New Step by Step GT build - Page 2

Washout · 12-01-2006

I'd like a kit to make the entire front end pivot up like a vett. This would make lots of room for engine mods and new suspensions.

hustlerzlife · 12-01-2006

If you're gonna make a kit, maybe try not to have it be for body work. That requires a lot of specialty tools which me and I assume others don't have. IMHO

blancojp · 12-01-2006

OK, let us do a primary sum up of all said.

1) Tilt front end is not practical on an Opel since the front strength comes from the unibody construction. Modifications to do this are great and most people will toss the vehicle due to it's complexity.

2) T-tops can be done if you weld the upper door frame and re-use the cut roof panels. Glass tops would be hard but smoked plexiglass would not be that bad, specially matching the curvature of the roof. Lambo style doors I'm still thinking about since there will be wiring and clearance issues to resolve if used. This type of conversion will not be easy for the everyday Opeler per say.

3) If the car will be a conversion, engine should be something common that you can find at any junk yard or in crate status. A 4-cyl or 6-cyl should be more than enough to obtain the power curve we need. The idea is to gain horse power and performance for as little cash as possible.

4) Power windows, locks and A/c are not a big deal and can be accomplished very easy with new/salvage parts. Also the vehicle will have new wiring, new instrument panel and a 200-400watt stereo system.

5) Posi rear end (S-10 with torque tube) is no problem however an individual rear disk brake kit would have to be done for the Opel rearend.

6) Suspension, I would change the front end to a mustang II type coil over system, welded not bolted in place. This will make the conversion simple and parts can be found just about anywhere. The Opel suspension crossmember would require susbtantial alteration just to add the coil overs and the result would not be that great, been there, done that.

I would also like to limit the amount of fiberglass on the car. I have never in my life used Bondo and anyone in my shop that comes near a can gets fired on the spot. If any panels are to be installed, they must be compatible with either body solder or Lab metal.

I think it is starting to come together, we might just build a hell of a vehicle.

namba209 · 12-01-2006

Originally Posted by blancojp

3) If the car will be a conversion, engine should be something common that you can find at any junk yard or in crate status. A 4-cyl or 6-cyl should be more than enough to obtain the power curve we need. The idea is to gain horse power and performance for as little cash as possible.

JB, if I can suggest this, if you do drop a GM 60 degree engine in the car, how about making up a template for the driver's side footwell and wiper well for the folks to cut out of theirs. It would make it so much easier to just draw the lines around the template and and cut on the lines. Also an access panel in the new footwell sheetmetal to access the exhaust manifold bolts, along with a hole in the pax side to access the bottom rear exhaust manifold bolt. It's just a couple of things I found out and did on Willit? If you do decide on this engine and a T-5, I can e-mail you the basic dimensions for the engine and tranny subframes I made. They're rough approximations and will need some finish work to fit exactly. You're more than welcome to use them. Also, I can send you the electrical connections I made for the 3.4 SFI computer and engine, if that will help.

blancojp · 12-01-2006

Namba thanks for the offer but I already have a kit for this engine for the GT and the MG. The kits has hedders, all mounting brackets and transmission mount for the T5.

Does the engine in this picture look familiar???

namba209 · 12-01-2006

Originally Posted by blancojp

Does the engine in this picture look familiar???

Yeah, as a matter of fact it does. Except there appears to be a lot more room in the MG, front to rear. On Willit? the rear, driver's side plenum protrudes into the wiper well, just a tad. All in all that's a very neat install and it appears to be just as busy in there as mine is.

blancojp · 12-01-2006

The MG is about 2" wider at the rear rails but 3.5" shorter length wise inside the engine bay than a GT. On this car we used a reworked/reprogrammed computer unit and eliminated about 30% of the wiring. This car also has a ford posi rear end with 3:45 gears which goes 0-60 in about 3 seconds. But a V-6 in a GT is no problem at all since I can use the same kit as the MG including our hedders.

Namba where does your crank pully sit on your vehicle with reference to the front suspension crossmember??

jordan · 12-02-2006

The v6 mg looks like it is also on the bottle as well, is that right?

Jonzo · 12-02-2006

How about a Gull Wing-Targa with a Mid-engined V-12 and an Independent Rear Suspension with Watts Linkage and MacPherson Struts?

I'm not exactly sure how that would work, but I suspect it might call for some frame stiffening and maybe even cutting the heater box!

Jonzo

p.s. yeah, I'm feeling like a smart arse today.

namba209 · 12-02-2006

Originally Posted by blancojp

Namba where does your crank pully sit on your vehicle with reference to the front suspension crossmember??

