Performance Cams

[opelrun21]

No I haven't changed the E-tubes. The carb says it comes with F50's. Are they marked on the tubes? I want to take them out and check them. If I can check them, what size should they be while its stock? Also while its stock would the best exhuast for me be the 2 off the header and just turn over the axle toward the ground and out? I just dont want to see pipes out the back, so I can shave the back panel for a smoother look.


She just wants to roll down the street agian

[RallyBob]

Try the F-66 emulsion tubes, it helps off-idle performance a lot.

[opelrun21]

Does off the idle mean when you go from idle to throttle? Cause that is accually my big problem. When I give it gas it bogs, and almost dies but keeps an idle. Hope that is the problem!

Thanks alot Bob!
I'm always ready to listen.

[greensmurf20]

i've done reading, on and off the forums and asked somebody about the likes of me using this cam. internally stock low compression GT, pertronix, weber, header are the only things done to the engine. is it ok to use a 435 lift/290 duaration cam with hydraulic lifters in this car as a daily driver? i dont want solids as this is a daily driver, about 10,000 miles a year, solids just drive me crazy on long trips. a simple yes or no is all i need, i got plenty of explanations from here, just double checking, i dont want to bother you guys more than i have to.

[greensmurf20]

i'm assuming no problems with using this cam, altho its close to the line of whether stock springs are ok to use. how will the "torquer" intake manifold design of Bob's compliment the cam?

[greensmurf20]

well, turns out i'll be letting you guys know if anybody cares to hear. i'll have the cam and lifters in place before the manifold. i have a weak lifter, knocks off and on, today got really bad for a little bit, and then mysteriousely went away as always, lifters are adjusted right. so the cam and lifters was a "must do", the upgrade was a "want to" so i can say how the cam does on its own and with the torquer intake, probably wont have the intake on before i put it up for the winter.

[GTJIM]

The standard Opel hydraulic cam is no slug on the street with peak power at around 5,200 rpm so do not under rate it as a cam for street use. A "torquer" cam is far more use in a road car - especially one that needs to travel smoothly at 30 mph and less around town in top gear!

[kwilford]

Originally Posted by greensmurf20 is it ok to use a 435 lift/290 duration cam with hydraulic lifters in this car as a daily driver?

I am NOT the cam expert here, but let me take a stab, and hopefully learn something along the way.

First, it this cam a "hydraulic grind"? As I understand it, a "solid" grind has quite an abrupt ramp on the lobe, while the hydraulic grind has a gentle start to the ramp. I believe you can use a sold lifter on a hydraulic grind cam, but not vice versa.

Here is a quote I got from RB when I was asking about cams a while back:
"Stock Opel is .390" intake/.400" exhaust, 198 degree duration @ .050". Pretty mild then (I run cams with over 245 degrees @ .050" on the street for comparison)"

The lift on your cam doesn't seem too wild, but the duration is starting to get up there. Is the duration measured at 0.050" lift, or for the entire lift? Just as a comparison, OGTS's "Torquer" cam ("Good for street application") has a .407" lift, 256 degree duration. The "Combination" cam I bought from them ("Good for street and autocross") has a 0.430" lift and 268 degree duration (I believe those are total durations). They also sell a "Max Comp" cam, with the same lift, and 284 degree duration (solid grind only), which they describe as "Good for autocross and racing applications. Not for street!" Which sounds more like your cam, or even a bit milder.

Where did you get this cam from? RallyBob, can you help us poor unwashed here?

[nobody]

I'll weigh in on this one, that at .050 it is at 230. The ramp on hydraulics is more abrupt to aid in the preload of the springs and oil pressure. If you use solids on a hudraulic grind you loose about 10 degrees of duration becouse of the valve lash differences. Almost nothing you do will change the at .050 numbers but you can change your duration a few degrees by shortening the lash. I've been all over this recently and I know this cam very well.

