Torque......?

[Stan Arza]

Hello, long time reader, 3rd time poster.

I've had my '73 GT for about Two years, I've really enjoyed the whole feel of the car, especially the Cable clutch, The perfect weight and feel, all my "friends" (if you can call non-opelers that) say it's way to stiff, as well as the slight understeer, which is great for sliding around corners purposefully and not looking like a goofy idiot. Anywho, enough babbling, I do not enjoy the lack of power. and since I've recently lost fourth gear (bad synchro ring) the lack of good MPG or top speed above 80KMH. I dont have a bottomless container type recepticle of funding, but im not broke either.

What I'm looking for: Gob's of Torque, I dont really care too much for high RPMs, Narrow power bands, or rough Idling- ultra responsiveness, I'm not that great a driver and would prefer a near flat torque and HP curve/Broad powerband, a stock feeling flywheel, and a nice Five-speed.

From what I've read my best Choice, while keeping it Adam O. materials, Seems to be:

2.0 Block with a 2.2 Crank
Mild Cam
I have no Idea what carb. would be best.
Getrag 5 speed
I also have no Idea what clutch would be best
Some kind of Rearend with an Lsd, as one wheel skidmarks are getting a little old
and of course suspension and brake upgrades.

I dont seem to have too many options for the suspension and brake stuff, So a call to Gil at OGTS should get that squared away, same with the Getrag, But I'm looking for a Reliable, Low-end Torque, broad Powerband, type of motor, I don't think this is probably the approach to the fastest car, but with my driving style, I think I'd get the most enjoyment out of a setup like this, I'd like to autocross, but don't mind being non-competitive and put in an unfair class as I'm young, underfunded, underexperienced, and not really that competitive anyways.

So um, Any suggestions on motor/cam/carb/set up, and who might have what I'm looking for. Anyone tried this before. I've looked around a bunch, and It feels like more Opelitis Carriers seem to either keep it straight stock, or go for the High Compression/RPM set up. Also, I've looked around on the Rear End swaps, and it seems like most options would put me out of even SM2 runs at SCCA events, since I'd be going with BMW or probably Suzuki parts. I dont think I'd mind being lapped and lapped in an SM2 class, but I would mind running Modified class, since I would probably not be allowed to run with $500,000 cars being the pauper I am. I believe I read a post about the Opel GT having an LSD in YouRope, but I don't think I could make cash shoot out of certain areas fast enough to make that happen.

Sorry to type so much, I guess I'm looking for something pretty specific here, but I'm open to all suggestions, as I know very little about what would have good balance between the parts.

Tungsten Foot Tristan

[rockytopmark]

Add to all that, the Intake Manifold modifications (Porting and Torquering) that RallyBob has documented so well. And Put a Weber carb on, in place of the stock Solex, at a minimum.

[baronbors]

I dont have a bottomless container type recepticle of funding, but im not broke either.



From what I've read my best Choice, while keeping it Adam O. materials, Seems to be:

2.0 Block with a 2.2 Crank
Mild Cam
I have no Idea what carb. would be best.
Getrag 5 speed
I also have no Idea what clutch would be best
Some kind of Rearend with an Lsd, as one wheel skidmarks are getting a little old
and of course suspension and brake upgrades.

I'm young, underfunded, underexperienced, and not really that competitive anyways.

I would probably not be allowed to run with $500,000 cars being the pauper I am. I believe I read a post about the Opel GT having an LSD in YouRope, but I don't think I could make cash shoot out of certain areas fast enough to make that happen.


Tungsten Foot Tristan

Sell the Opel and buy a used Ferarri with the money you get from the sale
BTW could NOT figure You Rope- then read it out loud, think it's Europe. Being an 8th grade History and geography teacher helped . Good luck

[baz]

i like it tom tonight when i go for a beer and a quiz i will be a "you'r a pee'n" after 6 or 7 pints

[baronbors]

i like it tom tonight when i go for a beer and a quiz i will be a "you'r a pee'n" after 6 or 7 pints

6 or 7 pints- Heck most of our ladies in Texas don't hit the powder room until at least after the first 12 pack of Lone Star beer- by that time most of the men are starting to look yourapee'n to them.

[RallyBob]

So um, Any suggestions on motor/cam/carb/set up, and who might have what I'm looking for. Anyone tried this before. I've looked around a bunch, and It feels like more Opelitis Carriers seem to either keep it straight stock, or go for the High Compression/RPM set up.

A 2.2 crank is a great start. A 1.9/2.0's short stroke is the biggest reason for the lack of torque. High compression builds more hp, torque, and increased fuel mileage. The only true downsides to higher compression are the need for higher octane fuel and increased NOX emissions (not an issue in most states since the cars are so old).

I'd probably go with a 38 DGAS Weber on a ported intake with a 'raised' plenum, a long-tube small diameter header, a 2" exhaust, a strong electronic ignition, and a 1.9 head with slightly larger valves/pocket porting, and a mild split-duration hydraulic cam, preferably with tighter lobe separation angle and a bit of advance for even better torque. You should be able to mimick a stock EFI 2.2's power plus a bit more torque (about 115 hp and 130-140 lb ft or torque), but with the curve occuring lower in the rpm range.

Bob

[gtzero]

Sounds like all the requirements for a turbo diesel. They're coming on strong in Europe. Huge torque, great gas mileage, and not a lot of rpms.

[opeldean]

stan: Tom king AKA tking on this site has an extra 1or 2- 2.2 complete engines, with computers, fuel injection, alternator, dizzy,etc.. i have seen the motors, i think he his asking 1,500. they are in joplin mo in his garage.
I have a photo in my gallery, i think tom went 2.4 legere style

probably be the cheapest route...for the short term

[nobody]

Interesting, empty trailer and truck headed back from that way. Hum let me think. 2.2 turbo wagon has a nice ring to it.

