COMMENTS - 72 GT Resto Thread

[Gary]

Originally Posted by opelspyder Well no project forum has been built

The program is still in Beta, Keith. I am waiting until it is at least in a 'Release Candidate" state. Too many bugs right now... Sorry.

[newman27]

Keith,

Thanks for posting these updates I am very pleased with how things are progressing - I can't wait to see the finished product!

Matt

[BQS4]

To all members out there:
Gary has not gotten the program for Keith's thread on Newman27's resto going. We would like ALL comments to be placed here in this thread to keep the resto thread clean and unhampered till such program can be up and running. If you have any questions/comments about a particular post, then, PLEASE use that post # in your post. DO NOT post in the actual thread itself, PLEASE!!!
The Mods

[jvandyke]

Make a video like this one. Superspeed, music. Too cool. Lots of work in the video, as much as the car....almost.
http://www.opelgt.com/forums/2d-body...dy-repair.html

[newman27]

Link to Start of Restoration Thread

I've come to learn that there are two parts to a restoration project. The hard part is the actual work and I'm going to leave replies to technical questions to Keith. However, the other part of the project is making a lot of little decisions along the way that affect the finished product and the amount of money spent. So, to get things going here and to maybe help others in making their own decisions, I thought I would post some of the thoughts behind what has been done thus far.

Post #6 - Rotisserie:
So, this was a big part of why I decided to go with Keith and Mid-Southern Restoration (MSR): they have the proper tools. Keith already had the rotisserie and had used it on prior Opel GT projects. In addition, he provided a very detailed good faith estimate and had proven experience with the car. I could see from MSR's web site that they do quality work. Finally, Keith had several contacts for acquiring parts in addition to everyone's favorite: OGTS.

Bottom line: Pick someone with a proven track record and direct Opel GT knowledge (if possible) and that has the tools necessary to do a quality job. This will bring you peace of mind.

Post #8 - Rust:
My car had a decent amount of rust that was visible. It also turned out to have a good amount the wasn't visible like behind the headlight buckets. Also, unknown to me, my car had bondo repairs done to it sometime in the past by a PO. Given that my highest priority is getting the body sound, I'm willing to spend as much of my budget as needed to fix these types of problems via metal work.

Bottom line: Be prepared for metal work to be more extensive than at first expected. Allocate as much of your budget as possible to fixing these issues right the first time.

Posts #11 and #12 - Powder Coating
Frankly, initially, I thought this would be a waste of money. I then learned of the double benefits of powder coating key parts of the car: the parts are protected from rust / corrosion and they look pretty cool. The protective nature of powder coating is why I decided to go ahead with this. The cool factor is a bonus.

Bottom line: Powder coating, even if having a show car isn't high on the priority list, is a good and relatively inexpensive way to add a layer of protection to key parts of the car while increasing its attractiveness. I'm sold on it now.

Post #14 - Engine Rebuild
Many years ago, I paid to have high compression pistons put on the car and a lot of other engine work done. Unfortunately, it wasn't long after this that some other issues caused me to park the car for the next eight plus years. Even so, I wanted to try to preserve as much of my prior investment as possible. So, where it made sense, I asked Keith the reuse parts or preserve parts as much as possible. I think he has done a good job of balancing the use of new parts and restoring old parts to come up with a reliable engine.

Bottom line: Try to work with whoever is restoring your car to make sure they know what you are trying to accomplish with respect to the reuse of parts. Also, communication here is paramount. Anytime the use of a new part versus restoring the old part is open for discussion, you want to be working with a restorer that wil call and give you the pros and cons and let you decide. Keith has done a great job of this and helped even someone like me, with only basic mechanical skills, understand the benefits and risks involved with each decision made.

Anyway, I hope these types of posts will help others that are considering having their car restored.

