2.2 crank ID query . . .

[tekenaar]

I need to make sure that a crank that Andreas received for me in Berlin is actually a 2.2 which I paid for about a year ago.

Long story short, went looking for a 2.2 crank for a project here and was put in contact with this guy who had one . . . so he said. Asked Andreas in Berlin to transfer the money for the crank and shipping to US to this guy and finally had to resort to sending the cops after him.

They really frown on not delivering goods paid for by bank to bank transfers over there. Anyway, the guy contacted Andreas to tell him he would send "another" to him, not exactly what I paid for, but better than nothing. This time, under duress from the Polizei, a crank and some other pieces arrived at Andreas' house a few days later.

Since it took almost a year, with little contact from him after the payment was made, to deliver the crank, I asked Andreas to check it out and make sure he didn't just send junk . . . or, when I thought about it, just send a 1.9/2.0 (69.8mm stroke) crank.

Andreas sent some very high resolution pics of the crank to me yesterday, two of which have a metric tape measure on them for reference. Did some calculation based on one of those pics, and it looks like he sent a 1.9 crank . . . measurements weren't even close to being a 2.2!

That brings me to my "other 2.2 crank IDs" question . . . are there any markings forged into the crank that would definitively ID it as a 2.2 (77.5mm stroke) vs. a 1.9 (69.8 stroke)? Just want to exhaust all possibilities before we send the "Polizei" out again!

I've attached my pic why I think it's just a 1.9 crank that was sent . . .

[oldopelguy]

Otto I just scoured my 2.2 crank end to end and there's nothing on it I can see that signifies any difference from a regular 1.9 crank, except the stroke. Maybe one of the guys knows something I'm not seeing, though.

[hrcollinsjr]

Originally Posted by oldopelguy Otto I just scoured my 2.2 crank end to end and there's nothing on it I can see that signifies any difference from a regular 1.9 crank, except the stroke. Maybe one of the guys knows something I'm not seeing, though.

Do they weigh the same? I seem to recall an Opel expert saying the 2.2 crank was lighter than the 1.9/2.0 crank.

Harold

[RallyBob]

IMO, that is a photo of a 2.2 crank. Note the 'scalloped' or undercut area at the rod throws and at the counterweights. 1.9 cranks are not undercut in these areas. Hence the lighter weight of the 2.2 crank (34 vs. 36.25 lbs.).

Also, the front crank pulley bolt is larger than that used on the 1.9 crank. Head diameter is 22 mm vs. 19 mm, however I can't remember the thread pitch and diameter (but it is larger).

HTH,
Bob

[apassens]

Hi there. A photo comparision of a 2.2 and 1.9 crank are to be found on the hecktriebler site. (Das Opel Hecktriebler Forum - Hilfe mit Mitglied Hans-Peter Hintz Kontakt . . .)
The corpus delicti should be a 2.2 due to the counter weight differences.

[hrcollinsjr]

Originally Posted by RallyBob Hence the lighter weight of the 2.2 crank (34 vs. 36.25 lbs.).HTH, Bob

Glad you remembered what the Opel expert said about the weight. I don't always remember everything I'm told.

Harold

[Hiro]

Originally Posted by tekenaar I need to make sure that a crank that Andreas received for me in Berlin is actually a 2.2 which I paid for about a year ago. Long story short, went looking for a 2.2 crank for a project here and was put in contact with this guy who had one . . . so he said. Asked Andreas in Berlin to transfer the money for the crank and shipping to US to this guy and finally had to resort to sending the cops after him. They really frown on not delivering goods paid for by bank to bank transfers over there. Anyway, the guy contacted Andreas to tell him he would send "another" to him, not exactly what I paid for, but better than nothing. This time, under duress from the Polizei, a crank and some other pieces arrived at Andreas' house a few days later. Since it took almost a year, with little contact from him after the payment was made, to deliver the crank, I asked Andreas to check it out and make sure he didn't just send junk . . . or, when I thought about it, just send a 1.9/2.0 (69.8mm stroke) crank. Andreas sent some very high resolution pics of the crank to me yesterday, two of which have a metric tape measure on them for reference. Did some calculation based on one of those pics, and it looks like he sent a 1.9 crank . . . measurements weren't even close to being a 2.2! That brings me to my "other 2.2 crank IDs" question . . . are there any markings forged into the crank that would definitively ID it as a 2.2 (77.5mm stroke) vs. a 1.9 (69.8 stroke)? Just want to exhaust all possibilities before we send the "Polizei" out again! I've attached my pic why I think it's just a 1.9 crank that was sent . . .

