CIH Turbo EFI by RallyBob - Page 12

RallyBob · 07-04-2004

Originally Posted by namba209

I'm curious Bob, did you or the machinist mark the valve stems before cutting them down at the valve seated position at the valve guide or were they marked at the fully open position at the valve guide?

Nope, that's just the way they are made, I didn't change the spec.

N61WP · 07-04-2004

TGSI used the same type Manley valves in my head. If I remember correctly, they were called Pro-Flow, or Race-Flow to signify the under cut.
Jc

Washout · 07-04-2004

Are these valves the correct length? The sizes seem to match the chevy valves but I recall that they were too long by .100 or so.

RallyBob · 07-04-2004

Stock length Chevy valves are indeed longer than Opel valves. I know that TGSI has his cut down to custom length, I assume to stock Opel length.

I have run stock-length Chevy valves for years, the only real down side is the loss of valve lift. This is a side effect of the longer valves: the geometry change reduces the valve lift. In theory it will also cause uneven wear on the valve tips. Sometimes it does, sometimes not. This is dependent on the length of the lifters, and the base circle diameter of the camshaft.

Bob

RallyBob · 08-09-2004

Well, since I had some paint and my paint gun out today painting wheels, I decided to paint the gas tank for the turbo Manta. Almost looks too good to put under the car...

namba209 · 08-09-2004

Yes it does, Bob. And welcome back to the world of production on Opels. Hope you are recuperating nicely. It's been way too long since you've been really active on the site.

RallyBob · 08-10-2004

Thanks Ron, I haven't been working on car stuff much lately. The hand is almost totally healed, and I have nearly regrown the fingernail of my once-crushed finger. This is the worst time of the year for me in general, I abhor heat and especially humidity. But it's been very cool here the past few days so I got motivated again.

I just dug up a few photos from a couple months back. It just shows the difference between the stock WRX turbo I originally intended for this project and the new VF22 turbo I'm going to use instead. The turbine housing is quite a bit larger in diameter as you can see. I still took the time to port the turbine housing inlet to promote faster spool-up time. The second photo shows a stock unported VF22 next to the one I ported for the Manta.

namba209 · 08-10-2004

Darn those suckers are small. Then I just remembered, I'm used to seeing turbos on a 3350 cu.in. engine or on an Allison or Rolls Royce 1750 cu.in. V-12. Thinking torque convertor size in diameter. Then I see the coffee cup size in your pics. It just blew my mind. Suffice to say I've never really looked too close at a turbo'd engine in a car before. Anyway, as usual, the workmanship is outstanding and a piece of art for sure. From my motorcycle racing days, the only suggestion I would have is to mirror polish the inside of the inlet so carbon particles from the exhuast won't have a place to grab onto and stick. Once that happens, the particles grow like a fungus inside the exhaust ports, making the port smaller and reducing efficiency. JMTCW.

RallyBob · 08-28-2004

Well, good news. I finally got to pick up the head from the machinist today. The irony as usual is that the head has been sitting down there since May, but the guy only started on the head yesterday. Needed one valve guide, a complete valve job, and a surprising amount of milling to make it flat. There was a 'dip' in the casting between chambers #2 and #3, so it would have certainly blown the head gasket under boost. Maybe this week I can get back to work on this project.....

davegt27 · 08-28-2004

i know the feeling i just got 2 heads i had flow tested back yesterday

they had been down there since June

Davegt27

Travis · 08-28-2004

Originally Posted by davegt27

i just got 2 heads i had flow tested back yesterday

How were the results?

-Travis

davegt27 · 08-28-2004

oh sorry they where Toyota Heads

dave

Travis · 08-28-2004

Originally Posted by davegt27

oh sorry they where Toyota Heads

dave

Sorry to hear that... :P

RallyBob · 08-29-2004

I snapped this photo while the head was still being milled....

After the first pass, you can see the untouched area (low spot) between cylinder #2 and #3....I can only assume from heat. It took three passes to remove not only the low spot, but the corrosion at the coolant passage o-ring area. Not enough anti-freeze in the mix!

GTJIM · 08-29-2004

That pics graphically goes to show that sometimes heads DO need to be skimmed. Also that "anti-freeze" should be used year around for its rust inhibiting quailties. That area between #2 & #3 obviously needs all the cooling it can get - it has been a bit hot on that head at some time - very lucky it has not cracked.

