COMMENTS - 72 GT Resto Thread - Page 2

Gary · 01-29-2007

Originally Posted by opelspyder

Well no project forum has been built

The program is still in Beta, Keith. I am waiting until it is at least in a 'Release Candidate" state. Too many bugs right now... Sorry.

newman27 · 01-30-2007

Keith,

Thanks for posting these updates I am very pleased with how things are progressing - I can't wait to see the finished product!

Matt

BQS4 · 01-31-2007

To all members out there:
Gary has not gotten the program for Keith's thread on Newman27's resto going. We would like ALL comments to be placed here in this thread to keep the resto thread clean and unhampered till such program can be up and running. If you have any questions/comments about a particular post, then, PLEASE use that post # in your post. DO NOT post in the actual thread itself, PLEASE!!!

The Mods

jvandyke · 01-31-2007

Make a video like this one. Superspeed, music. Too cool. Lots of work in the video, as much as the car....almost.
http://www.opelgt.com/forums/2d-body...dy-repair.html

newman27 · 01-31-2007

Link to Start of Restoration Thread

I've come to learn that there are two parts to a restoration project. The hard part is the actual work and I'm going to leave replies to technical questions to Keith. However, the other part of the project is making a lot of little decisions along the way that affect the finished product and the amount of money spent. So, to get things going here and to maybe help others in making their own decisions, I thought I would post some of the thoughts behind what has been done thus far.

Post #6 - Rotisserie:
So, this was a big part of why I decided to go with Keith and Mid-Southern Restoration (MSR): they have the proper tools. Keith already had the rotisserie and had used it on prior Opel GT projects. In addition, he provided a very detailed good faith estimate and had proven experience with the car. I could see from MSR's web site that they do quality work. Finally, Keith had several contacts for acquiring parts in addition to everyone's favorite: OGTS.

Bottom line: Pick someone with a proven track record and direct Opel GT knowledge (if possible) and that has the tools necessary to do a quality job. This will bring you peace of mind.

Post #8 - Rust:
My car had a decent amount of rust that was visible. It also turned out to have a good amount the wasn't visible like behind the headlight buckets. Also, unknown to me, my car had bondo repairs done to it sometime in the past by a PO. Given that my highest priority is getting the body sound, I'm willing to spend as much of my budget as needed to fix these types of problems via metal work.

Bottom line: Be prepared for metal work to be more extensive than at first expected. Allocate as much of your budget as possible to fixing these issues right the first time.

Posts #11 and #12 - Powder Coating
Frankly, initially, I thought this would be a waste of money. I then learned of the double benefits of powder coating key parts of the car: the parts are protected from rust / corrosion and they look pretty cool. The protective nature of powder coating is why I decided to go ahead with this. The cool factor is a bonus.

Bottom line: Powder coating, even if having a show car isn't high on the priority list, is a good and relatively inexpensive way to add a layer of protection to key parts of the car while increasing its attractiveness. I'm sold on it now.

Post #14 - Engine Rebuild
Many years ago, I paid to have high compression pistons put on the car and a lot of other engine work done. Unfortunately, it wasn't long after this that some other issues caused me to park the car for the next eight plus years. Even so, I wanted to try to preserve as much of my prior investment as possible. So, where it made sense, I asked Keith the reuse parts or preserve parts as much as possible. I think he has done a good job of balancing the use of new parts and restoring old parts to come up with a reliable engine.

Bottom line: Try to work with whoever is restoring your car to make sure they know what you are trying to accomplish with respect to the reuse of parts. Also, communication here is paramount. Anytime the use of a new part versus restoring the old part is open for discussion, you want to be working with a restorer that wil call and give you the pros and cons and let you decide. Keith has done a great job of this and helped even someone like me, with only basic mechanical skills, understand the benefits and risks involved with each decision made.

Anyway, I hope these types of posts will help others that are considering having their car restored.

