Addco Sway Bars

[SoCalOpelGT]

I just picked up a front Addco sway bar and the instructions/diagrams are little confusing. I'm confident once I get uder the car, things will make sense. However, a picture is worth a thousand words!

Has anyone posted pictures of their front sway bar installation? I ran a search and didn't find any.

Thanks, Richard

[72opelguy]

how much were the sway bars?
and both front and rear?

[jimsky]

Well I guess sending members to another site is OK if it's all in the name of Opels. Go to the ClassicOpels webite that is hosted by Yahoo. The URL is:

http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/classicopels/

I've got about a dozen pictures of my Addco front and rear installation. Go to "Files" then go to "Technical Information" and there is a folder named "Addco F&R Sway Bars for GT".

I got the bars front and rear for $99 each, all hardware and poly bushing. Buy some teflon grease and goop the bushings up well, otherwise they squeak and groan like an old wooden staircase.

[greensmurf20]

where did you get the swaybars from? because OGTS wants 150 just for the front stabalizer bar kit.

[jimsky]

Call Shelly at Addco 800 621-8916. Last year I bought the last front bar they had in stock. I had to wait about 2 months until they did another run of rear bars.

The Addco rear bar does not require a bracket to be welded onto the axel like the OGTS bar does. The bar mounts to four tapped body holes that were there on my '73 GT. The hardware provided just screwed right in. The end of the bar mounts up to the lower rear coil spring cups via a bracket that is mounted to it.

I can't comment on how the Addco bar compares in actual performance to the OGTS bar. I just went with the easier installation, since I don't have welding gear. Adding the bars does make a heck of a difference in handeling. Well worth the $200 to me.

[jimsky]

I just added the Addco swaybar photos to my photo album here on this site. Just look up "jimsky" in the member photos section.

[RallyBob]

Originally posted by jimsky I can't comment on how the Addco bar compares in actual performance to the OGTS bar. I just went with the easier installation, since I don't have welding gear.

The Addco bars are a nice deal, they improve the handling of a GT for a reasonable cost.

However, the OGTS bars are far superior to the Addco bars for performance handling, and the fitment in many ways is easier, as they attach to the chassis using the same fitment points as the factory (Euro) sway bars. So if you have a Euro set of front lower a-arms and a rear axle with the Euro sway bar brackets, they bolt right up.

Bob

[opeldean]

1)Which is more important for the gt....A) front anti sway bar or B) the back(if a person had to choose only one for his birthday)

2)Rally Bob:how is it possible that the OGTS bars are better?Do you mean they are better for racing..i Believe the diameters were
very close in size.I have also heard that kadette bars will fit..are there any availible sources?

3)were any Gts shipped to the US with sway bars?..if even a few were shipped..i am told they could then be added on to an existing Gt and be
scca classified as a stock car.W/o this verification of shipment..then the addition of sway bars changes the gt to an upper bracket.

4) people i have met at the scca ..say this is the most important upgrade that is needed on the gt..they say it is a night and day change in handling.

5)I have heard of removal of the front leaf springs and replacing with coil over the shock..is this a good idea?

[Gary]

1. Try a search. I think this has been answered.

2. The OGTS bars are a lot heavier.

3. Some early GT's were shipped with the rear sway bar brackets on the rear.

4. See 1.

5. See 1.

[opelgt73]

1. I found this on the Yahoo site, that way Mr. Legere doesn't have to write it again

"*****They *should* be done in pairs. Doing just the
front bar will make the car understeer (front end
loses grip first), and doing just the rear makes the
car oversteer (rear end loses grip first). If done in
pairs, the balance will be improved, and the car will
be easier to drive fast. On a stock GT, the car
understeers badly, so the rear bar would be the best
improvement for lower speed corners, but it will also
create a high-speed instability during cornering, so
just beware. It won't be 'Porsche 911' bad, but it may
catch you unexpectedly if you were to lift off the
throttle mid-corner.

BTW, a performance driving school for the driver, and
good tires and tire pressures are the best thing you
can do for ANY car's performance.

Bob
"

2. The OGTS Bar is Bigger in diameter on both ends and is of thicker metal I believe, they are much stiffer.

3. I actually have a rear end with the brackets on it, but I have never heard of or seen a GT with factory sway bars. You would be better to just have a later model rear end fitted with brackets.

4. TRUE

5. It may sound like a good idea, but it is a lot more work than you might think. The uni-body gt was designed to handle the stresses and strain of the leaf spring setup. If you add coilovers you will have to attach them to portions of the body that were not designed for or can handle the forces of the suspension.

That being said some people have done it. I believe Uwe Klippert had done it to his gt and there were pictures of his conversion on his site http://www.uwe-klippert.de but there is somehing wrong with my browser and I can't seem to navigate his site.