[oldopelguy]

2.2 turbo wagon has a nice ring to it.

Yeah, a Kadett wagon!

[RallyBob]

Yeah, a Kadett wagon!

So Stephen, how's that turbo project soming along anyway? I'm still waiting for pics of a Kadett wagon with Steinmetz flares....

[Stan Arza]

Thanks for all the awesome suggestions, I'm always amazed at knowledge and helpful people are on this site, it's surreal. Anywho, is this the Tom King you were referring to?

http://opelgt.com/forums/member.php?u=12592

If so, I'll shoot him an Message later today.

BTW, Rallybob, I don't think I could do much to make my car any worse as far as Emissions go, The last time I tested I scored about 1750 Hydrocarbons, and the Max accepted is about 800. I'm guessing it'd be cleaner to propel my Opel with a Hairspray and Styrofoam Ramjet, than "Old Sloppy," my engine's nickname.

Any advice on how to get an LSD and still run in a SCCA class that doesn't involve sponsors and JawDrop Expense tallies. I believe I read a post saying the Manta B LSD will just stuff right in to GT housing (I have a 73). Will the rest of the rearend components handle the power from the 2.2?
Thanks for all the responses

[opeldean]

Anywho, is this the Tom King you were referring to?

http://opelgt.com/forums/member.php?u=12592

this is a photo from last year

[RallyBob]

Any advice on how to get an LSD and still run in a SCCA class that doesn't involve sponsors and JawDrop Expense tallies. I believe I read a post saying the Manta B LSD will just stuff right in to GT housing (I have a 73). Will the rest of the rearend components handle the power from the 2.2?
Thanks for all the responses

Yes, a Manta B LSD will fit the later GT housing ('71-'73). However you still have to import one from Europe, and condition may be questionable. Then there's the installation, and the new parts (bearings/shims). While this is certainly cheaper than a new Quaife or ZF ($1200-1300 just for the lsd), it's still not cheap.

The rest of the diff should handle a warmed over 2.2 no sweat, unless you hammer it from a standstill with sticky tires. A limited slip will add to the stress of the torque tube shaft, since there will be less wheelspin, and more grip.

[oldopelguy]

So Stephen, how's that turbo project soming along anyway? I'm still waiting for pics of a Kadett wagon with Steinmetz flares....

Not trying to take over a thread here, but there is good news on my own front, some of which might actually help here too.

I dropped the shortblock off this morning for the required machine work to make the 2.2 a go. The machinist seemed pretty confident, and is expecting a turnaround on the motor in the 2 week time frame. The price is definatly right, right at $200 for all the machine work isn't too shabby for a 2.2, especially when I have fewer than $350 in the rest of the parts. How do you build a 2.2L Opel short block for <$600? Here's the recipe:

-Start with any Opel 1.9 block, they'll all do, but preferably one not overbored too much yet.
-Add a 2.2 crank from Europe. In my case that was pretty inexpensive, some patience on e-bay and a friendly moderator in the UK made it happen.
-Add a set of 81-82 Ford 255 v-8 pistons and rings, scored new from e-bay for $125 for the set of 8. The bore size on these pistons works out to just shy of 94mm, which is a pretty safe overbore for the 1.9 block, and the pin height is pretty darn good for a 2.2 crank, yeilding roughly 8.5:1 or so static compression, if my math is correct, with my 2.2 head. Sure they are only available as cast pistons, but adding in the .912" pin (Opel is .906", Chevy is .927"), the price, and the over 1/4" thick piston tops, I'm fine with taking the chance. They also have just over 3/16" thick top ring lands, which is almost twice what the Opel 2.2 piston has. Oh, and they weigh within 6 grams of the stock 2.2 pistons too.
-Drop the crank, block, pistons, and a set of forged rods off at the machine shop and $200 later the work should be done. The machinist is going to:
-clean and magniflux the block, crank, and rods
-enlarge the small end of the rods, and press fit the pistons and pins
-Bore the block for the larger pistons
-turn down rod and main bearings as required
-align bore the block, if required

My local shop doesn't have provisions for balancing the works, so I'm going to put it together and run it as is to see how it goes and evaluate further at that point. With a full spare set of pistons waiting, I figure I can have the new parts balance later if the motor absolutely needs it or I blow it up.

I still haven't purchased a computer to use with the EFI and the turbo yet, so in the mean time I'm finish welding a fabricated long runner SSD manifold for the 2.2 head. I'll still have to find a decent-sized sidedraft carb for it, but I'm sure someone will loan me one or I'll keep scrounging 'till I turn one up.

The real kicker for the car is the drivetrain though. I currently have in the shop a Sidekick rear axle with a 3.8something gearing all set up to bolt in the car, along with what should be a working overdrive automatic with a 2.9 or so to one first gear. Should be fun when it all comes together.

[Lasse H]

Any advice on how to get an LSD and still run in a SCCA class that doesn't involve sponsors and JawDrop Expense tallies. I believe I read a post saying the Manta B LSD will just stuff right in to GT housing (I have a 73).

I'm not sure if this is new information, but here in Finland some have installed LSD of early Omega A 2,0l to older Opels (Manta/Ascona/Kadett C). I think it should fit easily to later GTs as well.
Here some pictures and instructions (in Finnish):
http://www.opel6070club.com/lukko_kac/index.htm

As far as I know LSD was standard equipment in every Omega and GT(!) sold in this country. Nowadays price range of those Omega diffs is something like 50-150 euros. Of course a bit luck might be needed to find one. Too bad my GT is imported from USA and has an early model rear axle...

However, I have no idea if this little Omega LSD is suitable for racing purposes at all. Manta B LSDs I've seen for sale lately have usually been much more expensive (300-500 euros).