heater valve

[jvandyke]

I hope to make some more progress tonight. I'm I correct that normally, the majority of wires connecting the instrument cluster to the car, the ambilical cord if you will, is disconnected, in theory, only a few more wires stand between me and completel detachment? I've got a lot more than that, mostly stereo related.

Heading to parts store for something like this
http://www.westcoastbronco.com/produ...l=2&Cat1_ID=17

[jvandyke]

Originally Posted by namba209 There will also be an odd wire or two that has to be disconnected. For the dash, 2 screws by each door jam and 6-7 at the base of the windshield. I would suggest using an Exacto knife, carefully feel for the depressions where the screws are in the dash at the windshild and make a small "X" over each screw head, that will allow a #1 stubby Phillips screwdriver or a flex drive to access the screws. You can get dimpled washers to put on the screws to cover the cuts in your dash cover. .

Quick note: odd wires might include those to AMP meter? then a bunch of bundles off the fuse box?
The door jam screws on either side of the dash cover appear to have been covered over since cover was done with dash off then put back every screw that is covered, isn't there, follow me? the lower left passenger one, behind the plug by the heater controls; not there, both sets as above, not there, I've managed to find a few that are along windshield. In short, there ain't much holding this dash on........

[namba209]

Yeah, the ammeter wires need to be disconnected as well, along with the radio power lead IIRC along with a wire that has a spade lug disconnect. I can take some pics of the screws and bolts to help you out in the a.m. I've got my instrument panel out right now waiting the get the tach fixed, but I'll be able to show where the bolts go in the panel with it laying against the headlight lever.

[jvandyke]

That would be a good picture to have here for reference even if I don't need it. Mine are still attached, I'm going to lable them all before I disconnect. Tape and a pen may save headaches later. Although I didn't lable some that where grounded to the steering column, those you'd think would be obvious.
I'm off to buy something to help with the insidious dash screws, have to search again to see who likes what and why, flexible screw drivers......

[jlthunder]

I don't know if this was mentioned, but make sure the battery is disconnected
You don't want the amp wire touching any grounding surface.

[namba209]

As promised here's the pics of the attaching hardware for the dash, as close as I could get the camera to take them. 3 screws on each outside edge, 4 screws at the base of the windshield, I had to take the pic through the windshield, so I marked the locations with masking tape, the two bolts on either bottom of the instrument panel for its removal along with the hole in the dash to acess the pax side. Oh Yeah, there are two more screws for the dash under the heater control panel, easily seen when the instrument panel is removed. Once you disconnect the connector plugs at the fuse panel, remove the ammeter wires and the one from the headlight micros, Gray/Green with spade lugs disconnect, and the other assundry wires that don't go through the fuse panel, the panel should come out, almost. You still have to remove the console panels, at least I have to. The rear panel is held in with 3 screws, the front with the gear shift and headlight lever is held in place with spring clips, two at the rear and two half way toward the front. The headlight lever will have to be removed also, it's held on the shaft by a small screw in the side of the handle. HTH.

[jvandyke]

alright, back on topic: Heater Valves
I'm planning on using this one pictured below. I moved the bracket over to the other side because it needed to be "flipped around" so it would open when the cable pulled and close when it pushed. (I think that's right, not in front of me now)
This valve is from an early Bronco 66-71 I think. It is composite material. Seems well made, operates smoothly. I was hoping to simply bend a 90 degree at the end of the cable and stick it down into the valve's control arm as an attachement method, I mocked it up and it worked fine, if I can bend the old cable that much without breaking it, maybe should torch it a bit first?
Anyway, I have a redirected coolant line situation and non stock valve location (I don't even know where it is supposed to be) so I wanted a straight valve, no 90 degree. I'm planning on splicing it in on the lower hose where it enters the engine bay through the firewall. I don't think it will need a mount of any kind, the coolant hoses should be sufficient to hold it still but a bracket can be easily modded up if necessary. My heater valve control cable is right there too.

My only concern is I'm installing the valve backward. Against the way coolant is supposed to flow. I can't see how it matters much, or does it?

[namba209]

Personaly, would not put the valve in the hose to the water pump, that hose pulls the coolant through the heater core, so the valve IMHO should go in the source line rather than return line. As for which tube to put each hose to, it's hard to tell by looking at the core. I would suggest a piece of hose hooked to one tube above the core, pour about a quart of water in the hose and see if it comes out the other tube. If it does, the tube with the hose goes to the top of the core and that's where I would put the flow control valve. HTH.