Matt

[namba209]

Keith, in the original resto thread, could you kindly post a pic of the spring removed from the front suspension, so folks can see just how much tension is on it, installed. Maybe then they can understand why we that have done the suspension upgrade continually preach Safey First when attempting to remove the front spring. TIA.

[soybean]

Ron, I think he will after he reads your post. Once people see how much the spring is arched maybe they will understand. Credit for post #47 should actually go to Keith Wilford. I copied his idea. Jarrell

[opelspyder]

Yes, but you helped lead the way. I will take some pictures tomorrow of final dissassembly. The tool worked great and I felt it was a really safe way to do it. I've done it with a jack and some wood with using a lift, and this still has it beat. I would recommend no other way than this and it is easy enough to make. I have another front suspension crossmember being powdercoated that was dissassembled a while back. It was in a lot better shape than Matt's. I am using his components and bushings from GT Source. It will be a little while before they arrive. I will also have some updates on other stuff powdercoated maybe this weekend. There is a lot of stuff that I did not take pictures of due to it would get rather boring (or at least when taking things apart) The transmission is shaping up too, will post pics of that as well soon. Basically I am waiting for my order to clear at GT Source before much more work gets done.
Keith

[22velocity]

Keith, the work you are doing on the 72 Gt looks great,I am enjoying reading all the details. I am a retired GM rep that used to drive Opel GT's for my company cars in the early 70's. I have a question for you, what would be a ball park figure for the type of restoration that you are doing on that 1972. Do you normally give a person a range of what a full body off restoration will run. Thanks in advance for your information. Frank

[neuropel]

Just an FYI...comments concerning the GT restoration have been consolidated into this thread. This will allow the actual restoration thread to remain focused on Keith's progress. Feel free to comment on the progress here!

Click here to go to Keith's Restoration Thread!

Thanks! And sorry for any confusion this might cause.

Todd K.

[opelspyder]

Yes, I (knowing quite a bit about these cars) can give a close guess on what things cost to replace and restore. I'm not perfect on this, its always hard to estimate that rusted bolt you spend an hour on removing, but I usually make up for it on other things that come off or go together smoothly. We do go by the hour here, but I can usually get a parts list and labor together and make a worse case senario.
Keith

[tekenaar]

GREAT job on the Resto thus far . . . something we'd all like to do, I'm sure, but most have no time, skill, patience or money to do to this extent!!

I know you probably know or have thought of it, but thought I'd mention it for everyone else here. In Post 17, you know the engine's mounting brackets!! are "side specific" because of the GTs engine tilt, right? In Post 20, now would be a good time to add a drain plug to the tranny bottom cover!

Like I said, just suggestions/reminders . . .

[kwilford]

Keith L, could you do me a favour and post some photos showing how the rotisserie mounts at the rear of the GT? I am building one right now and I have the front figured out and built (using extended 2x1 inch rectangular tubing as arms that bolt up to the bumper mounts and then a new set of holes deeper in), but I am puzzling over the rear mount. I was originally planning to mount to the outside of the rear bumper mounts, but it looks like you went THROUGH the tail-light holes and mounted to something inside. If you could take a photo of what you mounted to I would be grateful. Thanks!

[opelspyder]

When the car comes back from the sand blaster I will post pictures of the rear mounting. As far as the engine mounts. I had a discussion with a friend about this at one time, but we felt the metal clevises were the same, but that the engine tilt actually was caused by the crossmember that supports the engine with mounts and all. I will go and measure these again to be sure, but on the crossmember one side is higher than the other (side I mean posts)
Keith

[opelspyder]

I just measured the mounts and they are identical, the measurement from the oil pan to the top of the mounts are the same also 5inches. I believe the only tilt is caused by the Mounting member only
Keith

[hrcollinsjr]

Keith,

How about posting a better picture so some of us old folks won't think we're going blind.