Gary....where did the spel kheker go?

[GT-Freak]

Ask yourself, "What am I trying to accomplish?" This is the real question, it'll get you real answers.

Are you trying to,
1. Fix a handling problem (more enjoyable to drive), or
2. Upgrade to a new performance level (e.g. for racing).

Most street driven cars are shooting for number 1. On almost every car I've bought I've fixed handling problems that came from the factory. On my last one I replaced the rear anti-sway bar, shocks and tires; and adjusted the tire pressures. Originally, it had excessive plow and tail wag (like a GT). Now it's nearly neutral with slight understeer and the back end doesn't roll excessively. It's a lot funner to drive and I'm not as nervous in emergency situations.

Factory cars are targeted at such a wide market the number of compromises eventually compromises the handling and occasionally safety. US sold GT's have some handling problems because some butthead at GM thought a rear bar caused a harse ride (more likely it costs money). Opels are sports cars and should drive like one, not the family Buick.

There are several good suspension books and articles on handling. They tell you the basics and fixes. This is a good place to start. Ideally, all the parts must match, for example, the stiffness ratio between front and rear anti-sway bars is correct. There are many suspension adjustments that can be made w/o new parts. I'd change one thing at a time and work to a goal.

Too many people buy mismatched parts or use inappropriate performance parts. Harder/stiffer suspensions are more difficult to tune. They seem to amplify every little thing, like bumps and adjustments. This takes the fun out of driving on the street.

[opeldean]

well I am very happy that I bartered a rear kadette sway bar through this site. I know it is not as stiff as the others,but it is all opel and unique. It is better than nothing.

It is a 5/8 in (which is a smaller diameter) than the OGTS 3/4 in. OGts does not sell bracketry for the Kadette bar but they sell the hardware separately
($80 yikes) plus $60 for a pair of bracckets (Yikes again) for the 3/4.

so I am trying to adapt new brackets to the old bar. I dont have a picture of the bar because a friend is powder coating it for me.

in ideas on how I make it fit with the diameter difference?

[Gary]

Try Summit http://www.summitracing.com They may have 3/4 inch swaybar bushings.

I just picked up some 7/8" poly bushings at Pepboys for my Wagon. ($15.00 with clamps that have grease fittings)

Man what a difference that ADDCO bar makes over the stock one!

[Gary]

Just noticed that ADDCO has the GT front bar on sale for $99.00

http://swaybars.com/specials/specials.asp

[bozkm]

After reading numerous posts on the sway bar issue, it seems to be that everyone is happy with either the Addco or OGTS SwayBars. I've been debating for months which one to buy. Here is what I have came up with from the various posts.

The OGTS is stiffer than the Addco (front)...is it that noticible of a difference? I'm like the OGTS for this reason.

They both have the same ease of installation (front)..true?? Tied

The rear sway bar, the OGTS needs welding for the brackets and the Addco doesn't..since I don't weld, I like the ADDCO for this reason.

I shouldn't mix an OGTS front with Addco rear....correct?

So now I'm back to square one...I like OGTS front and Addco back...so my first question will probably make my decision..is the stiffer OGTS front make that much of a difference for the stock street rider?

Thanks.

[greensmurf20]

i have heard from one member that the front bar was also pretty hard to install. i cannot say for sure, i've never tried one. addco front bar took me an hour, the rear bar took me an hour and a half fighting with a spring. i wasnt too carefull where i drilled the hole in the srping bucket, it was my fault for that difficulty.

[nobody]

The front Addco is a straight bar 3/4 of an inch thick and the OGTS is 1 inch with a drop for the pan in it. You have to be careful with the OGTS front to not get it into a bind between the front cross member and the Addco has a limitation if you want a bigger sump or maybe one of those finned oil pans.

The rears are very similar with the exception of the size and mounts. Addco mounts to the spring cups and OGTS requires welding the brackets to the axle.

I went with the OGTS front and rear since it is the best on the market but it was a bit harder to install. There is also a bit of a price change for the two in comparison. To answer the mix and match question, you should never run different diameter bars front to back for alot of reasons.

[GTJIM]

It all depends on the sort of handling you want and how harsh a ride you are prepared to put up with. As an "old" Dirt Track" Racer I like the tail end to break free first (oversteer) and don't mind a flick or two of opposite lock at the limits. Also as an "old" driver comfort is more desirable than real hard suspension. So I guess a bit of a play around with different size bars front and back may be in order.

[Ooooner]

How would the GT handle if you installed the Addco rear sway bar only? Then maybe installed the front at a later time? Is there really anything wrong with that?

