Headgaskets

[wrench459]

Found this today while researching a 40 pound turbo car.
Phuzion Gaskets
Sounds interesting

[jeff denton]

Well we just have to get a Phuzion head gasket for our Opels and give her a try.
Providing of course that it costs less than the NAPA one...
But seriously, I'd bite, I love high tech.
I know what's coming next. A group buy to get them to make a gasket for us. Fine, I'll take a couple or few.
But, hey, I've never had a head gasket fail. Find us some bolts that won't break. That's where I'd start.
Might need to get back into that. We have a new job for my car. It's called the Idaho 200 Outlaw Compact Race. It's cool, just found out about it and was invited. Rules encourage (thus competition demands) a full-out race car motor under 2.4 liters if it has eight valves, or up to 2.0 if it has sixteen. More specifically, block casting must be OEM, head casting must be OEM, but any internal parts may be used. Get this- crank trigger and MSD controls are allowed. 500 cfm carb w/o choke horn OK. Any trans, any diff. Fabricated upper A-arms approved. Hmmm....
Alas, too late this year. But next year!
Aw, shucks, I went off topic again.
Who will spearhead getting this gasket made for us?
Bob, where is ARP with the next run of head bolts?
Where can I get a 2.2 crank?

[2 Fast 4 U]

Originally Posted by jeff denton .......Where can I get a 2.2 crank?

Going to fit it in a 1.9??

[tekenaar]

Originally Posted by jeff denton Originally Posted by wrench459 Found this today while researching a 40 pound turbo car. Phuzion Gaskets Sounds interesting Well we just have to get a Phuzion head gasket for our Opels and give her a try. Providing of course that it costs less than the NAPA one... But seriously, I'd bite, I love high tech. I know what's coming next. A group buy to get them to make a gasket for us. Fine, I'll take a couple or few. But, hey, I've never had a head gasket fail. Find us some bolts that won't break. That's where I'd start. Might need to get back into that. We have a new job for my car. It's called the Idaho 200 Outlaw Compact Race. It's cool, just found out about it and was invited. Rules encourage (thus competition demands) a full-out race car motor under 2.4 liters if it has eight valves, or up to 2.0 if it has sixteen. More specifically, block casting must be OEM, head casting must be OEM, but any internal parts may be used. Get this- crank trigger and MSD controls are allowed. 500 cfm carb w/o choke horn OK. Any trans, any diff. Fabricated upper A-arms approved. Hmmm.... Alas, too late this year. But next year! Aw, shucks, I went off topic again. Who will spearhead getting this gasket made for us? Bob, where is ARP with the next run of head bolts? Where can I get a 2.2 crank?

. . . compressed gasket thickness is .051" though, whereas Fel-Pro's 21139 PT gasket is .040", 27.5% less, important consideration for N/A (naturally aspirated) engine's CR.

Looks like a good idea for a boosted, turbo/blower, engine though . . .

[wrench459]

Hold on to your hats.
If the shop becomes a dealer...Cost 275.00 List price around 500.00 dollars each..
But wait that price is for American iron...They'll be extra charges for custom gaskets. So don't hold your breath on this one. (read no way in beep)I just thought is was a cool idea. No more o-ringing the head\block and a reusable gasket.

[jeff denton]

Originally Posted by 2 Fast 4 U Going to fit it in a 1.9??

Absolutely. The racers here tell me the 2.2. stroke is the best! Pin height on the pistons will have to go up a bit to use the Crower 2.3 rods. Shouldn't be a problem. Should it? Just thinking out loud again.
Otto, that extra thickness is a good thing. Means the piston has to stick up higher than ever, leaving the top ring up higher, too. Could reduce the amount of block milling.

[wrench459]

Originally Posted by jeff denton Absolutely. The racers here tell me the 2.2. stroke is the best!

Well almost

Originally Posted by jeff denton Pin height on the pistons will have to go up a bit to use the Crower 2.3 rods. Shouldn't be a problem. Should it?

The 2.0 and 2.3 rods can make different combos I tend to track rod ratios

Originally Posted by jeff denton Just thinking out loud again. Otto, that extra thickness is a good thing. Means the piston has to stick up higher than ever, leaving the top ring up higher, too. Could reduce the amount of block milling.

No I've never let the piston come out of the hole by much .. yeah right

[2 Fast 4 U]

Originally Posted by jeff denton Absolutely. The racers here tell me the 2.2. stroke is the best! Pin height on the pistons will have to go up a bit to use the Crower 2.3 rods. Shouldn't be a problem. Should it? Just thinking out loud again. Otto, that extra thickness is a good thing. Means the piston has to stick up higher than ever, leaving the top ring up higher, too. Could reduce the amount of block milling.