Matt

namba209 · 02-01-2007

Keith, in the original resto thread, could you kindly post a pic of the spring removed from the front suspension, so folks can see just how much tension is on it, installed. Maybe then they can understand why we that have done the suspension upgrade continually preach Safey First when attempting to remove the front spring. TIA.

soybean · 02-01-2007

Ron, I think he will after he reads your post. Once people see how much the spring is arched maybe they will understand. Credit for post #47 should actually go to Keith Wilford. I copied his idea. Jarrell

opelspyder · 02-01-2007

Yes, but you helped lead the way. I will take some pictures tomorrow of final dissassembly. The tool worked great and I felt it was a really safe way to do it. I've done it with a jack and some wood with using a lift, and this still has it beat. I would recommend no other way than this and it is easy enough to make. I have another front suspension crossmember being powdercoated that was dissassembled a while back. It was in a lot better shape than Matt's. I am using his components and bushings from GT Source. It will be a little while before they arrive. I will also have some updates on other stuff powdercoated maybe this weekend. There is a lot of stuff that I did not take pictures of due to it would get rather boring (or at least when taking things apart) The transmission is shaping up too, will post pics of that as well soon. Basically I am waiting for my order to clear at GT Source before much more work gets done.
Keith

22velocity · 02-02-2007

Keith, the work you are doing on the 72 Gt looks great,I am enjoying reading all the details. I am a retired GM rep that used to drive Opel GT's for my company cars in the early 70's. I have a question for you, what would be a ball park figure for the type of restoration that you are doing on that 1972. Do you normally give a person a range of what a full body off restoration will run. Thanks in advance for your information. Frank

neuropel · 02-02-2007

Just an FYI...comments concerning the GT restoration have been consolidated into this thread. This will allow the actual restoration thread to remain focused on Keith's progress. Feel free to comment on the progress here!

Click here to go to Keith's Restoration Thread!

Thanks! And sorry for any confusion this might cause.

Todd K.

opelspyder · 02-02-2007

Yes, I (knowing quite a bit about these cars) can give a close guess on what things cost to replace and restore. I'm not perfect on this, its always hard to estimate that rusted bolt you spend an hour on removing, but I usually make up for it on other things that come off or go together smoothly. We do go by the hour here, but I can usually get a parts list and labor together and make a worse case senario.
Keith

tekenaar · 02-02-2007

GREAT job on the Resto thus far . . . something we'd all like to do, I'm sure, but most have no time, skill, patience or money to do to this extent!!

I know you probably know or have thought of it, but thought I'd mention it for everyone else here. In Post 17, you know the engine's mounting brackets!!

are "side specific" because of the GTs engine tilt, right?

In Post 20, now would be a good time to add a drain plug to the tranny bottom cover!

Like I said, just suggestions/reminders . . .

kwilford · 02-02-2007

Keith L, could you do me a favour and post some photos showing how the rotisserie mounts at the rear of the GT? I am building one right now and I have the front figured out and built (using extended 2x1 inch rectangular tubing as arms that bolt up to the bumper mounts and then a new set of holes deeper in), but I am puzzling over the rear mount. I was originally planning to mount to the outside of the rear bumper mounts, but it looks like you went THROUGH the tail-light holes and mounted to something inside. If you could take a photo of what you mounted to I would be grateful. Thanks!

opelspyder · 02-02-2007

When the car comes back from the sand blaster I will post pictures of the rear mounting. As far as the engine mounts. I had a discussion with a friend about this at one time, but we felt the metal clevises were the same, but that the engine tilt actually was caused by the crossmember that supports the engine with mounts and all. I will go and measure these again to be sure, but on the crossmember one side is higher than the other (side I mean posts)
Keith

opelspyder · 02-02-2007

I just measured the mounts and they are identical, the measurement from the oil pan to the top of the mounts are the same also 5inches. I believe the only tilt is caused by the Mounting member only
Keith

hrcollinsjr · 02-02-2007

Keith,

How about posting a better picture so some of us old folks won't think we're going blind.