By eyeballing down the face of the crank pulley, it sits about 1/4" behind the bottom flange of the front suspension crossmember. You gotta take into account the angle of the engine though. I just ran a tape measure from the radiator (a rebuilt 3-row) in the stock location to the top edge of the crank pulley, and it's 4.75". HTH.

baz · 12-02-2006

Originally Posted by Jonzo

How about a Gull Wing-Targa with a Mid-engined V-12 and an Independent Rear Suspension with Watts Linkage and MacPherson Struts?

I'm not exactly sure how that would work, but I suspect it might call for some frame stiffening and maybe even cutting the heater box!

Jonzo

p.s. yeah, I'm feeling like a smart arse today.

ah but not too smart

watts linkage is used on a live or beam axel and theres no need to cut the heater box if its rear mid engine

front mid engine requires some cutting though

blancojp · 12-02-2006

Namba, thanks for the info. In all of the V=6s I have installed the crank pulley is about one inch over the aft side of the cross member. There should not be any angles on the motor, it should be leveled side to side and front to back. I know this is hard to do since you have to do the in/out type scenario several times. On a carburated crate 3.4L, we take about 30mm off the driver's side footwell and all fits just fine, as long as you have the crank pulley on the crossmember as described.

Well today I went to pick up our car and found it has no vin markings anywhere. The owner has a title however I have no means of checking if the serial number is correct. So we scratched the purchase and continue to look for a vehicle to work on.

BTW Jonso, your idea has already been done and the car is in a museum up in Detroit. Since the creator of the car realized after completion that the engine sat where the driver and passenger sits, he got the "don't let this happen to you" award.

GTJIM · 12-02-2006

The concept behind this is awesome! Kits low enough priced and easy enough to install that most Opelers can complete the modification. So we are looking at $500 to $1,000 and say a maximum of 4 full weekends to install. Right?

Considering this by the numbers:

1) Neither convertible nor Aero conversions fit the concept - but a Targa Top using the removed sections of the original roof certainly does. The strengthened non-removable centre section of this type of top retains the structural integrity of the GT (or "other" Opel!) body and means that little or no underbody reinforcing is necessary. Perhaps a further kit comprising of CNC bent rectangular tube that follows the contour of the existing chassis rails may be an idea to cover higher powered engine options and/or add to chassis rigidity.

2) Front Coil Over Suspension - Nice but needs to be a bolt in unit that comprises of a cross member that contains the suspension forces and attaches to the original eight mounting bolts. May be too expensive but worth considering.
It may be better to have a suspension kit with a new leaf spring, lowering shackles of the straight type rather than 'cranked' and Urethane bushes for the original suspension. It is gravely under-rated and can work very well with a few modifications that can be installed during a front-end rebuild.

3) 150-200 HP Motor. Something that bolts in relatively easily without body modification and has a RWD bolt-up gearbox available (either man OR auto!). That limits it to a 2.0 - 2.5 litre four cylinder. V6's are a nice thought but involve way more than $500 - $1,000 in mods.
The 2.3L ford or 'Iron Duke' motor spring to mind or the Eco-Tec GM motors.

4) Power steering - Is it really needed in such a light "Sports" car ?? Maybe as an easily bolted in replacement for the old worn GT unit. This involves power steering pump, pipes, brackets and drive pulleys as well as the rack unit.

5) Posi Diff - This is needed due to the old age and fragility of the original and allows thoughts of rear disc brakes if the late Camaro 7.5"/7625" diff is used as they already have a Torsen Posi .... and disc brakes. The decisions here are: a) width b) suspension mounting c) torque tube replacement d) wheel studs - modify to 4 X 100 or change the front to 5 stud?

HTH

bendele · 12-02-2006

There was another thread awhile back were folks were brainstorming various kits they'd like to see Rally Bob make.

http://www.opelgt.com/forums/perform...ight=Rally+bob

Check it out, it's like a laundry list of great stuff.

namba209 · 12-03-2006

Originally Posted by blancojp

Namba, thanks for the info. In all of the V=6s I have installed the crank pulley is about one inch over the aft side of the cross member. There should not be any angles on the motor, it should be leveled side to side and front to back.