Otto it's very easy:
the 2.2 crank is the only CIH 4 cyl crank to have 4 counterweights &
the recessed/curved/hollow area in the center of the throws & counterweights,
it's something I can recognize in my stock without unwrapping all my cranks one by one,
so basically I agree with Bob!
HTH,
Hiro

[Hiro]

Originally Posted by apassens Hi there. A photo comparision of a 2.2 and 1.9 crank are to be found on the hecktriebler site. (Das Opel Hecktriebler Forum - Hilfe mit Mitglied Hans-Peter Hintz Kontakt . . .) The corpus delicti should be a 2.2 due to the counter weight differences.

Genau!
Sehr Gut Bild!
MfG,
Hiro

[2 Fast 4 U]

Looking at the numbers you put in the pic 67 - 32 = 35 it's at least bigger than the 68.9 mm for a 1.9 crank, and taking in account that the pic wasn't made at a 90º angle from the crank I would say it's a 2.2 crank, here a pic from my 2.2 crank, it's not very good but you can see that it reads 75 - 77 mm

[RallyBob]

Agreed, you can't go by the photo of the crank next to the tape measure. It's all about perspective.

[tekenaar]

Originally Posted by Hiro Originally Posted by RallyBob IMO, that is a photo of a 2.2 crank. Note the 'scalloped' or undercut area at the rod throws and at the counterweights. 1.9 cranks are not undercut in these areas. Hence the lighter weight of the 2.2 crank (34 vs. 36.25 lbs.). Also, the front crank pulley bolt is larger than that used on the 1.9 crank. Head diameter is 22 mm vs. 19 mm, however I can't remember the thread pitch and diameter (but it is larger). HTH, Bob Otto it's very easy: the 2.2 crank is the only CIH 4 cyl crank to have 4 counterweights & the recessed/curved/hollow area in the center of the throws & counterweights, it's something I can recognize in my stock without unwrapping all my cranks one by one, so basically I agree with Bob! HTH, Hiro

. . . thanks to both of you and actually to Peter also, who finally responded directly to me after all this time. So this issue is settled and now all of us here also know how to distinguish a 2.2 crank, undercut counterweights!

[jeff denton]

So it's the crank you need and it's yours, now how do you get it to America? Our dear friends at this site who are on that side of the world have offered me nice deals on 2.2 cranks but the shipping quotes are so outrageous. I can actually get a 2.2 shortblock core from OGTS a lot cheaper. What a shame it's so hard to get parts here. I'm thinking about moving back to Europe soon.

[opelwasp]

Yup, shipping stinks. Thats why I had mine stroked in Detroit. $600 to add 1/2" to the stroke and shipped back to me.

[RallyBob]

Originally Posted by opelwasp Thats why I had mine stroked in Detroit.

I'll make no other comment other than this: On it's own and out of context, this is a pretty funny statement....

[opelwasp]

Originally Posted by RallyBob I'll make no other comment other than this: On it's own and out of context, this is a pretty funny statement....

You are sooooo bad.

[tekenaar]

Originally Posted by jeff denton So it's the crank you need and it's yours, now how do you get it to America? Our dear friends at this site who are on that side of the world have offered me nice deals on 2.2 cranks but the shipping quotes are so outrageous. I can actually get a 2.2 shortblock core from OGTS a lot cheaper. What a shame it's so hard to get parts here. I'm thinking about moving back to Europe soon.

. . . shipping to Texas was included in the price I paid him at the time and when Peter called Andreas to assure him that it was indeed a 2.2 crank, he commited to cover the shipping here to the US . . . also in the e-mail he sent me directly.

-----Original Message----- From: Hans-Peter Hintz Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 1:32 AM To: Otto Bartsch Subject: Re: RE: crank - 2,2 Liter Kurbelwelle für Otto Bartsch, USA Hallo Otto, die Kurbelwelle die ich den Thomas Passens geschikt habe ist 100%ig eine Kurbelwelle vom 2,2 Liter. Im an anhang habe ich 2 Bilder von einer 2,0 und 2 Bilder von einer 2,2 Liter mit gemailt. An den Gegengewichten sieht man den Unterschied. Die 2,0 Liter Gegegengewicht sind gerade und bei der 2,2 Liter haben die Gegengewichte eine kleine runde ausbuchtung. Hoffe das ich es so erklärt habe das Du das verstehst. Wahrscheinlich ist beim Messen was schief gelaufen. Außerdem habe ich den Herrn Passens am Telefon angeboten die versandkosten nach Texas zu übernehmen, was er am Telefon ausgeschlagen hat. mfg Peter

. . . I'll just ask Andreas to pack the parts up, ship it and have Peter pay for it. Should be simple . . . we'll see.