Harold

namba209 · 02-02-2007

Keith, IIRC and Otto, aka tekenaar, can/will confirm, there are also shims that go between the crossmember and the "frame rail" on the passenger side to induce the 10-14 degree tilt required for the air cleaner clearance

hrcollinsjr · 02-02-2007

Originally Posted by namba209

...there are also shims that go between the crossmember and the "frame rail" on the passenger side to induce the 10-14 degree tilt required for the air cleaner clearance

It would take some pretty good shims to tilt it 10-14 degrees.

Harold

GTJIM · 02-02-2007

The motor tilt is 14 degrees - My GT had a hard, red, fibreboard shim of the same thickness between the motor mount cross member and both frame rails - so I do not think the shims themselves contribute to the lean ... it is all built into the towers that the engine mounts bolt on to.

namba209 · 02-02-2007

That could be Jim, BTW, I had those Micarta shims too, but they were between the front suspension and frame rails. The shims I was referring to, two of different thicknesses, were between the rails and the inside mount bolt on the passenger side of the engine crossmember. Maybe it was to be sure of the correct tilt to compensate for the production line tolerances. IDK.

01-30-2007	#27 (permalink)
newman27 '72 Opel GT (Sara) Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 1,128 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	Keith, Thanks for posting these updates I am very pleased with how things are progressing - I can't wait to see the finished product! Matt Last edited by newman27; 01-31-2007 at 09:29 AM.. Reason: Removed project thread question; separate thread started for comments

01-31-2007	#28 (permalink)
BQS4 Southern Red Neck Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Snellville, GA Posts: 4,940 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	72 GT Resto Thread To all members out there: Gary has not gotten the program for Keith's thread on Newman27's resto going. We would like ALL comments to be placed here in this thread to keep the resto thread clean and unhampered till such program can be up and running. If you have any questions/comments about a particular post, then, PLEASE use that post # in your post. DO NOT post in the actual thread itself, PLEASE!!! The Mods

01-31-2007	#30 (permalink)
newman27 '72 Opel GT (Sara) Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 1,128 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	Some Thoughts Behind Decisions Made... Link to Start of Restoration Thread I've come to learn that there are two parts to a restoration project. The hard part is the actual work and I'm going to leave replies to technical questions to Keith. However, the other part of the project is making a lot of little decisions along the way that affect the finished product and the amount of money spent. So, to get things going here and to maybe help others in making their own decisions, I thought I would post some of the thoughts behind what has been done thus far. Post #6 - Rotisserie: So, this was a big part of why I decided to go with Keith and Mid-Southern Restoration (MSR): they have the proper tools. Keith already had the rotisserie and had used it on prior Opel GT projects. In addition, he provided a very detailed good faith estimate and had proven experience with the car. I could see from MSR's web site that they do quality work. Finally, Keith had several contacts for acquiring parts in addition to everyone's favorite: OGTS. Bottom line: Pick someone with a proven track record and direct Opel GT knowledge (if possible) and that has the tools necessary to do a quality job. This will bring you peace of mind. Post #8 - Rust: My car had a decent amount of rust that was visible. It also turned out to have a good amount the wasn't visible like behind the headlight buckets. Also, unknown to me, my car had bondo repairs done to it sometime in the past by a PO. Given that my highest priority is getting the body sound, I'm willing to spend as much of my budget as needed to fix these types of problems via metal work. Bottom line: Be prepared for metal work to be more extensive than at first expected. Allocate as much of your budget as possible to fixing these issues right the first time. Posts #11 and #12 - Powder Coating Frankly, initially, I thought this would be a waste of money. I then learned of the double benefits of powder coating key parts of the car: the parts are protected from rust / corrosion and they look pretty cool. The protective nature of powder coating is why I decided to go ahead with this. The cool factor is a bonus. Bottom line: Powder coating, even if having a show car isn't high on the priority list, is a good and relatively inexpensive way to add a layer of protection to key parts of the car while increasing its attractiveness. I'm sold on it now. Post #14 - Engine Rebuild Many years ago, I paid to have high compression pistons put on the car and a lot of other engine work done. Unfortunately, it wasn't long after this that some other issues caused me to park the car for the next eight plus years. Even so, I wanted to try to preserve as much of my prior investment as possible. So, where it made sense, I asked Keith the reuse parts or preserve parts as much as possible. I think he has done a good job of balancing the use of new parts and restoring old parts to come up with a reliable engine. Bottom line: Try to work with whoever is restoring your car to make sure they know what you are trying to accomplish with respect to the reuse of parts. Also, communication here is paramount. Anytime the use of a new part versus restoring the old part is open for discussion, you want to be working with a restorer that wil call and give you the pros and cons and let you decide. Keith has done a great job of this and helped even someone like me, with only basic mechanical skills, understand the benefits and risks involved with each decision made. Anyway, I hope these types of posts will help others that are considering having their car restored. Matt Last edited by tekenaar; 02-02-2007 at 03:28 PM.. Reason: Turned references to posts into actual links... and actual # of post linked