Harold

[namba209]

Keith, IIRC and Otto, aka tekenaar, can/will confirm, there are also shims that go between the crossmember and the "frame rail" on the passenger side to induce the 10-14 degree tilt required for the air cleaner clearance

[hrcollinsjr]

Originally Posted by namba209 ...there are also shims that go between the crossmember and the "frame rail" on the passenger side to induce the 10-14 degree tilt required for the air cleaner clearance

It would take some pretty good shims to tilt it 10-14 degrees.


Harold

[GTJIM]

The motor tilt is 14 degrees - My GT had a hard, red, fibreboard shim of the same thickness between the motor mount cross member and both frame rails - so I do not think the shims themselves contribute to the lean ... it is all built into the towers that the engine mounts bolt on to.

[namba209]

That could be Jim, BTW, I had those Micarta shims too, but they were between the front suspension and frame rails. The shims I was referring to, two of different thicknesses, were between the rails and the inside mount bolt on the passenger side of the engine crossmember. Maybe it was to be sure of the correct tilt to compensate for the production line tolerances. IDK.

[opelspyder]

Namba, The there are metal shims on the engine crossmember on both sides. They are only the thickness of a washer. There are rectangular and are set on both sides. There is not any difference in the thickness that would make for any degree of tilt. Yes the front suspension does have two red long rectangular spacers but these have nothing to do with the spacing or tilt of the engine. The front suspension does not serve as an engine mount like in the Kadett. The tilt is caused by the engine crossmember cradle only. It is simply higher on one side than the other. I have had several of the metal engine brackets and compared and there is no difference from side to side. Please double check this on your side to be sure you are correct before stating why it tilts. I can only find this reason and I have seen this was discussion before. I am powder coating the shims as well Saturday and can take a picture of them to show they are the same and then I will take one of an engine crossmember to show the obvious hight difference.
Keith

[namba209]

That's interesting, Keith, that you have shims on both sides. Willit? only had shims on the passenger side when I pulled the engine/tranny for the swap. It could be, as I said, to make up for production line tolerances. I understand the micarta shims were for the front suspension, I was surprised that Jim's had them under the engine crossmember, which is why I mentioned it. Allowing for the expertise acknowledged on this site, I only repeated what was said about the reason for tilting the engine on a GT vice any other Opel with the 1.9 engine.

[tekenaar]

From the previous three posts there appears to be some confusion about the GT engine cradle spacers. Let me explain . . . just because none of the GTs came with front sway bars, doesn't mean that the front end, specifically the engine cradle, wasn't designed with sway bars in mind.

This is the sole reason for the steel spacers between the GT engine cradle and the chassis and located at the innermost vertical mounting bolt on each side of the cradle. The spacers are there because that's where they designed the sway bar brackets to attach. There are also two threaded holes in the engine cradle where the other side of each sway bar bracket is bolted on.

The two types of sway bars with which most of us are familiar are Addco and Lenk.

Lenk sway bars use the factory designed method of mounting them, i.e. you have to remove the engine cradle's inner two mounting bolts to remove the spacers and replace the spacers with the top ear of the swaybar mounts and held in place by the cradle's inner bolts. The bottom lip of the mount is fastened to the front of the cradle by screwing bolts into the threaded holes there:



Addco bars mount directly to the chassis with some drilling required:

[namba209]

Thanx Otto, now I won't put out erroneous info as far as the shims go, as it's now clear what their purpose was. The collective knowledge on this site is fantastic!

[opelspyder]

The engine mount ears are different. I stand corrected. Although they do not cause any type of tilt, the location holes for the actual engine mounts are offset from each other. looking on top of the engine mount ears, there is more thickness from the end of the ear to the beginning of the hole. This is on the driver's side only, and you should see this marked by a small drill mark such as a location hole right before it. This was to move the engine over (not tilting) about a 1/4 to 1/8 inch. If anyone gets a chance to look in a parts book before I do this afternoon, see if they show separate numbers for the left and right ears. I will take a picture of this later too. I have a lot of powdercoating first to finish
Keith