[tekenaar]

Originally Posted by jvandyke alright, back on topic: Heater Valves I'm planning on using this one pictured below. I moved the bracket over to the other side because it needed to be "flipped around" so it would open when the cable pulled and close when it pushed. (I think that's right, not in front of me now) This valve is from an early Bronco 66-71 I think. It is composite material. Seems well made, operates smoothly. I was hoping to simply bend a 90 degree at the end of the cable and stick it down into the valve's control arm as an attachement method, I mocked it up and it worked fine, if I can bend the old cable that much without breaking it, maybe should torch it a bit first? Anyway, I have a redirected coolant line situation and non stock valve location (I don't even know where it is supposed to be) so I wanted a straight valve, no 90 degree. I'm planning on splicing it in on the lower hose where it enters the engine bay through the firewall. I don't think it will need a mount of any kind, the coolant hoses should be sufficient to hold it still but a bracket can be easily modded up if necessary. My heater valve control cable is right there too. My only concern is I'm installing the valve backward. Against the way coolant is supposed to flow. I can't see how it matters much, or does it?

The heater core flow is: Water Pump nipple is SUCTION ("OUTPUT" FROM heater core); T-stat housing nipple is PRESSURE ("INPUT" TO heater core) . . .

[jvandyke]

The FSM, (http://www.opelgt.com/forums/group-9...e-hook-up.html post 15, 16) calls the lower hose a "feed" (the one to the water pump) and the top the "return", FWIW.

Bottom line: does anyone think it would matter much if I put the valve on the lower, water pump, line? Then does anyone think it matters much if the flow arrow on the valve is pointing the "wrong way", meaning I installed it backwards (no choice really, cable must push and pull to open). I could probably reroute the upper hose to a position that is more stock where I could use the heater valve and cable as stock, but it'd be a PITA compared to just splicing it in as described above.
Let's say the FSM terminology is loose, as it seems. As Opel intended: the valve stops the flow of coolant into the core as it comes from the thermostat, the water pump draws whatever's in the heater system out and leaves it dry, no heat at all (I'm guessing)
If I reverse this, the coolant from the thermostat side will flow into and muck about in the core, there'll be some heat there even if it isn't continually circulating.
It's a question of where in the circuit the flow is stopped. Right?

[tekenaar]

Originally Posted by jvandyke The FSM, (http://www.opelgt.com/forums/group-9...e-hook-up.html post 15, 16) calls the lower hose a "feed" (the one to the water pump) and the top the "return", FWIW. Bottom line: does anyone think it would matter much if I put the valve on the lower, water pump, line? Then does anyone think it matters much if the flow arrow on the valve is pointing the "wrong way", meaning I installed it backwards (no choice really, cable must push and pull to open). I could probably reroute the upper hose to a position that is more stock where I could use the heater valve and cable as stock, but it'd be a PITA compared to just splicing it in as described above. Let's say the FSM terminology is loose, as it seems. As Opel intended: the valve stops the flow of coolant into the core as it comes from the thermostat, the water pump draws whatever's in the heater system out and leaves it dry, no heat at all (I'm guessing) If I reverse this, the coolant from the thermostat side will flow into and muck about in the core, there'll be some heat there even if it isn't continually circulating. It's a question of where in the circuit the flow is stopped. Right?

. . . and THAT's absolutely correct, you just interpreted the engine side connections of the A and B hoses backwards, i.e. the heater core bottom "A" hose is connected to the T-stat (pressure, heater core feed) while the upper "B" hose is connected to the WP (suction/heater core return).

Part of the confusion is perhaps due to terminology . . . the radiator lower hose is the suction/feed side for the WP!!, and suction/return by WP nipple for the heater core. The pump pressurizes the block/head and thus the T-stat housing and upper radiator hose, which becomes "feed" for both radiator and heater core. Clear?! . . .

[jvandyke]

Originally Posted by tekenaar . . . and THAT's absolutely correct, you just interpreted the engine side connections of the A and B hoses backwards, i.e. the heater core bottom "A" hose is connected to the T-stat (pressure, heater core feed) while the upper "B" hose is connected to the WP (suction/heater core return).