Nice Chamber unshrouding and work in the valve pockets too!

RallyBob · 10-03-2004

Things have been slow here at turbo central. Too much time spent working on my ATV, my winter car, and working late hours at work.

So I have only a small update to make. I made some modifications to the WRX intercooler to make it fit the Manta. As you can see, the stock inlets are on the face of one end tank, and the bypass valve is normally mounted to the intercooler outlet tank. I had to cap these openings off and make another inlet pipe which will be welded in place at a different location.

RallyBob · 10-03-2004

I initially made the bypass valve block-off plate from 1/8" 5000 series aluminum, but a quick pressure test showed it flexed enough to create a leak. So I made a replacement block-off plate from 1/4" thick 6061 aluminum which passed the pressure test with ease.

Here you can see that I first layed out the patterns on the aluminum with permanent marker.

Followed by drilling the mounting holes on a drill press, which is much easier to do before the pieces are cut out from the large plate.

Next I cut them out with a band-saw, which does a nice job rather quickly.

Finally I dressed the edges on a wide-belt sander. Final finishing will be done later on, once I decide what I want to do....paint, polish, powder-coat, satin finish????

RallyBob · 10-07-2004

The intercooler is now complete.

I used a hole-saw to make the oval hole in the intercooler tank for the new tube. I drilled two overlapping holes while holding the tank upside down to avoid letting metal chips into the intercooler core. It took a bit of grinding with a die grinder to size the hole exactly, and for this I used a shop vac at the opening to minimize chip ingestion again. Then a quick pass with the heli-arc and all is well.

kwilford · 10-07-2004

Nice job, Bob. Only one thing. Are you concerned about the loss in intercooling capacity by having all the air flow in one end of the plenum, versus through the two central locations in the stock setup? I read recently about an intercooler project (Was it here? Am I having an Alzheimer's moment?) where even the stock inlet piping resulted in "bypass". In other words, all the air flowed down one side of the intercooler, and it didn't provide as much cooling as it should have (by design). The remedy was to integrate an internal baffle system that diverted air evenly throughout the core, MUCH improving the cooler operation, and significantly reducing the charge temperature (so more HP).
JM2CW

RallyBob · 10-07-2004

Hopefully it won't be an issue. The inlet is almost exactly centrally located, so the outlet side probably won't affect the airflow through the core, only out the 'exit' port. When the car is dynoed I can check localized temps with an infrared pyrometer....I was planning on doing exactly that anyway. I'll check incoming air temps to the turbo, out of the turbo compressor, just before the intercooler, across the face of the core, just after the intercooler, etc. Just for posterity and record-keeping sake.

Bob

namba209 · 10-07-2004

Bob, I'm guessing the inlet to the intercooler is at the top and the outlet from the bottom plenum. That being the case, and pneudraulics being what it is, the whole cooler will be pressurized and that pressure will be equalized across the board inside, except where the low pressure of the outlet is. So theoritically two things could occur, the flow will be through the entire cooler and the rapid expansion of air going into the plenum should drop the temp significantly. So it says in the fine print. BTW, another piece of art, I wish I was as talented.

08-29-2004	#290 (permalink)
GTJIM 4246 Post Club Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: New Zealand Posts: 5,524 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	Goes to Show! That pics graphically goes to show that sometimes heads DO need to be skimmed. Also that "anti-freeze" should be used year around for its rust inhibiting quailties. That area between #2 & #3 obviously needs all the cooling it can get - it has been a bit hot on that head at some time - very lucky it has not cracked. Nice Chamber unshrouding and work in the valve pockets too!

07-04-2004	#277 (permalink)
N61WP Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: New Orleans, La Posts: 533 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	TGSI used the same type Manley valves in my head. If I remember correctly, they were called Pro-Flow, or Race-Flow to signify the under cut. Jc

07-04-2004	#278 (permalink)
Washout Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Ohio for now, but Texas is Home Posts: 337 Classified Rating: 0% (0) Logbook Entries: 4	Are these valves the correct length? The sizes seem to match the chevy valves but I recall that they were too long by .100 or so.