[kwilford]

Originally Posted by nobody I'll weigh in on this one, that at .050 it is at 230. The ramp on hydraulics is more abrupt to aid in the pre-load of the springs and oil pressure. If you use solids on a hydraulic grind you loose about 10 degrees of duration because of the valve lash differences. Almost nothing you do will change the at .050 numbers but you can change your duration a few degrees by shortening the lash. I've been all over this recently and I know this cam very well.

About TIME we got an answer from somebody who knows what they are talking about

I had thought that a solid grind ramp profile was early and fast for the first 10 thou or so to take up the lash, compared to a later but more gentle opening ramp for the hydraulic grind, and then they were pretty much the same for the rest of the lift. Hmm, live and learn...

Hey, does that mean that hydraulic lifters on a solid cam will INCREASE the duration? How well do hydraulic lifters work (if at all) on a solid grind cam? Was I correct in saying "solid on hydraulic, but NOT hydraulic on solid"?

So David, is it a given that Jared's 290 degree duration is the "full" duration, and that it is a 230 degree duration at fifty thou? Do you know his cam, or can it just be calculated by taking away 30 degrees of duration for the opening and closing of the last 50 thou (as a "rule of thumb")?

Finally, will Jared's cam be OK with hydraulic lifters in a street application?

TIA

[nobody]

It is solids on a hydraulic grind and you loose duration and that is never a good thing when trying to build power. You get advertised durations and they very from manufacturer to manufacturer. That is why the at .050 is a good indication of what you really have.

As for the cam it idles very well in a flat top motor so in a low comp. it would be fine as well.

I wasn't guessing on the specs since it is my cam and lifters and I have the cam card in front of me. It was in my motor till I went a bit overboard. It has enough time on it to be broken in and that's about it.

[greensmurf20]

well, the cam is in and it runs great. the power dont seem to fall off just after you hit 5K, and you can feel it start to come into play around 3,300 RPM. it pulls much harder to redline, very very awesome, sounds mean at higher RPM, and has a little loping to it now, but still nothing in the such of a smallblock chevy...........still sounds awesome. final adjustment of the lifters tomarrow to make sure they're dead on and all will be well. assuming i'll need a carb rejet after i put the torquer on this winter. i'll take some 0-60 times when i can get a hold of a stop watch, i'm just hoping for a little better than stock high comp. the cylinders have absolutely no ridge, which also made me happy. thanks alot to Jim, Keith, and Dave for posting, and selling the cam/lifters.

[kwilford]

Originally Posted by kwilford Hey, does that mean that hydraulic lifters on a solid cam will INCREASE the duration? How well do hydraulic lifters work (if at all) on a solid grind cam? Was I correct in saying "solid on hydraulic, but NOT hydraulic on solid"?

OK, I am ALMOST retired from the list. But not before I get a clear answer to this question:
Can hydraulic lifters be used on a solid grind cam? If not, what is the reason? Does the lifter "collapse" due to the aggressive opening ramp, or is there another phenomena?
The reason I ask is I have a three-bearing-cam head going on my SportWagon engine (all re-built, with .040"-over forged flat-top pistons and factory EFI). I was planning on installing new hydraulic lifters on a reasonably good hydraulic grind four-bearing cam, but I have a chance to buy at least one NOS three-bearing cam, both of which are solid-grind. So I thought "why not install a new cam with everything else rebuilt, but darn, I don't have any new (or old, for that matter) solid lifters, and apparently they are hard to get these days."

Answers?

[greensmurf20]

probably not qualified to answer the question, bits and pieces i pick up on the forums seem to say hydraulics can't go on a solid grind becasue of the lift ramp of the cam lobe. collapses the lifter, which would probably make it run funny and sound worse than solids themselves.

[greensmurf20]

look at post 34.

[nobody]

Keith you do need solid lifters for that, new are hard to get but they can be reground for a new cam. Give me a bit and I'll see what I can do. I know of 3 sets and maybe more that can be reground, I have your address and know the grinding shop well so it can happen. Keep the faith.

