Add Lightness

[azopelnut]

In the words of Colin Champman, founder of Lotus "to add speed add lightness".
To that end I am very interested in making a:
SAFE
LIGHT
STREET LEGAL Opel.(GT or Manta/Ascona)
I have more than one Opel so this will not be a "daily driver" but a fun cruiser with "basically" a stock drive train that "may" eventually be autocrossed. I simply want to see what gains can be made without adding perfomance items.
I am considering both Opel chassis styles because I really don't know which chassis/body will be have the greatest weight reduction potential
Obvious items to be removed:
1) carpeting, door panels, seats (except for a drivers seat ... and an occasional passenger seat) I want to coat or paint the entire interior with a bedliner material for a little sound deadening but also a uniform look.
2) heater...I live in southern arizona
3) door glass and window relgulators....it does not rain here either(plexiglass??)
4) rear glass (plexiglass??)
5) bumpers and exterior trim
6) spare tire (and tire shelf on a GT)
7) Steel wheels
8) Any others????
NOW comes the part I really need help.
Are there items on either chassis that can be removed without sacrificing safety or strength?

[Jeff Pozorski]

A few more items:

Use steel valve cover form Manta versus heavier one from GT

Light weight rims

Diet plan form Weight Watchers or similar place

Become a nudist

[opelnut10]

Originally Posted by azopelnut In the words of Colin Champman, founder of Lotus "to add speed add lightness". To that end I am very interested in making a: SAFE LIGHT STREET LEGAL Opel.(GT or Manta/Ascona) I have more than one Opel so this will not be a "daily driver" but a fun cruiser with "basically" a stock drive train that "may" eventually be autocrossed. I simply want to see what gains can be made without adding perfomance items. I am considering both Opel chassis styles because I really don't know which chassis/body will be have the greatest weight reduction potential Obvious items to be removed: 1) carpeting, door panels, seats (except for a drivers seat ... and an occasional passenger seat) I want to coat or paint the entire interior with a bedliner material for a little sound deadening but also a uniform look. 2) heater...I live in southern arizona 3) door glass and window relgulators....it does not rain here either(plexiglass??) 4) rear glass (plexiglass??) 5) bumpers and exterior trim 6) spare tire (and tire shelf on a GT) 7) Steel wheels 8) Any others???? NOW comes the part I really need help. Are there items on either chassis that can be removed without sacrificing safety or strength?

The early Ascona is more than likely the lightest of the two 50 series cars. The GT is lighter still than either on of them with the added benifit of the engine setback. That being said I have a little experience making one lighter, Making bumper mounting brackets out of aluminum will save a couple of pounds, removing all sound deadener from the floor and all the undercoating on the bottom and wheel wells. Lexan (not plexiglass) in all the windows except the windshield, minilite wheels (if you can find some) remove the window regulators and trim the sheet metal on the inside of the doors allowing just enough to clip the door panels to. replace the regulators with seat belts fastened to the bottom of the window with the latch fastened to the door panel to allow you to raise and lower the windows. If you have a lot of time on your hands, remove the sound deadener from the inside of the doors and the inside of the rear quarters. You can get a couple hundred pounds with the above modifications, doing away with the heater and controls will get you another 6-7 pounds. Look around for some metric aluminum bolts (they are out there) they can be used to bolt the hood, trunk lid, door hinges and bumpers. Anything that don't make something work or hold something is excess baggage on a race car, keep that in mind and look for ways to eliminate or lighten anything on the car. Wireing is the first place to look, good luck.

[gearheadeh]

Originally Posted by azopelnut In the words of Colin Champman, founder of Lotus "to add speed add lightness". To that end I am very interested in making a: SAFE LIGHT STREET LEGAL Opel.(GT or Manta/Ascona) I have more than one Opel so this will not be a "daily driver" but a fun cruiser with "basically" a stock drive train that "may" eventually be autocrossed. I simply want to see what gains can be made without adding perfomance items. I am considering both Opel chassis styles because I really don't know which chassis/body will be have the greatest weight reduction potential Obvious items to be removed: 1) carpeting, door panels, seats (except for a drivers seat ... and an occasional passenger seat) I want to coat or paint the entire interior with a bedliner material for a little sound deadening but also a uniform look:Carefull, I know there are light weight carpets ment for drag cars, this should be lighter and look alot better than heavy sound deadening! 2) Steel wheels:Carefull here too!, steel wheels are lighter than you think, Depends on your use for them! 8) Any others???? NOW comes the part I really need help. Are there items on either chassis that can be removed without sacrificing safety or strength?

