Opel Unveils New Ampera – And it Looks Really Good

[ghcoe]

Opel Unveils New Ampera – And it Looks Really Good : Gas 2.0

[Vandekrol]

Wow... I love it!

[newman27]

I'm still crossing my fingers that someday Saturn dealerships will be Opel dealerships!

[jeff denton]

Whenever I get my pickup serviced I wander around the Chevy showroom, checking out what's new and interesting; generally spend a lot of time looking at whatever 'Vette is displayed. Of course the salesmen know me and would love to sell me one, so I keep promising that one of these days, you never know, I just might do it. This depression (not a recession) and its effect on my business has certainly delayed when this might happen, I'm only a millionaire on paper, in terms of personal play money I'm generally broke... too many damn horses eating out of the budget, not my idea.
Anyway these guys are very professional salesman, they gotta try hard to sell me something, anything. We chat, thus they know I'd trade up the minivan anytime I saw something I (actually my wife) liked. So I keep telling them to get the damn "Volt" on the floor and I'll take it! They need a sale NOW so they keep pushing the Malibu on me, I say "No, show me something with a bigger battery than fuel tank and then we'll sit down at your desk..."
This being based on the research (lots of it) I've done on the Volt. I like that it is not a hybrid in the typical (presently available) sense. It is truly an ELECTRIC car, powered totally by an ELECTRIC motor. Yes it has a gas engine but all that does is charge the batteries AND power the electric motor. This gas engine is strictly a generator and heat source, so it runs at a specific rpm only, thus it can be engineered and tuned to run very efficiently at that rpm only. Kind of like how a diesel locomotive or a pre-nuclear submarine works.
Also what interested me in the Volt is that it just plain LOOKED really really cool. I like cool looking cars.
However, more recent prototypes have lost the cool look, last one I saw a picture of didn't impress me one bit. Major bummer.
Neither does this Opel idea. I just can't go quite that extreme into bizarre styling. You can only push futuristic so far with me...
However I might consider buying it or the Volt or whatever else becomes available. I'm totally into the concept of a truly ELECTRIC car for the daily running around town that we do, presently burning more gas than necessary.
I'm also still not ruling out that I might build an electric car. Have done the research there, too. Wish I had the brains to figure out how to electrically power a truck. A real truck, as in something that actually hauls a load and pulls a 24' cargo trailer. If I could do that I would abandon my dream of becoming wealthy and just skip right up to mega-wealthy...
If any young people are reading this, let me add: get your butts to school and figure out how to solve the world's transportation issues. The future is depending on you!

[MonkeyNutZ]

Originally Posted by jeff denton If any young people are reading this, let me add: get your butts to school and figure out how to solve the world's transportation issues. The future is depending on you!

Yessir, will do!

They've almost got the Volt right but the gas engine is WAY too big, I mean c'mon, a 1.4l? Heck the quasi hybrid Honda Insight was only .995L and it was doing most of the driving. Not to be conspiratorial, but if a guy in a shed could do it with a aircraft starter motor and a 5hp lawnmower engine plus invent his own PWM system why can't Detroit? Unless of course...

I've actually got the mother earth news Opel GT hybrid plans sitting next to my desk for inspiration. I could never bring myself to do it to an actual GT though.

[jeff denton]

Originally Posted by MonkeyNutZ Yessir, will do! They've almost got the Volt right but the gas engine is WAY too big.

Good for you; go for it!

Bigger is better in terms of engine output potential; the old school way of thinking is "the power is there if you need it". Miles per gallon will blow away non-hybrid technology, the public will be impressed with the Volt, good enough for this decade. The ultra-misers can wait for even better mileage that will come next. Baby steps. Anything to get off the gas habit. Save all the gas for the big trucks that really get the work done. Oh, and all the race cars that thrill us with horsepower where it counts most- finishing first.

