CIH Turbo EFI by RallyBob

[jeff denton]

It looks awesome.
Is it going to be aftercooled? I never caught any mention of it.
And have you considered putting an accumulator in the turbo oil feed? My Jimmy ate a few turbo bushings before I added one, never was another problem.

[RallyBob]

Originally Posted by jeff denton Is it going to be aftercooled? I never caught any mention of it. And have you considered putting an accumulator in the turbo oil feed? My Jimmy ate a few turbo bushings before I added one, never was another problem.

Yes, earlier in this thread I showed the mods to the intercooler tank to make it fit this car. Air-to-air from a WRX.

I might put a Canton accumulator in, I have one laying around. One thing I have tried to pound into the car owner's head is how crucial the turbo spool-down and cool-down times are to the longevity of the turbocharger. Plus if you'll note the turbo will actually get oil pressure before the rest of the engine, due to the oil feed line coming off the oil pump outlet. I'm feeding it with a -4 line, but it's physically restricted to .035" at the turbo since it's a ball-bearing center section.

Bob

[gtzero]

I managed to stay away from this thread up until now because I knew Bob's work would make me sick with lust. But curiosity got the better of me and now, I'm just depressed.

Bob, I'm speechless. Absolutely stunning.

Manny

[RallyBob]

I managed to button up the valvetrain today. For starters, here are some detail photos of the camshaft thrust button and the adjustable front cam cover I built.

Yesterday I received the lifter lash caps I was missing, and proceeded to wash all the valvetrain parts to be installed. You can see the rocker arms, the lifters, the lash caps, the polylocks, and the stud girdle layed out after they were cleaned, and ready to be fitted. The lifters got a coating of break-in assembly lube, along with the tips of the valves and the tops of the lash caps. The roller tip pivots and the center trunion were oiled liberally with straight 30 weight engine oil.

For this particular camshaft, valve lash was to be set at .014" intake and .016" exhaust. I chose to measure the lash at the lifter side of the rocker arm, but in order to get an accurate measurement I had to divide the valve lash at the valve end by the rocker arm ratio (1.557:1). So this worked out to roughly .009" intake, and .010" for the exhaust, which are the dimensions I set the rocker arms to.

[RallyBob]

Last thing for the engine internals was the stud girdle fitment. I like to run the stud girdle down as low as possible without actually hitting the rockers. It allows for more stability, more clearance, and it helps to keep the oil within the center fulcrum rather than spraying it around everywhere.

Even with the girdle as low as it goes, there is still interference with the valve cover. The normal option is to use a thin spacer and two valve cover gaskets to space it upwards. I'm going to weld a piece of 1/4" thick aluminum to the lower valve cover flange for a more permanent solution. After welding I'll grind the edges smooth before powdercoating the valvecover.

[markandson]

Bob,
That is a beautiful thing!
I am jealous, all I need is the pistons and rods and I could be doing the same thing to my 2.2. I am sooooo close. How is it that you can chrome the bolts and not the threads? I have always wondered that, or do you have to chase the threads with a die after they come back from the plater. Gregg called me the other day and told me there might be a problem with my roller rocker set. Something about the diameter of the hole for the rocker stud being off by .002". I have a new set of rocker studs on the way, so when they show up I can test them and will know if I have a problem. I would love to see this car when you are done.

[RallyBob]

Originally Posted by markandson How is it that you can chrome the bolts and not the threads?

You can just mask off whatever you don't want plated...they can do this with lacquer masking fluid or with special tape made for this purpose.

[GTJIM]

The stuff on the inside of this motor is near as nice as the stuff outside ....
And all fully functional too!

[namba209]

Bob, I'm kinda curious, and of course probably wrong in my memory of what the underside of the valve cover is like. But if the only area that interferes with the girdles is right at the oil filler hole, why not just mill that part of the cover away, or are there other areas that interfere also? That would save the necessity of making a spacer, machining after welding, etc.

[RallyBob]

Ron, the area under the valve cover that normally holds the breather mesh has been completely milled away on this particular valve cover, with the exception of the area under the filler cap. I decided to keep that portion intact because in other experiments I've done in the past, not having a baffle here results in a lot of oil leakage past the filler cap from direct oil splashing.

Bob

[namba209]

Well There Now There Then. You Da Man Bob!! Just gotta love the experience you have on these motors. I would've probably done what I asked you about, then have to live with continual oil spray all over the motor, if I had a CIH motor in Willit? that is. I'm sure others will appreciate that insight. Thanx for the info.

[GTJIM]

Originally Posted by RallyBob The normal option is to use a thin spacer and two valve cover gaskets to space it upwards. I'm going to weld a piece of 1/4" thick aluminum to the lower valve cover flange for a more permanent solution. After welding I'll grind the edges smooth before powdercoating the valvecover.