[hrcollinsjr]

Keith,

There's your answer, finally! Didn't find the earlier post until you pointed it out, THANKS!

Now what's this about retired from the "list"? You meant "thread". Right?


Harold

[kwilford]

I must have missed that post. Oh well, I just might "try" a set of hydraulics on this cam, and find out first hand. Bob does say it "might" collapse the lifter...

Maybe another option would be to have the cam re-ground to a hydraulic profile. I haven't looked around Calgary, but I suspect that SOMEONE around here might do that. I could also get it modified a bit to give a bit more lift and duration. It just seems a shame to waste a brand new 3-bearing cam, when I have a head that it would fit perfectly. After all, a 4-bearing cam can be used in a 3-bearing head, but not the other way, and I suspect that 3-bearing heads are less common than 4-bearing heads.

I am not much interested in solid lifters, as this car is planned to be a daughter's DD. Too rattle-some. And besides, I have a couple sets of new hydraulic lifters.

Retired? Only as a moderator. After a recent list interaction, I was reminded that I spend about one hundred times more time moderating than Opel-fixing. And since neither of my Opels are running, an INFINITE number of times more moderating that Opel-driving. Maybe when I get an Opel running, I'll come back.

Thanks for your help.

[nobody]

to use hydraulics on the solid grind might cost you a set of lifters. Schneider cams in Cali have done several cams for members here with good results for 75 bucks. I know shipping is an issue but options don't hurt. Have some fun with the cars.

[jeff denton]

Keith, I heard there is a cam grinder around here, could find out exactly who and where if you'd like.

[GTJIM]

Originally Posted by kwilford Maybe another option would be to have the cam re-ground to a hydraulic profile. I am not much interested in solid lifters, as this car is planned to be a daughter's DD. Too rattle-some. And besides, I have a couple sets of new hydraulic lifters. Retired? Only as a moderator. Thanks for your help.

Keith, Your efforts on behalf of the Opel Community have been very much appreciated. Good luck with the Opel projects - and don't be a stranger here! Let us know how they progress from time to time.

RE: The cam. As you have hydraulic lifters and a new cam the most risk free option is a nice hydraulic grind on the cam. What better "core" for the regrind than an unworn, mechanical, cam!

[Gary]

Keith - PM your address to me. I have a new, still-in-the-box, stock grind TRW cam sitting in my shed.

[Manta72]

For your requirement, I would recommend that you install an original OPEL GT/E camshaft. This was the camshaft fitted to fuel injected Opels sold in Europe. I have used this camshaft with different with the 32/36 carb and also this is the camshaft in my current 2X40DCOE Weber carburator set up. It works really well. It will idle with a slight lump at 1.000 rpm and (with my previous 32/36DGV or 32/36DCD) rev up to 6.500 rpm with good power. You'll need to buy the matching lifters for the cam. Note: This is an original Opel part, not a regrind!

For a more radical approach, yo can try the Steinmetz ST17 or Irmscher 555.1 camshafts. These are much "wilder" cams and will need further modifications such as a twin carburator set-up, bigger valves, ported heads, and a good exhaust system. I've used an Irmscnher 555.1 camshaft with 2X40DFO Weber carburators. Worked pretty well once I ot the jets right...

I will post the photos for these as soon as figue out how to post photos on the site.

[namba209]

Manta, it's really simple to attach pics to a response. Just scroll down the reply to thread page and you'll find a "manage attachments" button, click on that and yuou'll be able to go to the folder/file in your computer that has the pics and you upload them. Just be sure the pics size are no greater than 600 pixels either in height or width and they'll load right up. HTH.

[Manta72]

Please go to the thread "1971 Opel Manta project". There you will find photographs of my GT/E Camshaft and the matching lifters. Note the parts number of the items for your reference. You can still order these parts from an Opel dealer.

This camshaft is for a 1900cc GT/E. Should you want something original but a little more powerful, try ordering a 2.o liter fuel injection cam. This is also known as a GT/R camshaft.