02-01-2007	#31 (permalink)
namba209 5,000 Post Club Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Imperial Beach, CA South of San Diego Posts: 5,968 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	Keith, in the original resto thread, could you kindly post a pic of the spring removed from the front suspension, so folks can see just how much tension is on it, installed. Maybe then they can understand why we that have done the suspension upgrade continually preach Safey First when attempting to remove the front spring. TIA. Last edited by namba209; 02-01-2007 at 11:09 PM.. Reason: Fat Fingers

02-01-2007	#32 (permalink)
soybean Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Reidsville N.C. Posts: 2,160 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	Ron, I think he will after he reads your post. Once people see how much the spring is arched maybe they will understand. Credit for post #47 should actually go to Keith Wilford. I copied his idea. Jarrell Last edited by soybean; 02-01-2007 at 10:44 PM..

01-31-2007	#29 (permalink)
jvandyke Opeler Join Date: May 2006 Location: Hudsonville, Michigan, USA Posts: 1,788 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	Make a video like this one. Superspeed, music. Too cool. Lots of work in the video, as much as the car....almost. http://www.opelgt.com/forums/2d-body...dy-repair.html

02-01-2007	#33 (permalink)
opelspyder Opel Key Master Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Tennessee Posts: 1,018 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	Spring removal Yes, but you helped lead the way. I will take some pictures tomorrow of final dissassembly. The tool worked great and I felt it was a really safe way to do it. I've done it with a jack and some wood with using a lift, and this still has it beat. I would recommend no other way than this and it is easy enough to make. I have another front suspension crossmember being powdercoated that was dissassembled a while back. It was in a lot better shape than Matt's. I am using his components and bushings from GT Source. It will be a little while before they arrive. I will also have some updates on other stuff powdercoated maybe this weekend. There is a lot of stuff that I did not take pictures of due to it would get rather boring (or at least when taking things apart) The transmission is shaping up too, will post pics of that as well soon. Basically I am waiting for my order to clear at GT Source before much more work gets done. Keith

02-02-2007	#34 (permalink)
22velocity Opeler Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: brookfield wi Posts: 13 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	Keith, the work you are doing on the 72 Gt looks great,I am enjoying reading all the details. I am a retired GM rep that used to drive Opel GT's for my company cars in the early 70's. I have a question for you, what would be a ball park figure for the type of restoration that you are doing on that 1972. Do you normally give a person a range of what a full body off restoration will run. Thanks in advance for your information. Frank

02-02-2007	#35 (permalink)
neuropel Rice Cooker Join Date: May 2002 Location: Spring Church, PA Posts: 1,469 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	Just an FYI...comments concerning the GT restoration have been consolidated into this thread. This will allow the actual restoration thread to remain focused on Keith's progress. Feel free to comment on the progress here! Click here to go to Keith's Restoration Thread! Thanks! And sorry for any confusion this might cause. Todd K.