Get a hole saw and make the car look like swiss cheese under all the new aluminum paneling, And look for heavy chunks of metal on the suspension and brakes, Great to have access to a lathe.

[opelnut10]

I spray bombed the floor inside the drag car with GM spakle trunk paint, lighter than sound deadener and looked good also. Every auto parts store has touch up paint to match. I used the gray & white spakle because it allowed more light inside as oppossed to the black & blue. Of course I was not concerned about deadening any sound or road noise as the car was built for short trips only, 1/4 mile at a time.

[Redskinsjbs]

Well, I don't know what aestetics you are after, but a lot of those types of things (door panels, dash, kick panels, parcel shelf and spare tire shelf) in the car can be removed which will save a lot of weight.

I would also consider putting in a smaller gas tank (think about it, 14 gallons of fuel is like 125 pounds of weight, PLUS the weight of the tank itself).

Then what about the carbon canister system if there is one. That will save around 5 to 10 pounds.

For wheels, I would look in to getting some alpina wheels from a late 60s early 70s BMW. The 1602s and 2002s had the same bolt pattern and offset as the GT, so the wheels are interchangeable (The wheels weigh something like7 pounds a piece, but cost around $1500 a set)

You could also gut the exhaust system and run a very small side pipe (Think less pipe, less weight)

You could remove the windsheild washer system (I dont think that that is required in many states, if any)

Remove the passenger side wiper arm ( One pound saved is still one pound saved)

Remove the front turn signal lamps (the 4 inch round ones) and just keep the Banana lights, converting them to both turn and running lights

Remove the front grills

Bore out the motor. I don't know what goes in to doing this, but I am thinking that less metal in the block means less weight, right?

Remove the bumpers. They would actually help you in a crash that is more than 3 mph.

Get different seats. GT seat weigh a TON. I dont know about the other Opel seats, but I am sure that they weigh a lot as well.

Remove all of the window track system. That will save a lot of weight.

Fix the headlamps open or replace the round turn signals with driving lights and lock the buckets closed. You could then remove all of the rotating assemblies and save weight.

If autocrossing, remove the hood. You won't be going fast enough to need it and it is just extra weight

Thats all that I can come up with right now . . .

HTH,

Jay

[opeletti75]

get a mazda miata gell cell battery they are small and light bob leger does it

[RallyBob]

Originally Posted by azopelnut In the words of Colin Champman, founder of Lotus "to add speed add lightness". To that end I am very interested in making a: SAFE LIGHT STREET LEGAL Opel.(GT or Manta/Ascona)

Start with a '68 Kadett 2-door sedan with the 1.9 engine and 4-speed. They are under 1900 lbs in stock form! I've only driven one of these cars but it performed better than my '70 Kadett Rallye I used to have. I can imagine that with some creative gutting and lightweight seats you could get one down to about 1800 lbs. and still be very street legal.

http://imcdb.org/images/037/658.jpg

[hrcollinsjr]

Originally Posted by Redskinsjbs Thats all that I can come up with right now . . . HTH, Jay

Plastic lens headlamps instead of glass ones, remove horns (fingers can substitute for this purpose), toss the mirrors (not needed ), choose tires with weight in mind, nitrogen or maybe even helium, lighter flywheel, 5 blade fan vs. 7 blade fan, header instead of cast iron exhaust manifold, trim unneeded Al from intake, Al torque tube, you don't really need a passenger seat or belts for that side, interior light, radio & speakers, clock, use only one muffler and make it a light one, etc. Basically if it isn't needed, get rid of it or if there is a lightweight alternative, use it. I believe someone suggested joining Jenny Craig. IIRC someone suggested that clothing was optional, I'd prefer you at least wear some skivvies, a THONG does NOT quality.

Although some of the suggestions are frivolous it might get you to thinking about some of the REAL places to save weight.

Harold

[baz]

i-pod or ear plugs , much lighter than sound deadening or trunk liner and more effective
rewire with just the lines you need not what sits in the car and not needed , all the wrap round a loom adds up

[PROPEL]

Originally Posted by Redskinsjbs Get different seats. GT seat weigh a TON. I dont know about the other Opel seats, but I am sure that they weigh a lot as well.

I just retrofitted my GT with Saab Sonett seats... fiberglass, low, and ridiculously lightweight. You can save even more weight by getting rid of the seat tracks altogether and bolting the buckets straight to the floor (non-adjustable).