Are you going to give a full report on what you have to do and change to have every thing fit??

I'm thinking of doing the same, I have a 1.9 with high compression pistons and I have a 2.2 that I can use. I allready have talked with Otto about this, and the more input I can get the better.

What I'm planning is:
change the 19 crank shaft for the 2.2
using the stock 2.2 head.
because of the stroke difference I need to remove 3.85 mm from the piston top and redo the valve clearance on the top of the piston,

I'm stopping now this is going waaaayyyy off topic

[2 Fast 4 U]

Originally Posted by wrench459 Originally Posted by jeff denton Absolutely. The racers here tell me the 2.2. stroke is the best! Well almost

What is the best than??

[jeff denton]

Originally Posted by 2 Fast 4 U What I'm planing is: change the 19 crank shaft for the 2.2 using the stock 2.2 head. because of the stroke diference I need to remove 3.85 mm from the piston top and redo the valve clearence on the top of the piston, I'm stopping now this is going waaaayyyy off topic

Yes we are off topic, sorry, maybe a moderator would like to move some of this to a new thread and give it a catchy title.

I don't know enough about the 2.2 head to recommend it yet. I'd go 1.6 if possible, 1.5 if necessary.
The stock pistons aren't worth the effort. Start over with some that have the correct pin height, less weight, correct ring width, and grooves for spiral locks. Of course we would be using good new rods that are the longest length possible. Venolia pistons don't cost that much more than OGTS stock replacement, and we'll want light pins and Total Seal rings anyway.
Thus, all we need that is stock would be the head gasket, hey, we're back on topic?
Oh, but we'll want roller rockers. Dang. Here we go again. I give up.
I'm guessing the best way to come up with the 2.2 stroke is to modify the 1.9 crank.

[RallyBob]

Originally Posted by jeff denton I don't know enough about the 2.2 head to recommend it yet. I'd go 1.6 if possible, 1.5 if necessary.

Well, one nice thing about the 2.2 head is that as-cast with standard valves, it flows almost the same as an all-out race-prepped 1.5/1.6 head. It has lots more potential when modified. Stock 1.5 head, about 80 cfm. Stock 2.2 head, 122 cfm. Race-prepped 1.5, about 124-125 cfm. Race-prepped 2.2 head, 145-150 cfm.

I like the 2.2 cranks because they're the lightest of the bunch (about 34 lbs), while a 1.9/2.0 crank is usually 36-36.25 lbs, and a 2.4 crank is 43 lbs.

With some offset grinding of the 2.2 crank, some long rods, and a bored out 2.0/2.2 block, you can build your own 2.4 litre engine with a far better rod ratio and lower piston speed, and about 10 lbs less rotating mass than a factory CN24 engine.

Bob

[2 Fast 4 U]

Originally Posted by RallyBob Well, one nice thing about the 2.2 head is that as-cast with standard valves, it flows almost the same as an all-out race-prepped 1.5/1.6 head. It has lots more potential when modified. Stock 1.5 head, about 80 cfm. Stock 2.2 head, 122 cfm. Race-prepped 1.5, about 124-125 cfm. Race-prepped 2.2 head, 145-150 cfm. I like the 2.2 cranks because they're the lightest of the bunch (about 34 lbs), while a 1.9/2.0 crank is usually 36-36.25 lbs, and a 2.4 crank is 43 lbs. Bob

Not only that but the 2.2 head I got has hardened valve seats, just what I want to use with the fuel [LPG] I use
So if I want to go stock on parts the 2.2 head is ok on a 1.9 block, and what head gasket do I use the 1.9 or the 2.2??

[Hiro]

Originally Posted by RallyBob Well, one nice thing about the 2.2 head is that as-cast with standard valves, it flows almost the same as an all-out race-prepped 1.5/1.6 head. It has lots more potential when modified. Stock 1.5 head, about 80 cfm. Stock 2.2 head, 122 cfm. Race-prepped 1.5, about 124-125 cfm. Race-prepped 2.2 head, 145-150 cfm. I like the 2.2 cranks because they're the lightest of the bunch (about 34 lbs), while a 1.9/2.0 crank is usually 36-36.25 lbs, and a 2.4 crank is 43 lbs. With some offset grinding of the 2.2 crank, some long rods, and a bored out 2.0/2.2 block, you can build your own 2.4 litre engine with a far better rod ratio and lower piston speed, and about 10 lbs less rotating mass than a factory CN24 engine. Bob

hehe we're following parallel routes Bob,
here is one cheap setup I will try one of these days:
2.2 crank offset grinded to 81mm stroke,
BMW M42 steel rods c-c 140mm,
Wiseco Yamaha ATV piston cd28mm,
97mmx81mm = 2394cc
rod ratio = 1.73
Hiro