07-04-2004	#279 (permalink)
RallyBob Project 1450 supporter... Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Pleasant Valley, CT Posts: 6,658 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	Stock length Chevy valves are indeed longer than Opel valves. I know that TGSI has his cut down to custom length, I assume to stock Opel length. I have run stock-length Chevy valves for years, the only real down side is the loss of valve lift. This is a side effect of the longer valves: the geometry change reduces the valve lift. In theory it will also cause uneven wear on the valve tips. Sometimes it does, sometimes not. This is dependent on the length of the lifters, and the base circle diameter of the camshaft. Bob

08-09-2004	#281 (permalink)
namba209 6,000 Post Club Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Imperial Beach, CA South of San Diego Posts: 6,033 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	Yes it does, Bob. And welcome back to the world of production on Opels. Hope you are recuperating nicely. It's been way too long since you've been really active on the site.

08-10-2004	#283 (permalink)
namba209 6,000 Post Club Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Imperial Beach, CA South of San Diego Posts: 6,033 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	Darn those suckers are small. Then I just remembered, I'm used to seeing turbos on a 3350 cu.in. engine or on an Allison or Rolls Royce 1750 cu.in. V-12. Thinking torque convertor size in diameter. Then I see the coffee cup size in your pics. It just blew my mind. Suffice to say I've never really looked too close at a turbo'd engine in a car before. Anyway, as usual, the workmanship is outstanding and a piece of art for sure. From my motorcycle racing days, the only suggestion I would have is to mirror polish the inside of the inlet so carbon particles from the exhuast won't have a place to grab onto and stick. Once that happens, the particles grow like a fungus inside the exhaust ports, making the port smaller and reducing efficiency. JMTCW.

08-28-2004	#284 (permalink)
RallyBob Project 1450 supporter... Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Pleasant Valley, CT Posts: 6,658 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	Well, good news. I finally got to pick up the head from the machinist today. The irony as usual is that the head has been sitting down there since May, but the guy only started on the head yesterday. Needed one valve guide, a complete valve job, and a surprising amount of milling to make it flat. There was a 'dip' in the casting between chambers #2 and #3, so it would have certainly blown the head gasket under boost. Maybe this week I can get back to work on this project.....

08-28-2004	#285 (permalink)
davegt27 Certified Opelholic Join Date: May 2002 Location: Aurora, CO Posts: 862 Classified Rating: 100% (1)	i know the feeling i just got 2 heads i had flow tested back yesterday they had been down there since June Davegt27

08-28-2004	#287 (permalink)
davegt27 Certified Opelholic Join Date: May 2002 Location: Aurora, CO Posts: 862 Classified Rating: 100% (1)	oh sorry they where Toyota Heads dave

10-07-2004	#294 (permalink)
kwilford Über OpelGT.com Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada Posts: 3,773 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	Nice job, Bob. Only one thing. Are you concerned about the loss in intercooling capacity by having all the air flow in one end of the plenum, versus through the two central locations in the stock setup? I read recently about an intercooler project (Was it here? Am I having an Alzheimer's moment?) where even the stock inlet piping resulted in "bypass". In other words, all the air flowed down one side of the intercooler, and it didn't provide as much cooling as it should have (by design). The remedy was to integrate an internal baffle system that diverted air evenly throughout the core, MUCH improving the cooler operation, and significantly reducing the charge temperature (so more HP). JM2CW

10-07-2004	#295 (permalink)
RallyBob Project 1450 supporter... Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Pleasant Valley, CT Posts: 6,658 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	Hopefully it won't be an issue. The inlet is almost exactly centrally located, so the outlet side probably won't affect the airflow through the core, only out the 'exit' port. When the car is dynoed I can check localized temps with an infrared pyrometer....I was planning on doing exactly that anyway. I'll check incoming air temps to the turbo, out of the turbo compressor, just before the intercooler, across the face of the core, just after the intercooler, etc. Just for posterity and record-keeping sake. Bob

10-07-2004	#296 (permalink)
namba209 6,000 Post Club Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Imperial Beach, CA South of San Diego Posts: 6,033 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	Bob, I'm guessing the inlet to the intercooler is at the top and the outlet from the bottom plenum. That being the case, and pneudraulics being what it is, the whole cooler will be pressurized and that pressure will be equalized across the board inside, except where the low pressure of the outlet is. So theoritically two things could occur, the flow will be through the entire cooler and the rapid expansion of air going into the plenum should drop the temp significantly. So it says in the fine print. BTW, another piece of art, I wish I was as talented.