[opelwasp]

Originally Posted by baz i-pod or ear plugs , much lighter than sound deadening or trunk liner and more effective rewire with just the lines you need not what sits in the car and not needed , all the wrap round a loom adds up

Driving with your ears obstructed is way illegal in most if not all States of the Union.

[baz]

shame

[Aardvaark]

In the words of Colin Champman, founder of Lotus "to add speed add lightness".
------
I'm not sure following his advise is that wise for a street car.
Chapman's street lotus were well known to break down and also have
structural failures other road cars just wouldn't experience.

Lightness on the track on Lotus also backfired sometimes with failures
directly related to being fabricated too wealky.

Besides. Lightness on a road car means lack of luxury, something I don't subscribe too.
I'm pretty sure I own the heaviest stock drivetrained Manta on the forum if not the planet.

[Aardvaark]

Originally Posted by opelwasp Driving with your ears obstructed is way illegal in most if not all States of the Union.

I watched Kevin Fier in his Kadett Wagon get stopped by the Ohio State Police for doing so.
He was wearing headphones when spotted and stopped in rush hour traffic during a peroid when traffic came to a hault.

I suspect he would have made a run for it if it hadn't been for the blocked traffic.

[hrcollinsjr]

Originally Posted by Aardvaark I watched Kevin Fier in his Kadett Wagon get stopped by the Ohio State Police...

Doesn't surprise me at all. He looks pretty shady to me. Beady eyes AND a full head of hair!

I suspect he would have made a run for it if it hadn't been for the blocked traffic.

You bet cha' and blended in with traffic and gotten clean away.

Harold

[hrcollinsjr]

Originally Posted by opelwasp Driving with your ears obstructed is way illegal in most if not all States of the Union.

They let deaf people drive don't they? And give drivers licenses to people who can't drive. The main difference I see in people using iPods is at least they aren't sharing their music with me.

Just messin' with you a little.

Harold

P.S. I had a NON drivers license at one time. How many people can say that?

[RallyBob]

After a lot of thinking, I've come to the realization that some of the best ways to save weight are simply expensive to buy or time consuming to do yourself.

*2.4 starter is half the weight of a 1.9 starter (about 7.5 lbs)
*lighten the crankshaft, run alloy crank pulleys, lightweight clutch and flywheel...you chould be able to take 16-17 lbs from not only the entire car weight, but from the front of the car (balance) and from the rotating mass of the engine. I'm trying out a new combo right now which seems to be pretty cost effective since the pressure plate is off-the-shelf for 2.3 Ford racing engines. Going to test it on Duane's hillclimb car with a custom clutch disc and lightened flywheel.
*I've even lightened a camshaft before, having the journal turned down between each lobe, and lightening the cam pulley too.
*I've removed about 10 lbs from an engine block by grinding the entire thing down and cutting off every protrusion that didn't help me make power...
*Big-valve ported head with lightweight springs and retainers typically weighs 5-7 lbs less than stock!
*aluminum radiator
*very lightweight wheels, and modestly sized tires
*on a GT, the aftermarket fiberglass leaf spring weight 6.5 lbs instead of 17-18 lbs
*tubular sway bars in lieu of solid
*Check out the 'Dyna-bat', it weighs 13.5 lbs! Not too expensive either.
*You'll note the crossmember in this photo has been swiss-cheesed a bit, I managed to save 8 lbs:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3229/...85288053_b.jpg
*Rear axles can be turned/lightened a bit if you're not making much power.
*Steering columns typically weigh a bunch and can be modified to reduce weight.
*aluminum master cylinder w/o brake booster saves some weight
*aluminum calipers are much lighter, 2.5 lbs each for Wilwood Dynalite vs/ 8 lbs each for stock Opel cast iron.
*We used to lighten the front hubs on our circle track cars on a lathe
*Get good at making composites or fabricating parts from aluminum...
*Header has been mentioned already, but making it from 316 thinwall stainless helps even more. And the same goes with the exhaust, either thinner high grade stainless or titanium can knock HUGE weight from the exhaust system. I picked up a titanium 3" exhaust from a Subaru once, it weighed 8 lbs including the muffler!
*My Manta racecar has a simple aluminum dashboard with plastic aircraft-style Westach gauges. The entire dash WITH all 8 gauges weighs less than the stock Opel 3-gauge dash insert!

Bob

[Avec]

Bob
What is a good source for the 2.4 starter? Is that something that comes up on German or UK ebay, or is there a domestic source?

[hrcollinsjr]

Originally Posted by Avec Bob What is a good source for the 2.4 starter? Is that something that comes up on German or UK ebay, or is there a domestic source?