JP, I'm kinda at a loss here, maybe not, though, as to the tranny you used. On Willit?, I built two identical dollies that hold both the original 1.9/4 speed tranny and the 3.4/T-5 package. The dollies were made using the original engine crossmember and tranny mount holes in the car. I used the dollies to measure and build the engine and tranny support mounts for the V-6/T-5 setup. My major concern on the mounts was to be sure the T-5 shifter was centered in the console hole. That dictated where the rest of the package was in relation to the front suspension crossmember, and the length of the modified driveshaft. By using identical dollies I was able to get the engine at the same crankshaft angle as the original package. I must admit, that I screwed up on the first attempt making the engine crossmember, but got it right the second time. I hear you on the in and out of the package, mine's been in and out 5-6 times during this project. A carbed 3.4? Interesting, what about the ignition system? Do you use a distributor or the computer controlled coil packs? Having to use a dissy has stopped more than one of these swaps that I know of. Keep the info coming, please.

blancojp · 12-03-2006

Thanks GTJIM for your input. I did the same thing with MG's several years ago and worked out very well. I do not agree with some of the items though because good engineering should be functional and cost effective. We produce a kit for the MG that allows installation of a 2.8L/3.4L engine with either a 5sp or automatic for $800.00 and includes all you need to do the work except the drive shaft. We also have suspension kits, Ford rear end kits and brake kits. Most people get their cars done in 3-5 days without any problems.

The idea is to improve the GT with modern components at a reasonable cost without losing the Opel identity. I have done most of the research on what can be used, what works and easy finds on all of the hotrods I have built. Perhaps we can apply this to the Opel with some general benefits.

blancojp · 12-04-2006

Namba sorry for the slow reply but my computer died yesterday in the middle of a post. We basically do not create anything to install A V-6, we reuse the Opel crossmember but modify it a small amount. We start by making both engine mounting post the same height and section the crossbar for oil pan clearance. You then drop the engine in and use metal shims to level in place. Depending on the tranny used, you might have a down angle on the tail shaft of up to 5 degrees maximum.

We also use either a T5 or a T10 transmission from a V8 car, not an S-10. The V8 tranny has better gear ratios, same length and it is alot stronger. I believe a T5 from a V8 car will work better for your setup since it has a 3:08 first gear. You do however need to remove 3mm from the input shaft guide for it to seat properly on a V-6 crank/flywheel/clutch assembly.

namba209 · 12-04-2006

JP, I haven't checked the installed angle of the package, I'll do it tomorrow and let you know. I'll put a meter on the plenum and see what it reads. I had to drop the center section of the engine crossmember I built 3" to clear the front of the pan by about 1/4" and shim the generic rubber mounts to get that clearance. I guess I was lucky, I got the flyweel, clutch and pressure plate with the 92 S-10 T-5 and it bolted up perfectly to the engine. You're right about the gearing though, the S-10 has a real low 1st gear. Also the speedo gear and sensor need to be for the engine, not tranny, at least on my setup. From what I understand from the earlier first swap done, the car tranny shifter won't fit in the console hole, thus my reason for getting the S-10 T-5. Later on I may change the gearset from a car, just to get a better ratio and of course the taller 5th gear, too. Keep the info coming, I'm learning something each time you respond.

namba209 · 12-05-2006

JP, here's the info on the installed package angle. I put an incidence gage on the bottom edge of the door jam to check the car's angle, sitting on an incline. then put the gage on the front top of the plenum. The gage indicted 0 degrees in relation to the car. That leads me to believe the dollies I made up for both packages were correct and I was pretty close when I made up the mounts for the V-6. Sometimes even a wrench turner gets lucky.

Evan Sampatacos · 12-05-2006

Consider making the kit completely "bolt on" for the majority of us out here with less than complete shops. That probably means an inline engine; suggest the "Atlas" 5 and 5 speed from a Canyon/Colorado/Hummer 3. Its 220hp/3.5L or 242hp/3.7L depending the year. My tape measure says it's close to fitting. Might take moving the radiator to the front side of the forward frame bulkhead/frame and a fabricated intake manifold. Use the S-10 posi rearend w 1998 or later disk brakes. Use the existing front suspension crossmember with slightly longer, custom A-arms, lower arm geometry modified to allow Rallye Bob shackles w upper pivot moved up to maintain original ride height, 80's S-10 2wd spindles and ball joints, Wilwood S-10 11.75diameter lightweight front brake kit with aluminum hubs.

That should all bolt on w/o ha

12-02-2006	#33 (permalink)
jordan Moderator Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: corning ny 14830 Posts: 2,105 Classified Rating: 100% (1)	The v6 mg looks like it is also on the bottle as well, is that right? Last edited by jordan; 12-02-2006 at 11:49 AM..

