanging on to any fixtures or programs I make for opel parts so if I or anyone else needs the parts made again it will be a simple task.

[Gumby]

Turns out the controller isn't happy because of an overvoltage alarm on the spindle drive. Line to line voltage is in the 250-260v range. It seems these older controllers can only tolerate +10% on the voltage, anything above that causes error LEDs to light up

I'm currently seeking the knowledge of machinists who are a lot more knowledgable in fanuc systems than I. Two solutions exist at this point. 1 I can get the instructions on how to wire the multi-tap transformer for 240v instead of 220v or 2 I purchase a seperate transformer and step the voltage down to a useable range.

It's been a frustrating 2 weeks.

[wrench459]

Originally Posted by Gumby Turns out the controller isn't happy because of an overvoltage alarm on the spindle drive. Line to line voltage is in the 250-260v range. It seems these older controllers can only tolerate +10% on the voltage, anything above that causes error LEDs to light up I'm currently seeking the knowledge of machinists who are a lot more knowledgable in fanuc systems than I. Two solutions exist at this point. 1 I can get the instructions on how to wire the multi-tap transformer for 240v instead of 220v or 2 I purchase a seperate transformer and step the voltage down to a useable range. It's been a frustrating 2 weeks.

If I recall correctly many years ago we had a similar problem with the crank grinder. Funny thing was is was not a over load but under load. I'm thinking that we changed the phasing....to a delta current crud I can't recall.No thats not right we had to get a special line installed

[tomking]

If you have a multi tap transformer feeding the unit already, that is the route to take. It isnt that hard to find the right taps.

Originally Posted by Gumby Turns out the controller isn't happy because of an overvoltage alarm on the spindle drive. Line to line voltage is in the 250-260v range. It seems these older controllers can only tolerate +10% on the voltage, anything above that causes error LEDs to light up I'm currently seeking the knowledge of machinists who are a lot more knowledgable in fanuc systems than I. Two solutions exist at this point. 1 I can get the instructions on how to wire the multi-tap transformer for 240v instead of 220v or 2 I purchase a seperate transformer and step the voltage down to a useable range. It's been a frustrating 2 weeks.

[Geek]

In a DC current, you could just put in a voltage divider - just a resistor to ground before the line in, the extra voltage is turned into waste heat. Can that be done with AC? (Sorry, I'm in the midst of learning electronics theory).

[Tru-Craft]

Originally Posted by Gumby Turns out the controller isn't happy because of an overvoltage alarm on the spindle drive. Line to line voltage is in the 250-260v range. It seems these older controllers can only tolerate +10% on the voltage, anything above that causes error LEDs to light up I'm currently seeking the knowledge of machinists who are a lot more knowledgable in fanuc systems than I. Two solutions exist at this point. 1 I can get the instructions on how to wire the multi-tap transformer for 240v instead of 220v or 2 I purchase a seperate transformer and step the voltage down to a useable range. It's been a frustrating 2 weeks.

Missed your post.
If you have a multi tap transformer that will work.
Not sure what supplied voltage is at your shop, but mine is:
A delta Y setup.
From line 1 to ground is 122
From line 2 to ground is 224 high leg.
From line 3 to ground is 123

Between the 3 lines, voltage is about 247 to 250 a little high, but my machines work OK.

With line voltage coming into the primary side of the transformer, check the taps on the secondary coil for proper voltage 220-240 is fine, lower is always safer.
If that doesn't work, look up "Buck-Boost Transformers" at MSC.
A 3 phase 256 to 240volt would work.
I'm not an electrical guy but have enough knowledge to get by!
Good luck.
Lyle

[Gumby]

Wrench, you are probably thinking of an isolation transformer to convert Wye to Delta 3 phase.

Geek, transformers are used to step up or down the voltage with AC power.

tomking, I am not sure it is that simple. Supposedly it can be wired for 200-520v input BUT instructions only cover 200v, 220v, 380v, 480v, 520v. Nothing about 240v input. Typically 240v service has normally lost enough voltage by the time it gets to the machinery to fall within the usable input voltage of the 220v wiring but my voltage is coming in at too high of a voltage for that to happen. 246v for L1 and L2 is higher than the allowable 10 percent variation that the controller can handle.

Tru-craft, line to ground is 124.5v on L1 and L2, 230v on L3. Line to line on L1 and L2 is 246v and to L3 is 261v. All voltages are too high. Balancing the RPC won't get L1 or L2 to drop their voltage. Several suggestions have been made, one put a load on the phase converter to get the voltage to drop, balance the RPC to get the voltage on leg three down (I do not think this is entirely the issue), or buy a transformer and step the voltage down to the 220v range. There is no point in going to the effort to purchase a 3 phase transformer when I can step it down on the single phase side of things.