[victrolakid]

The Chevy volt is a good idea, but there are a lot of small independent companies that could blow the volt out of the water. For example the two companies that could make the volt worthless, are aptera (aptera.com) and the venture (venture.com). Both of these cars use the same hybrid technology as the volt but do it much more efficiently. The venture is going to travel 50 miles on a charge and then get 100 mpg there after, and the aptera is going to get 100 miles to a charge, and then 300 mpg there after. So i think chevy's volt is a good idea but maybe not the best and maybe a little to late.
Sterling

[First opel 1981]

Originally Posted by victrolakid The Chevy volt is a good idea, but there are a lot of small independent companies that could blow the volt out of the water. For example the two companies that could make the volt worthless, are aptera (aptera.com) and the venture (venture.com). Both of these cars use the same hybrid technology as the volt but do it much more efficiently. The venture is going to travel 50 miles on a charge and then get 100 mpg there after, and the aptera is going to get 100 miles to a charge, and then 300 mpg there after. So i think chevy's volt is a good idea but maybe not the best and maybe a little to late. Sterling

venture.com link is not correct, at least not when I put it in

[Gumby]

I'd have to say that opel did a much better job with the exterior design of their Ampera.

Jeff why would you electrically power a truck? There are plenty of electric motors that would make some pretty impressive numbers.... but just like a steam engine they require an outside power source to work. What would you do with a truck that could pull a 24' trailer but only for 25-50 miles? Vehicle weight also becomes a significant issue if you want range. In more than 100 years we still haven't solved the issue of power density of the batteries.

I think the volt and ampera are innovative in that they step away from the norm but they are not the way of the future.

[jeff denton]

Originally Posted by Gumby Jeff why would you electrically power a truck? There are plenty of electric motors that would make some pretty impressive numbers.... but just like a steam engine they require an outside power source to work. What would you do with a truck that could pull a 24' trailer but only for 25-50 miles? Vehicle weight also becomes a significant issue if you want range. In more than 100 years we still haven't solved the issue of power density of the batteries.

Exactly. The "perfect" truck, tractor/trailer, whatever, is one that is as light as possible, yet very powerful.
A huge factor here: keep in mind that wherever a loaded delivery truck goes, it comes back empty. Then it goes empty again to get loaded, then comes back loaded. Half the trip could be done with half the engine. An engine being operated as a generator (running at ideal rpm only) might get the job done a lot more efficiently.
The battery pack weight issue is the killer. Trucks have to be light. A lot of people don't realize this! Truck technology has gone way, way into making them as light as possible. More than ever, you do not want to crash one...

[Redskinsjbs]

Originally Posted by Gumby I'd have to say that opel did a much better job with the exterior design of their Ampera. In more than 100 years we still haven't solved the issue of power density of the batteries.

Think 'Capacitor' and not 'Battery'. There is new research going into capacitor technology and so far they can fit the same amount of power in a Tesla battery (52 KW) which weighs about 1000 pounds into an array of capacitors that weigh a quarter of that. AND, the capacitors could technically charge in 3 - 6 minutes, much better than the 3.5 hours normally required... I'll find a link

[timemachine]

Originally Posted by Redskinsjbs Think 'Capacitor' and not 'Battery'. There is new research going into capacitor technology and so far they can fit the same amount of power in a Tesla battery (52 KW) which weighs about 1000 pounds into an array of capacitors that weigh a quarter of that. AND, the capacitors could technically charge in 3 - 6 minutes, much better than the 3.5 hours normally required... I'll find a link

Yes, please show us something that will charge like a capacitor and discharge like a battery. If that existed, the inventor would already be a zillionaire. I hope it's someday the case, but the physics have never been compatible over the last 100 years.

[Gumby]

Originally Posted by Redskinsjbs Think 'Capacitor' and not 'Battery'. There is new research going into capacitor technology and so far they can fit the same amount of power in a Tesla battery (52 KW) which weighs about 1000 pounds into an array of capacitors that weigh a quarter of that. AND, the capacitors could technically charge in 3 - 6 minutes, much better than the 3.5 hours normally required... I'll find a link

I am sure you are referring to a company called EEStor. If the rumors are true they then may have significantly improved upon the best capacitor BUT the best batteries today still outperform them. Toshiba has demonstrated a battery that will charge in 1 minute. This isn't research, this is a working prototype. The energy density of the best capacitor is still significant worse than the best battery.