I have been examining this problem too. The idea I came up with was to get some 8mm ali plate laser cut to shape and attach it to the rocker cover with Loctite hi-temp structural adhesive to get a complete seal. Instead of having to weld all the way around the edge (inner??). That stuff works as we regularly bond cast ali parts together at the Water Jet Factory where I work.

[jeff denton]

Myself, I found the stock valve cover to be horrible in my application. Had to totally reverse the baffle concept, sealed it to the cover on the right side and made it open on the left. Oil was climbing the wall and shooting out the breather, bad. Engine was a mess after its very first track test run.
As for the spacer, mine "sticks inside" the valve cover rail of the head, fits closely around the valve springs. Theory here was to prevent oil on the "floor" from wanting to climb up. The spacer also runs real close to the timing chain and sprocket on their "uphill" side to help strip oil off, hoping to keep said oil from ever entering the top end.
On the far left side, the spacer extends beyond the external edge of the valve cover, makes a cool looking spark plug wire routing plate.
There's pictures of it somewhere here, maybe in my gallery, an inside look should be in my thread about using the flywheel as a degree wheel to adjust cam timing.
The spacer plate is glued to the head with a bead of "Right Stuff", doesn't leak a drop. Above that is a cork gasket glued to the valve cover with 3M trim adhesive (yellow "gorilla snot", as the racers call it) there are no leaks there either. Next time, this will change a little, I'd glue the spacer to the valve cover, as I found in my timing adjusting experience that the "master link chain" was impossible to work with the plate so close to it.
Bob, I was showing a racer friend your pictures of the turbo motor, he was a little shocked at a 300 horsepower prediction!
Keep on!!

[GTJIM]

Good idea Jeff. I bet that chainacts like an elevator for oil - stripping it off before it gets right up into the rocker cover is a dandy idea and easily done with a close fitting spacer.

[jeff denton]

Better yet (next time) would be a little "fender" attached to the plate to REALLY keep the oil outta there...
You know how it is. Everey time you build something you stand back and realize how different the next one will be...

[neuropel]

Will a Manta valve cover provide ample clearance? I'm guessing not. How about a 2.2 or 2.4 valve cover?

[RallyBob]

Originally Posted by neuropel Will a Manta valve cover provide ample clearance? I'm guessing not. How about a 2.2 or 2.4 valve cover?

Nope, they will all interfere just a bit. I've seen a few installed with sheetmetal (Manta) covers with no spacer, but they always leak because the gasket does not get compressed...it is held up just a bit by the polylocks. With a stud girdle it's a definite 'no'.

[RallyBob]

For you Ron, a look at the inside of the valve cover showing where it has been milled away, all except for the oil filler area.

I finally got the custom clutch today. A slightly stronger pressure plate from a Chevy S-10 (9.125" diameter), and a fully custom 9.125" sprung center clutch disc with the appropriate 1.125" x 10 spline to fit the Getrag 265 transmission I'll be using. The friction material is called Fibertuff, which is essentially a semi-metallic compound with substantially more holding power than organic or Kevlar friction material, but more streetable than sintered bronze facing material. Use of a segmented disc rather than full-facing improves the grip as well, without requiring a very stiff pressure plate.

[namba209]

Wow, a pic from Bob just for my edification. Thanx Bob, I just didn't realize how much more there was under the cover. Just goes to show you, I didn't do much overhauling on my original motors. I just drove them 'til they exploded then got another one from the recyclers. Much more cost effective at the time, (20 years ago), than springing for an overhaul. Now I gotta figure out if I want to go the same route on my T-5 for Willit? as far as the clutch package goes that you did or let it go until I wear out the clutch. I think I'll go with what I have for the time being, the S-10 T-5 should work, I hope.

[RallyBob]

Finally welded the valve cover spacer in place. All that remains is to grind the welds down and then powdercoat the cover.

A few more pics showing the bare underhood and also the engine waiting to be fitted, but not before all the various cooling systems (radiator, intercooler, oil cooler) are fitted to the chassis and plumbed.

[neuropel]

I'm sorry, but that last picture is just kick ass! That is one wicked looking Opel engine. When do you think it'll go on the dyno? We HAVE to get performance data from you soon on it.

[BQS4]

JEEZ! That thing's gonna make a beautiful noise when it fires up. The rumble of the exhaust, the whine of the turbo, the schreek of the driver!

[tekenaar]

Originally Posted by BQS4 JEEZ! That thing's gonna make a beautiful noise when it fires up. The rumble of the exhaust, the whine of the turbo, the schreek of the driver!

You're thinking of a supercharger, right?

[RallyBob]

Originally Posted by tekenaar You're thinking of a supercharger, right?

Turbos definitely make a distinct whine of their own, especially with a big downpipe.

[namba209]

Bob, I was going to respond earlier today, but the comp problems here had me going in circles. Anyway, as usual, you've done a masterpiece of work, again. I sure wish Willit? would look as pristine as what you've done. That is some fantastic work. I'm sure any dyno tests you do will also put Willit? to shame in that area too. Not that I'm envious or anything.