12-02-2006	#38 (permalink)
GTJIM 4246 Post Club Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: New Zealand Posts: 5,498 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	K.i.s.s. The concept behind this is awesome! Kits low enough priced and easy enough to install that most Opelers can complete the modification. So we are looking at $500 to $1,000 and say a maximum of 4 full weekends to install. Right? Considering this by the numbers: 1) Neither convertible nor Aero conversions fit the concept - but a Targa Top using the removed sections of the original roof certainly does. The strengthened non-removable centre section of this type of top retains the structural integrity of the GT (or "other" Opel!) body and means that little or no underbody reinforcing is necessary. Perhaps a further kit comprising of CNC bent rectangular tube that follows the contour of the existing chassis rails may be an idea to cover higher powered engine options and/or add to chassis rigidity. 2) Front Coil Over Suspension - Nice but needs to be a bolt in unit that comprises of a cross member that contains the suspension forces and attaches to the original eight mounting bolts. May be too expensive but worth considering. It may be better to have a suspension kit with a new leaf spring, lowering shackles of the straight type rather than 'cranked' and Urethane bushes for the original suspension. It is gravely under-rated and can work very well with a few modifications that can be installed during a front-end rebuild. 3) 150-200 HP Motor. Something that bolts in relatively easily without body modification and has a RWD bolt-up gearbox available (either man OR auto!). That limits it to a 2.0 - 2.5 litre four cylinder. V6's are a nice thought but involve way more than $500 - $1,000 in mods. The 2.3L ford or 'Iron Duke' motor spring to mind or the Eco-Tec GM motors. 4) Power steering - Is it really needed in such a light "Sports" car ?? Maybe as an easily bolted in replacement for the old worn GT unit. This involves power steering pump, pipes, brackets and drive pulleys as well as the rack unit. 5) Posi Diff - This is needed due to the old age and fragility of the original and allows thoughts of rear disc brakes if the late Camaro 7.5"/7625" diff is used as they already have a Torsen Posi .... and disc brakes. The decisions here are: a) width b) suspension mounting c) torque tube replacement d) wheel studs - modify to 4 X 100 or change the front to 5 stud? HTH

12-02-2006	#39 (permalink)
bendele Opeler Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Wellington Co Posts: 62 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	Lots of kit type ideas There was another thread awhile back were folks were brainstorming various kits they'd like to see Rally Bob make. http://www.opelgt.com/forums/perform...ight=Rally+bob Check it out, it's like a laundry list of great stuff.

12-01-2006	#26 (permalink)
Washout Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Ohio for now, but Texas is Home Posts: 337 Classified Rating: 0% (0) Logbook Entries: 4	I'd like a kit to make the entire front end pivot up like a vett. This would make lots of room for engine mods and new suspensions.

12-01-2006	#27 (permalink)
hustlerzlife Opeler Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Sept-May 47803 else 90245 Posts: 154 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	If you're gonna make a kit, maybe try not to have it be for body work. That requires a lot of specialty tools which me and I assume others don't have. IMHO

12-01-2006	#28 (permalink)
blancojp Restoration Dude Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Acworth, GA Posts: 616 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	OK, let us do a primary sum up of all said. 1) Tilt front end is not practical on an Opel since the front strength comes from the unibody construction. Modifications to do this are great and most people will toss the vehicle due to it's complexity. 2) T-tops can be done if you weld the upper door frame and re-use the cut roof panels. Glass tops would be hard but smoked plexiglass would not be that bad, specially matching the curvature of the roof. Lambo style doors I'm still thinking about since there will be wiring and clearance issues to resolve if used. This type of conversion will not be easy for the everyday Opeler per say. 3) If the car will be a conversion, engine should be something common that you can find at any junk yard or in crate status. A 4-cyl or 6-cyl should be more than enough to obtain the power curve we need. The idea is to gain horse power and performance for as little cash as possible. 4) Power windows, locks and A/c are not a big deal and can be accomplished very easy with new/salvage parts. Also the vehicle will have new wiring, new instrument panel and a 200-400watt stereo system. 5) Posi rear end (S-10 with torque tube) is no problem however an individual rear disk brake kit would have to be done for the Opel rearend. 6) Suspension, I would change the front end to a mustang II type coil over system, welded not bolted in place. This will make the conversion simple and parts can be found just about anywhere. The Opel suspension crossmember would require susbtantial alteration just to add the coil overs and the result would not be that great, been there, done that. I would also like to limit the amount of fiberglass on the car. I have never in my life used Bondo and anyone in my shop that comes near a can gets fired on the spot. If any panels are to be installed, they must be compatible with either body solder or Lab metal. I think it is starting to come together, we might just build a hell of a vehicle.