[Gumby]

Originally Posted by jeff denton Exactly. The "perfect" truck, tractor/trailer, whatever, is one that is as light as possible, yet very powerful. A huge factor here: keep in mind that wherever a loaded delivery truck goes, it comes back empty. Then it goes empty again to get loaded, then comes back loaded. Half the trip could be done with half the engine. An engine being operated as a generator (running at ideal rpm only) might get the job done a lot more efficiently. The battery pack weight issue is the killer. Trucks have to be light. A lot of people don't realize this! Truck technology has gone way, way into making them as light as possible. More than ever, you do not want to crash one...

You know a diesel engine would be more efficient than some small engine coupled to a generator that is used to power an electric motor coupled to the wheels... :/ too many places for efficiency loss. If hybrids really were more efficient on a small scale you'd see semi trucks using them but so far that is reserved for diesel electric traction motors used in trains.

I thought the ability of any vehicle to move larger objects was largely a matter of weight, traction, and the hp to move it all? Trains are perfect examples of this. Semi trucks use the same principles on a much smaller scale. A lighter truck for towing capacity seems counter productive. I thought you wanted to mate the truck size to the intended weight it would be used to pull...

A 1500lb truck would likely have trouble towing more than a ton or two. Even with a high output motor (hypothetically 500hp), the vehicle wouldn't have the weight or traction to control a 10,000lb load.

A 6000lb truck with only 200hp diesel motor could easily pull 8 or 9 1500lb trucks worth of weight. Torque is king when it comes to towing ability of the motor. The old dodge 350 diesels are rated at 14,000lb towing capacity. The bed could hold 5,000lbs without any issue and the motor was rated for 300,000 miles in a medium size vehicle (ie dump truck). The motor duty cycle in a small truck was unknown. They are known to go 500,000 miles with only routine maintenance and some motors are reportedly going strong after 800,000 miles. Show me an electric vehicle that will do that with a 1500 mile distance between refueling!

Also consider that not all electric motors are the same. Do you want DC, AC, constant torque or constant HP... the list goes on and on.

In any application involving transportation whether it be towing, performance, fuel economy, etc. there is something that does it better than an electric vehicle.

[jeff denton]

Yeah, I think you realize the problem:weight. To make a truck electric like a train it would weigh too much.
Trucks are built as light as possible so they can carry more payload. That is part of the effort to be economical. The more you carry the more money you make. If you can get a hundred thousand tons of gravel hauled in 400 trips you make more money than if it took 399 trips. That's how the trucking business looks at it, more than ever these days, trust me.
Remember the truck's load IS its control and traction weight. That's why it is imperative to load one correctly. It's why there are laws about that, mostly about how much weight is on each and every tire. Notice some trucks have sets of tires they pick up and carry when empty. It gets the weight of the truck alone (tare weight) spread more evenly, then they can be put down to take weight off other tires when loaded. Surely all of us have overloaded a pickup (easy to do) then noticed it steers funny, front end bounces, front wheels slide. The rear tires are grossly overloaded. I can do that with my HD2500 and 24' trailer, "careful with the tongue weight there, guys". An empty truck is a chore to drive, dangerously powerful and little traction. Bobtailing a truck tractor (rig sometimes called a "semi" that doesn't have the big "semi trailer" hooked up) is downright dangerous. Just putting a perspective between how light and how powerful we need the truck to be, and we haven't even discussed the braking system yet!

Yup, we are so waiting for the magic battery technology to come along...
I think the Volt, Ampera, and others are on the right track FOR NOW. (as is this thread.) Remember they have to be affordable to the consumer...

[Redskinsjbs]

Originally Posted by Gumby I am sure you are referring to a company called EEStor. If the rumors are true they then may have significantly improved upon the best capacitor BUT the best batteries today still outperform them. Toshiba has demonstrated a battery that will charge in 1 minute. This isn't research, this is a working prototype. The energy density of the best capacitor is still significant worse than the best battery.

That is what I was thinking of.

Wikipedia (Links)

EEStor

(The EEstor website is down right now)