02-02-2007	#36 (permalink)
opelspyder Opel Key Master Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Tennessee Posts: 1,018 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	REstoration Quotes Yes, I (knowing quite a bit about these cars) can give a close guess on what things cost to replace and restore. I'm not perfect on this, its always hard to estimate that rusted bolt you spend an hour on removing, but I usually make up for it on other things that come off or go together smoothly. We do go by the hour here, but I can usually get a parts list and labor together and make a worse case senario. Keith

02-02-2007	#37 (permalink)
tekenaar Cunning Linguist Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Plano, TX 75074 Posts: 3,987 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	72 GT Resto Thread Post 17 and 20 GREAT job on the Resto thus far . . . something we'd all like to do, I'm sure, but most have no time, skill, patience or money to do to this extent!! I know you probably know or have thought of it, but thought I'd mention it for everyone else here. In Post 17, you know the engine's mounting brackets!! are "side specific" because of the GTs engine tilt, right? In Post 20, now would be a good time to add a drain plug to the tranny bottom cover! Like I said, just suggestions/reminders . . . Last edited by tekenaar; 02-05-2007 at 04:43 PM.. Reason: engine mounting brackets, not mounts . . . DUH!

02-02-2007	#38 (permalink)
kwilford Über OpelGT.com Moderator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada Posts: 3,725 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	Keith L, could you do me a favour and post some photos showing how the rotisserie mounts at the rear of the GT? I am building one right now and I have the front figured out and built (using extended 2x1 inch rectangular tubing as arms that bolt up to the bumper mounts and then a new set of holes deeper in), but I am puzzling over the rear mount. I was originally planning to mount to the outside of the rear bumper mounts, but it looks like you went THROUGH the tail-light holes and mounted to something inside. If you could take a photo of what you mounted to I would be grateful. Thanks!

02-02-2007	#39 (permalink)
opelspyder Opel Key Master Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Tennessee Posts: 1,018 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	Engine mounts and Rotissorie When the car comes back from the sand blaster I will post pictures of the rear mounting. As far as the engine mounts. I had a discussion with a friend about this at one time, but we felt the metal clevises were the same, but that the engine tilt actually was caused by the crossmember that supports the engine with mounts and all. I will go and measure these again to be sure, but on the crossmember one side is higher than the other (side I mean posts) Keith

02-02-2007	#40 (permalink)
opelspyder Opel Key Master Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Tennessee Posts: 1,018 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	Engine mounts I just measured the mounts and they are identical, the measurement from the oil pan to the top of the mounts are the same also 5inches. I believe the only tilt is caused by the Mounting member only Keith

02-02-2007	#41 (permalink)
hrcollinsjr 1000 Post Club Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chapel Hill, TN Posts: 1,539 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	Keith, How about posting a better picture so some of us old folks won't think we're going blind. Harold

02-02-2007	#42 (permalink)
namba209 5,000 Post Club Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Imperial Beach, CA South of San Diego Posts: 5,968 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	Keith, IIRC and Otto, aka tekenaar, can/will confirm, there are also shims that go between the crossmember and the "frame rail" on the passenger side to induce the 10-14 degree tilt required for the air cleaner clearance

02-02-2007	#44 (permalink)
GTJIM 4246 Post Club Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: New Zealand Posts: 5,497 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	14 Degrees The motor tilt is 14 degrees - My GT had a hard, red, fibreboard shim of the same thickness between the motor mount cross member and both frame rails - so I do not think the shims themselves contribute to the lean ... it is all built into the towers that the engine mounts bolt on to.

02-02-2007	#45 (permalink)
namba209 5,000 Post Club Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Imperial Beach, CA South of San Diego Posts: 5,968 Classified Rating: 0% (0)	That could be Jim, BTW, I had those Micarta shims too, but they were between the front suspension and frame rails. The shims I was referring to, two of different thicknesses, were between the rails and the inside mount bolt on the passenger side of the engine crossmember. Maybe it was to be sure of the correct tilt to compensate for the production line tolerances. IDK.