[wrench459]

Originally Posted by RallyBob . Stock 1.5 head, about 80 cfm. Stock 2.2 head, 122 cfm. Race-prepped 1.5, about 124-125 cfm. Race-prepped 2.2 head, 145-150 cfm. Bob

Bob the numbers aren't adding up for me. I know you're using a flow bench. Somehow I'll need to to get a correction factor for the way I measure versus your method.
Apples and oranges again
Lets see here ..the headgasket still has to do its job
Ok the mods are happy right still on topic right?
Just some arm chair racing that's all.. some are more serious than others. And I'm well out of my league here.

[jeff denton]

Well Okay, there ya go! 2.2 head it is, then! Funny, I never really explored much about the 2.2 since it wouldn't be legal in my car, but, now that we're thinking about playing a new game with new FUN rules, anything goes! Trouble is, 2.2 stuff is rare on this side of the world, huh?
Yeah we're bench racing. Silly us. But you never know, something real could come of all this.
Actually I'm just hanging out waiting for a friend to stop by. From Canada, eh? He was at the waterslide complex when I talked to him a couple hours ago. Oh, he's your friend, too! A member of our gt.com is finally visiting Speedway GT HQ. And the Kokanee Gold is cold, as you would expect...

[2 Fast 4 U]

Originally Posted by 2 Fast 4 U Not only that but the 2.2 head I got has hardend valve seats, just what I want to use with the fuel [LPG] I use So if I want to go stock on parts the 2.2 head is ok on a 1.9 blok, and what head gasket do I use the 1.9 or the 2.2??

what head gasket do I use the 1.9 or the 2.2??

[opelwasp]

Originally Posted by 2 Fast 4 U what head gasket do I use the 1.9 or the 2.2??

The 2.0L gasket.

It is the same as the 2.2L

[tekenaar]

Originally Posted by 2 Fast 4 U what head gasket do I use the 1.9 or the 2.2??

Erick,
Head gasket usage depends on the block's bore, not the head used. So, as already said . . . up to 94.5mm bore (93mm+1.5mm/.060"), use 1.9 head gasket; 95mm/+ bores, use 2.0/2.2/2.4 head gasket (same one).

[2 Fast 4 U]

Originally Posted by tekenaar Erick, Head gasket usage depends on the block's bore, not the head used. So, as already said . . . up to 94.5mm (+.060") bore, 1.9 head gasket; 95mm/+ bores, 2.0/2.2/2.4 head gasket (same).

So if I use A 2.2 head on a 1.9 block I should use a 1.9 head gasket, right?

[tekenaar]

Originally Posted by 2 Fast 4 U Originally Posted by tekenaar Erick, Head gasket usage depends on the block's bore, not the head used. So, as already said . . . up to 94.5mm (+.060") bore, 1.9 head gasket; 95mm/+ bores, 2.0/2.2/2.4 head gasket (same). So if I use A 2.2 head on a 1.9 block I should use a 1.9 head gasket, right?

Yes, as long as 1.9 block is NOT overbored more than 1.5mm (.060"), you can use the 1.9 head gasket! . . . 2mm (.080") overbore is 95mm, standard bore for 2.0/2.2/2.4 engines and must use that head gasket, OK!

[wrench459]

Originally Posted by 2 Fast 4 U What is the best than??

The more I get into this topic (rod ratios) the more I'm liking 1.7-1.9 ratios.
Look at the old muscle cars 283 1.9,289 1.78,302 1.69,350 1.63 but with the 6 inch rod it comes out to 1.72,351 Cleveland 1.65, 427 SOHC 1.73,and the street hemi comes in at 1.83.
With a slight increase in stroke and a tad longer rod along with a 95mm bore, 2.0 headgasket. The displacement comes in a little under the 2.2 mark.

[2 Fast 4 U]

Originally Posted by tekenaar Yes, as long as 1.9 block is NOT overbored more than 1.5mm (.060"), you can use the 1.9 head gasket! . . . 2mm (.080") overbore is 95mm, standard bore for 2.0/2.2/2.4 engines and must use that head gasket, OK!

Oki doki