[opelwasp]

Originally Posted by tekenaar . . . shipping to Texas was included in the price I paid him at the time and when Peter called Andreas to assure him that it was indeed a 2.2 crank, he commited to cover the shipping here to the US . . . also in the e-mail he sent me directly. . . . I'll just ask Andreas to pack the parts up, ship it and have Peter pay for it. Should be simple . . . we'll see.

Holding breath...NOT

[Hiro]

yes shipping a crank from Europe to the US is not a simple affair:
as I told Jeff UPS quoted me $480 to ship a 2.2 crank from France to Nevada!
the other problem is to make a crate as light as possible to protect the crank,
this is where I'm stuck at the moment.
adding up all these drawbacks it seems that the only crank we can dream about sending to you guys is the 2.2 one,
thus unfortunately all the 8 counterweight cranks are out of this game for the moment.
(sorry Bob)
Hiro

[Hiro]

Originally Posted by RallyBob I'll make no other comment other than this: On it's own and out of context, this is a pretty funny statement....

have to tell the GM guys Bob!
Hiro

[tomking]

Originally Posted by opelwasp You are sooooo bad.

Wellllll, maybe he has been to Detroit?

[hrcollinsjr]

Originally Posted by opelwasp Yup, shipping stinks. Thats why I had mine stroked in Detroit. $600 to add 1/2" to the stroke and shipped back to me.

$600 sounds awfully high. Court costs & lawyer fees?

Sorry I couldn't resist. I'll try to do better if there is a next time.

Harold

[jeff denton]

I think there's a simple pill that'll do that now. I keep seeing the commercials on TV.

[tekenaar]

Originally Posted by Hiro yes shipping a crank from Europe to the US is not a simple affair: as I told Jeff UPS quoted me $480 to ship a 2.2 crank from France to Nevada! the other problem is to make a crate as light as possible to protect the crank, this is where I'm stuck at the moment. adding up all these drawbacks it seems that the only crank we can dream about sending to you guys is the 2.2 one, thus unfortunately all the 8 counterweight cranks are out of this game for the moment. (sorry Bob) Hiro

I dont' know how it is in France, Hiro, but I understand that Deutsche Post will ship packages up to 10 Kg to the US for 36EU and up to 20 Kg for 60EU. 2.2 crank weighs just a bit over 15Kg, so if properly packed up, that should work, no? Probably takes a while to get here, but as long as crank journals and snout are protected from corrosion, even sea freight should be OK.

[P.J. Romano]

I was lucky to travel for business to Germany several times.
Last year I brought my Getrag from Germany in Wal-Mart hockey bag. The Lufthansa guy at Munich airport raised his eyebrows when I put the bag on the scale (CLONK!) but the weight was within 65lbs limit (I had to remove the shifter, though).
Now famous hockey bag travelled once again empty to Germany and returned back filled with 4 Ronal rims.
The things that we do for our Opels.

[Hiro]

Originally Posted by tekenaar I dont' know how it is in France, Hiro, but I understand that Deutsche Post will ship packages up to 10 Kg to the US for 36EU and up to 20 Kg for 60EU. 2.2 crank weighs just a bit over 15Kg, so if properly packed up, that should work, no? Probably takes a while to get here, but as long as crank journals and snout are protected from corrosion, even sea freight should be OK.

unfortunately French Post is more expensive than Deutsch Post: a 20kg parcel for the US will cost $130.
now the other problem we have very recently here is that the whole French Post is a mess these days,
it's always been like this but we recently had de-regulation laws & severe manpower cuts.
as a result my daily mail often ends up in a neighbour's mailbox a block away,
my wife & kids don't receive their favorite on-line ordered stuffs by mail anymore.
we more & more suspect there is a parallele "borrow & resell" gang operating nearby,
this is one more reason it might not be the right moment for me to try difficult shipments abroad...
Hiro