12-01-2006	#32 (permalink)
blancojp Restoration Dude Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Acworth, GA Posts: 616 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	The MG is about 2" wider at the rear rails but 3.5" shorter length wise inside the engine bay than a GT. On this car we used a reworked/reprogrammed computer unit and eliminated about 30% of the wiring. This car also has a ford posi rear end with 3:45 gears which goes 0-60 in about 3 seconds. But a V-6 in a GT is no problem at all since I can use the same kit as the MG including our hedders. Namba where does your crank pully sit on your vehicle with reference to the front suspension crossmember??

12-02-2006	#34 (permalink)
Jonzo Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Tampa, Florida Posts: 197 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	How about a Gull Wing-Targa with a Mid-engined V-12 and an Independent Rear Suspension with Watts Linkage and MacPherson Struts? I'm not exactly sure how that would work, but I suspect it might call for some frame stiffening and maybe even cutting the heater box! Jonzo p.s. yeah, I'm feeling like a smart arse today.

12-02-2006	#37 (permalink)
blancojp Restoration Dude Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Acworth, GA Posts: 616 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	Namba, thanks for the info. In all of the V=6s I have installed the crank pulley is about one inch over the aft side of the cross member. There should not be any angles on the motor, it should be leveled side to side and front to back. I know this is hard to do since you have to do the in/out type scenario several times. On a carburated crate 3.4L, we take about 30mm off the driver's side footwell and all fits just fine, as long as you have the crank pulley on the crossmember as described. Well today I went to pick up our car and found it has no vin markings anywhere. The owner has a title however I have no means of checking if the serial number is correct. So we scratched the purchase and continue to look for a vehicle to work on. BTW Jonso, your idea has already been done and the car is in a museum up in Detroit. Since the creator of the car realized after completion that the engine sat where the driver and passenger sits, he got the "don't let this happen to you" award.

12-03-2006	#41 (permalink)
blancojp Restoration Dude Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Acworth, GA Posts: 616 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	Thanks GTJIM for your input. I did the same thing with MG's several years ago and worked out very well. I do not agree with some of the items though because good engineering should be functional and cost effective. We produce a kit for the MG that allows installation of a 2.8L/3.4L engine with either a 5sp or automatic for $800.00 and includes all you need to do the work except the drive shaft. We also have suspension kits, Ford rear end kits and brake kits. Most people get their cars done in 3-5 days without any problems. The idea is to improve the GT with modern components at a reasonable cost without losing the Opel identity. I have done most of the research on what can be used, what works and easy finds on all of the hotrods I have built. Perhaps we can apply this to the Opel with some general benefits.

12-04-2006	#42 (permalink)
blancojp Restoration Dude Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Acworth, GA Posts: 616 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	Namba sorry for the slow reply but my computer died yesterday in the middle of a post. We basically do not create anything to install A V-6, we reuse the Opel crossmember but modify it a small amount. We start by making both engine mounting post the same height and section the crossbar for oil pan clearance. You then drop the engine in and use metal shims to level in place. Depending on the tranny used, you might have a down angle on the tail shaft of up to 5 degrees maximum. We also use either a T5 or a T10 transmission from a V8 car, not an S-10. The V8 tranny has better gear ratios, same length and it is alot stronger. I believe a T5 from a V8 car will work better for your setup since it has a 3:08 first gear. You do however need to remove 3mm from the input shaft guide for it to seat properly on a V-6 crank/flywheel/clutch assembly.

12-04-2006	#43 (permalink)
namba209 5,000 Post Club Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Imperial Beach, CA South of San Diego Posts: 5,968 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	JP, I haven't checked the installed angle of the package, I'll do it tomorrow and let you know. I'll put a meter on the plenum and see what it reads. I had to drop the center section of the engine crossmember I built 3" to clear the front of the pan by about 1/4" and shim the generic rubber mounts to get that clearance. I guess I was lucky, I got the flyweel, clutch and pressure plate with the 92 S-10 T-5 and it bolted up perfectly to the engine. You're right about the gearing though, the S-10 has a real low 1st gear. Also the speedo gear and sensor need to be for the engine, not tranny, at least on my setup. From what I understand from the earlier first swap done, the car tranny shifter won't fit in the console hole, thus my reason for getting the S-10 T-5. Later on I may change the gearset from a car, just to get a better ratio and of course the taller 5th gear, too. Keep the info coming, I'm learning something each time you respond.

12-05-2006	#44 (permalink)
namba209 5,000 Post Club Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Imperial Beach, CA South of San Diego Posts: 5,968 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	JP, here's the info on the installed package angle. I put an incidence gage on the bottom edge of the door jam to check the car's angle, sitting on an incline. then put the gage on the front top of the plenum. The gage indicted 0 degrees in relation to the car. That leads me to believe the dollies I made up for both packages were correct and I was pretty close when I made up the mounts for the V-6. Sometimes even a wrench turner gets lucky.