[opeldean]

and if you read what flipper has said and I believe others have said,

If you are to install only 1 bar,install the front. I have used only a front ogts bar for the last 6 months or so, it makes a big difference. Someone posted
on just having the back on, not much improvement.The front bar keeps it from diving in a corner. I guess the risk is if you keep pushing it the back will break loose. I think, if you are not a racer,there is no problem with the front only and the car is a lot better handling. I think the addco is equivilent in daily performance to the ogts.. Jimsky really liked his addcos.

MY experience,as a newbie, the OGTS front is simple but hard to install by a fraction of an inch.you will have to horse it in with a jack.

I am putting on a used Kadette bar for the back. the bar was bartered so it cost me nothing, but I will have at least $160 in costs to adapt it in. I am sure the Addco would be better and cheaper than mine, I just like the fact
that my rear bar came off a kadette bound for the junkyard. A friend will weld it in for me on wednesday.I am buying MG midget polybushings for the body anchor points ,since they are 5/8''.

my opinion,the best bang for the buck seems to be the Addco bars.

[Paul]

A rear bar only = BIG OVERSTEER = UNSAFE

Can't comment specifically on the different front bars on the GT.

But I can give an example of what different bar combinations can do for another vehicle.

The NEON ACR and R/Ts came with a 22mm ft bar and a 16 mm rear. The trick set up for SCCA stock class was to use the SMALLER 19mm front bar from the base Neon. The greatly helped to reduce Understeer. This was our only option since no changes were allowed to the rear. If that had been allowed then the trick would have been to increase both. For example, I currently run 22 mm on both the front and back for very neutral handling on the street.

Its all a matter of proportion and front to rear balance.

"On the surface" it would appear the larger 1" ft bar coupled with a common sized and designed rear bar would yield more understeer than the 3/4" front bar. Now, all bets are off it the two different rear bars are either of different diameters or have different length lever arms.

Sorry, just throwing out a little info... HTH

[opeldean]

the brackets were welded in today.

it rained today , too slick to really test it out.

but I can tell, the rear bar helps the front bar. Car seems flatter in a turn and back end isnt as switchy.

[Old Hippie]

opeldean,
look for a brass bushing material that has a 1/16" wall. This will fill the gap and you can get it to length. Check at a bearing house or machine shop in your area. (3/4") 6/8" - 5/8" = 1/8". Devide by 2 = 1/6". Just grease the inside of the bushing so that the slide bolt will rotate in there easily, which would reduce the ware on the bushing. If any of the fulltime machineist see something wrong with my idea, please fell free to chime in. I can take criticism, honest! :o
OPPS! Seems I answered a question from the wrong page! Silly me! :o

[kwilford]

Originally Posted by nobody To answer the mix and match question, you should never run different diameter bars front to back for a lot of reasons.

As GTJIM has said, different sized bars front to back will provide different results. As will different mounting arrangements (stiffer bushings, longer lever arms, etc). Addco and OGTS provide a matched set, for what they perceive will provide the best overall balance. But "balance" can be affected by more than sway bar size. Spring rates, shock settings, roll centre lowering, tire size (especially when the tires are different front to back) all affect balance. So it is a bit too simplistic to state "don't mix and match". But only do so with the knowledge that you might get unintended results.

As for which is easier to install, the Addco bars are somewhat simpler. No welding on the differential, and they don't require the motor mount be dropped (which the OGTS, and stock, bars do).

Which provides the best handling? Normally, thicker is "better", but harsher. But a thicker bar with different mountings can actually provide a softer result. Bushings play a key role. Mounting points play a factor. I haven't compared the Addco bars with the OGTS bars (I have the Addco's front and back), but because they mount differently, I suspect that the lever arms are of different lengths. A different lever arm length will provide a different ride for a given amount of suspension deflection. This also affected by where the bar mounts. A short lever arm, mounted closer to the centreline of the suspension, will give a stiffer ride than a longer lever arm, mounted only part way along the suspension arm. So a direct comparison of both types of bars has to compare all these factors.

Finally, as I understood it, a stiffer rear bar will cause more under-steer, while a stiffer front bar, will induce more over-steer, which is the opposite of what Paul described. But I might have that mixed up. But neither in the extreme is desirable. But a bit of under-steer is generally "safer" (at least more predictable) to the average driver in typical conditions. So be careful of too much front bar (or rear bar, if I have the results switched).

JM2CW

[nobody]

To be completely honest I was repeating what I was told by both of those sway bar sellers. I got involved in a sway bar deal that included 3 people 2 companys and two areas of the world so while getting everything situated I had alot of time to ask these same questions. I understand why they both said it was a no no. Liability if you go out and spin it into oncoming traffic or something. I know it could be done and was thinking of mixing to do a bit of tweaking myself. I chose not too as I am not that brave I guess.

I have both of the OGTS bars and I sent the Addco south, way south. First I did get a good look at it and all the hardware of course.