OGTS I believe has them. NOT CHEAP though! You can score them off of German eBay and IF you're patient you can get one at a reasonable price. I searched quite awhile. If they're listed for a 2.4 they generally have a high asking price. Search for the ones that don't specify what CIH engine they are for and you might get a deal. The solenoid is short and fat.

Harold
(Not Bob)

[Aardvaark]

I've got to say, and without using any names, for some of the Opelers I've met, loosing a few pounds would certainly help their cars performance.
I could stand to shed 50 lbs myself.

[gearheadeh]

Originally Posted by RallyBob After a lot of thinking, I've come to the realization that some of the best ways to save weight are simply expensive to buy or time consuming to do yourself. *2.4 starter is half the weight of a 1.9 starter (about 7.5 lbs) *lighten the crankshaft, run alloy crank pulleys, lightweight clutch and flywheel...you chould be able to take 16-17 lbs from not only the entire car weight, but from the front of the car (balance) and from the rotating mass of the engine. I'm trying out a new combo right now which seems to be pretty cost effective since the pressure plate is off-the-shelf for 2.3 Ford racing engines. Going to test it on Duane's hillclimb car with a custom clutch disc and lightened flywheel. *I've even lightened a camshaft before, having the journal turned down between each lobe, and lightening the cam pulley too. *I've removed about 10 lbs from an engine block by grinding the entire thing down and cutting off every protrusion that didn't help me make power...*Big-valve ported head with lightweight springs and retainers typically weighs 5-7 lbs less than stock! *aluminum radiator *very lightweight wheels, and modestly sized tires *on a GT, the aftermarket fiberglass leaf spring weight 6.5 lbs instead of 17-18 lbs *tubular sway bars in lieu of solid *Check out the 'Dyna-bat', it weighs 13.5 lbs! Not too expensive either. *You'll note the crossmember in this photo has been swiss-cheesed a bit, I managed to save 8 lbs: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3229/...85288053_b.jpg *Rear axles can be turned/lightened a bit if you're not making much power. *Steering columns typically weigh a bunch and can be modified to reduce weight. *aluminum master cylinder w/o brake booster saves some weight *aluminum calipers are much lighter, 2.5 lbs each for Wilwood Dynalite vs/ 8 lbs each for stock Opel cast iron. *We used to lighten the front hubs on our circle track cars on a lathe *Get good at making composites or fabricating parts from aluminum... *Header has been mentioned already, but making it from 316 thinwall stainless helps even more. And the same goes with the exhaust, either thinner high grade stainless or titanium can knock HUGE weight from the exhaust system. I picked up a titanium 3" exhaust from a Subaru once, it weighed 8 lbs including the muffler! *My Manta racecar has a simple aluminum dashboard with plastic aircraft-style Westach gauges. The entire dash WITH all 8 gauges weighs less than the stock Opel 3-gauge dash insert! Bob

As usuall a really great post, I think everything there is a good suggestion. The ones I highlighted in red are the ones I was going to post when I had time. So what Iam trying to say is...What else is left to lighten now?

[RallyBob]

Originally Posted by gearheadeh So what I am trying to say is...What else is left to lighten now?

Drill holes in everything that doesn't need to hold water...

There are plenty of other places to save weight, it all boils down to the details and cash.

Engine mounts are another place. They are typically very heavy steel and the rubber mounts weigh a lot too. Kadett C engine mount brackets are aluminum for example.

On my old hillclimb car I gutted a stock Manta door from 62 lbs to 14 lbs. It still opened and closed, but with no glass and no door seals it's not for foul weather! I skinned the exterior with aluminum. Ever notice how simple a Manta door skin really is? Only two body lines to bend, the radius will occur naturally when you attach the skin to the inner door shell.

Go with aluminum coil-overs. The stock coil springs are large and heavy, and the stock shocks are steel. If the car is light enough overall, you might not even need sway bars if the spring rates are correct.

Aftermarket steering wheels can be very light (Momo, Sparco, OMP racing wheels, etc). On a GT, make aluminum hinges for the doors once the doors are gutted. The hinges on a GT weigh 22 lbs!

Just have to get creative...

[Aardvaark]

What about helium in the tires?
Wouldn't the reduce unsprung wt?

[Redskinsjbs]

Originally Posted by Aardvaark What about helium in the tires? Wouldn't the reduce unsprung wt?

Well yeah, but not at all significantly! it would amass to just a few grams. I think that pure nitrogen would be better in tires just because of its temperature stability.

Bob - I really like that Swiss-cheese cross member. I would NEVER want it on my car, but just think about how cool that actually is!