Well I'm even more confused.
So this is wrong then? (picture below for convenience)
http://www.opelclub.com/October2006TechTip.pdf

This diagram seems to indicate the A hose (lower one) going to WP. B going to T-housing. This is how my car is set up although the routing of hose B is drastically altered. My heater valve was on hose A before I pulled the clamp was off the bracket and the valve frozen but I assumed it worked before it broke and froze. Maybe not. We're about to find out. Because I'm replacing it that way. All the time spent today typing about it I could have tried it both ways 6 times (believe me, I'd rather be in the garage experimenting with the Opel then bored at work typing about experimenting with Opels.......)

[soybean]

Originally Posted by jvandyke My heater valve was on hose A before I pulled the clamp was off the bracket and the valve frozen but I assumed it worked before it broke and froze.

OGTS sells them here in their catalog. There is another valve that will work and bolt up to the wire etc, right size everything, but I can't remember the price. Strangely enough it is on a combine. An Allis Chalmers F-3 series. If you want Pm me and I can call my dealer and get a price for it. I replaced the one on mine 4 years ago and kept the old one as a spare because it looked like the ones that came on the Opels. Jarrell

[SpringGT]

Originally Posted by jvandyke Well I'm even more confused. So this is wrong then? (picture below for convenience) http://www.opelclub.com/October2006TechTip.pdf This diagram seems to indicate the A hose (lower one) going to WP. B going to T-housing. This is how my car is set up although the routing of hose B is drastically altered. My heater valve was on hose A before I pulled the clamp was off the bracket and the valve frozen but I assumed it worked before it broke and froze. Maybe not. We're about to find out. Because I'm replacing it that way. All the time spent today typing about it I could have tried it both ways 6 times (believe me, I'd rather be in the garage experimenting with the Opel then bored at work typing about experimenting with Opels.......)

The diagram is correct in all respects, except one. The upper hose from the thermostat is pictured schematically as going into the upper heater tube, whereas in reality, on the GT, it would go into the lower of the two heater core tubes on the car.
The heater valve should be installed as shown in the diagram; i.e.,in the line from the thermostat to the heater inlet, and it should be installed honoring the flow direction marked on the valve.
Since the thermostat tube is the pressure source, the valve should be installed such that the "seat" side of the valve is toward the thermostat and the "stem" side of thevalve faces downstream away from the thermostat. This takes the pressure off of the stem when the valve is closed and should prevent water from eventually breaching the stem seal and spraying your engine compartment. That is the reason for the directional markings on the valve.

However, since one of your heater tubes has been re-routed through the firewall, it might be a challenge to hook this up properly and still get your stock heater control wire to work. Is there any chance of installing your spare heater unit while your dash is out so that you can plumb things up in a factory-stock mannner?

[jvandyke]

The mistake in the diagram really threw me then.
A million thanks to all for all your patience in helping me sort this out.
I finally pulled the old one out. I have a newfound appreciation for the "Dreaded PO".
Here is a pictorial of what things were/are.
http://homepage.mac.com/jvandyke/Car...oAlbum117.html

I think all this fabrication was done to make room for something no?
I'm leaning toward punching holes (or one big one) through that galvanized (?) and using the stock steel hoses off my spare box to run things back like stock. Any one got a picture of a stock set up of heater valve?

[namba209]

Jeff Here's a pic of the inside of the heater box on Willit? before it was painted. It shows the hole for the heater core tubes quite nicely both inside and engine compartment. I can't take a pic of the heater valve, it's hiding under the altermator on my V-6 configuraion. The pics are in thread #10. HTH.

http://www.opelgt.com/forums/6b-cool...html#post45515

[SpringGT]

After seeing your newest pictures, I can see why you might be a bit confused about the heater setup. The PO has cut a large cross section out of your heater box, including the oval hole where the original heater tubes used to come through.
Namba's picture post gives you some idea of the way it used to be and how much was removed. Maybe someone with a crusher- ready body could cut this piece out for you.

[jvandyke]

Originally Posted by SpringGT After seeing your newest pictures, I can see why you might be a bit confused about the heater setup. The PO has cut a large cross section out of your heater box, including the oval hole where the original heater tubes used to come through. Namba's picture post gives you some idea of the way it used to be and how much was removed. Maybe someone with a crusher- ready body could cut this piece out for you.

Yep, that picture says it all (thanks Namba!). I knew some serious rearranging had been done.
Am I correct that the heater valve control cable goes out between these tubes?
My plan now is too revert back to original heater core metal tubing (I have some from spare).
This new box the PO put in appears to be held in by sheet metal screws. I'm hoping I can un screw it, install the heater box and tubes, then hack the PO's walls up to accomadate the tubes, seal up the gaps, and be off and running. I'm afraid though that the wall of the box is pretty much right in line with the tubes so, well, we'll see.

Now I can put the valve on the correct hose although it will probably still be my Bronco valve and in-line.

[jvandyke]

Here's how it is, overlaid with a drawing of how I think it was, next to Namba's picture for reference. The drain hole is my reference point. It will live again. I'll take out the screwed in sheet metal, mock up the heater box, see where the tubes want to be, hack up the sheet metal pieces accordingly and put it all together.
Hopefully I can resurrect a good working system from all this. Little leery on where and how to hook up the heater valve, that cable is toast on both my units. Will figure something out.
I had fun swapping the fan motor last night, neglected to notice the rubber spacers didn't come along with the new motor, as I tried to compensate by tightening the bolt, snap, off came the lug. Fixing that chewed up most of my time last night.

[namba209]

Jeff, maybe to clarify a little bit, the physical location of the heater flow control valve is determined by the end of the push-pull cable that goes to it. The cable, in the original configuration, runs along the tubes from the heater core, along the hoses to the valve. You are correct, that the valve can be left loose, that is not secured to the structure. The hoses will hold it in place. HTH.

[jvandyke]

Originally Posted by SpringGT ....it should be installed honoring the flow direction marked on the valve. Since the thermostat tube is the pressure source, the valve should be installed such that the "seat" side of the valve is toward the thermostat and the "stem" side of thevalve faces downstream away from the thermostat. This takes the pressure off of the stem when the valve is closed and should prevent water from eventually breaching the stem seal and spraying your engine compartment. That is the reason for the directional markings on the valve.

If I'm finally getting my head around this; by returning to stock (nearly) hose routing I can put the valve on the correct hose (the one between the T-housing and heater) the flow would be into the heater, thus the arrow on the valve should point that way, and all is right with the world. Had I known I was going to end up this way (and I still don't know) I would have opted for a "real" GT valve, but oh well. I've got $25 into this one and I can't see why it won't work fine, provided I can make the loop from valve over to T-housing without the 90 degree of the original valve.

How important are the little ribs in the end of the metal hoses? I may have to cut them back and of course I'd have to cut off the ribs. I imagine a clamp will still suffice?

[namba209]

Jeff, don't cut the tubes at all, there's very little of them going through the heater box/firewall to put the hoses and clamps on them in a normal configuration. If you need to cut them because of corrosion, I had to purschase a twenty foot length of thick wall tubing for mine and have some left over. You will have to use the original flanges or make new ones and have the tubes bent in order for them to fit, but you're welcome to get a pair of 16" tubes, if you need them.

[opelbits]

jvandyke-

If you have all of this stuff apart, have you considered having the heater core cleaned by a shop? I had mine done a few years ago and it was pretty clogged, same muck that siezed the heater control valve. Afterwards, the heater put out much more heat.
Even if it seems "okay", now would be the time to do it. It cost me less than $40.

[jvandyke]

okay, got heater box rebuilt (lots of parts swapping, splicing, rebuilding) I did flush out the heater core, I was planning on bringing it in for a pressure test, but now I want to install it.
All cables, levers, and such work freely and nice.
my drawing above ended up being just what happened, the black sheet metal wall was two pieces, the back wall part removed revealing just the right space for the tubes to come through, so the tubes are completely exposed, they could be cut back but don't have to be.
Now I'm guessing the heater valve provided 1 90 degree bend towards the T-housing, is there one on the T-housing too? Mine just goes straight back along the valve cover, can't find a good picture in the FSM. Seems like that hose pretty much heads straight over to the T-housing so it must have a 90 right there?

[namba209]

Jeff, in the original configuration, as shown in the drawing previously, there were a couple of "T" fittings for the water choke and the 90 fitting on the valve. What I've done is run a short piece of hose from the inlet tube to the water valve, then a hose from that 90 degree fitting up to the thermostat nipple. The other hose goes straight from the outlet pipe to the water pump nipple. HTH.